Author Topic: New Workstation Rig  (Read 1329 times)

Offline radionerd

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New Workstation Rig
« on: September 14, 2011, 07:57:30 AM »
After running around with the same hardware for nearly 5 years straight, I finally decided to break down and build a new system. It was not cheap and I'm still not quite finished with it.

$180.00   MSI 990FXA-GD80 AM3+ Mainboard
$150.00   Phenom II X6 1075T 3.0GHz
$100.00   16GB Patriot Sector 5 DDR3 1600MHz Quad Channel Kit
$100.00   Diamond AMD Radeon HD 6670 XOC Edition
xxxxxxx   eVGA nVidia GeForce 8800GS
$70.00     32GB Corsair Nova Solid State Drive
xxxxxxx   1TB Western Digital Green Hard Drive
xxxxxxx   750GB Seagate Hard Drive
xxxxxxx   LG Blu-ray ReWriter
xxxxxxx   Generic Lightscribe DVD Burner
$80.00     Cooler Master GX 750W 80+ PSU
$85.00     NZXT Classic H2
$100.00   Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Estimated total: $865.00

Getting sustained 30 FPS on World of Warcraft in ultra settings: Priceless.


As with any new system, I'm still working out the major bugs. When I first pieced her together, the board would barely POST. I spent about 20 minutes trying different card and RAM slots before realizing it needed a BIOS update. After 3 tries, I was able to get into the BIOS and flash the new version over. Since then, it works fine.

I was a little wary about doing the whole dual graphics cards from different vendors setup, but it actually works perfectly in Windows 7 without a hitch. I'm not doing Eyefinity or any 3D stuff yet, so my secondary monitor is plugged into the nVidia card. I think that bypassed the PhysX lockout that nVidia has in their drivers. Both are running just fine with the current official drivers from AMD and nVidia. CoreAVC has access to all 96 CUDA cores and decodes the entire stream on the card.

Installing Windows 7 Ultimate was easy, too. I've never owned a SSD before, so it's my first time. I've read up on some best practices for SSD performance and longevity. The core operating system is installed to the SSD while the bulk of the programs are on the 1TB drive. Most of the user storage is in that drive, as well. I now have to be wary of installing programs and just flying through with the default settings as I need to think, "Do I need speed for this application?", "Is this too big for the SSD?". Resetting the environment variables to redirect to the 1TB drive was a bit of a pain and consisted of many reboots. Linux makes this shit easy by having you do it at install time. Windows and NTFS are fully capable of that type of setup, but it is almost impossible to reconfigure protected areas of the filesystem using NTFS mount folders. One thing that was not mentioned in any of the forums was the system Hibernation file. It is as big as your RAM capacity; 16GB in my case. That's half of my SSD!. There is no way to move it to the 1TB drive. But, since this is a desktop and will have a dedicated power source, there is no real reason to even use hibernation over standby or the good-old-fashioned shut down.

I will need to replace the stock cooler on the 1075T. While it is efficient enough to keep the CPU running at a nice 31 degrees while idling, it is still really loud. All I have to do is flip the switch on my cases top panel to cut the RPMs to the three case fans and the CPU cooler starts to rev up like a Boeing 747. I bought the case so that she would be virtually silent and that I could sleep without having to listen to the drone of fans all night.

That third hard drive I have is going to be a permanent backup drive. It will keep a current copy of the SSD so that ifwhen that SSD does fail, I'll be able to restore it right onto a new one. The case has a nice slot on the top for putting an internal drive in for temporary storage, but it is not cooled and that 750GB heated up real quick. I'll probably just throw in the tower.

My 30FPS World of Warcraft benchmark is a bit of an exaggeration. I based it on playing a new Blood Elf character leveled to 12 using the highest possible settings in the graphics menu. I did get 30 FPS in many of the areas. Some areas dropped down to 23FPS. I ended up bottlenecking on the graphics card. I guess an HD 6670 doesn't cut it for 60FPS highest-quality gaming. But, I didn't buy the card for that reason. I bought it because it was the cheapest solution for 30-bit color output and has some of the best performance in games. The cheapest 30-bit color card from nVidia is the Quattro 2000(D) which costs about $450 and blows when it comes to games. I'll most likely buy a new nVidia card when they come out and I get my 30-bit monitor. For now, I'll just drop the Anisotropic filtering and multisampling down a few notches since it doesn't look too different but runs at nearly twice the speed.

I haven't tried encoding on it yet, but I have a guess it will go much faster than the Athlon II X4 645 that's in my server right now.

My wish list for Christmas: An AMD Bulldozer 8120 with the most efficient cooler possible.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 09:21:14 AM »
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 09:22:45 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Stsin

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 09:52:16 AM »
Nice price, seeing that you are planning on upgrading to the Bulldozer when it gets released.  Otherwise, it may have been worth spending the extra for the latest Intel for your encoding needs.

Though I use WD Caviar Black drives, my data is stored on multiple Samsung 2TB HD204UI.  The best and one of the cheapest green drives for data needs, IMO.

As for WoW, turn down the shadows.


Offline AceHigh

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 10:35:26 AM »
Windows OS is sure as hell not cheap when it is not sold as OEM. Good choice on the 64bit, we customers have to move away from 32bit ASAP, so that developers will have more incentive to make programs/games for 64bit.
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Offline TMRNetShark

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 01:14:41 PM »
Windows OS is sure as hell not cheap when it is not sold as OEM. Good choice on the 64bit, we customers have to move away from 32bit ASAP, so that developers will have more incentive to make programs/games for 64bit.

They really don't yet? O.o

I would definitely say that 75% of the PC gaming crowd has already moved to 64-bit... maybe when Windows 8 comes around.

Offline fohfoh

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 03:55:53 AM »
Windows OS is sure as hell not cheap when it is not sold as OEM. Good choice on the 64bit, we customers have to move away from 32bit ASAP, so that developers will have more incentive to make programs/games for 64bit.

They really don't yet? O.o

I would definitely say that 75% of the PC gaming crowd has already moved to 64-bit... maybe when Windows 8 comes around.

True. Because you have to be fucktarded if you're trying to run Crysis with 2GB RAM.

32 GB might be a little bit tiny for a boot drive. Depends how you use it though. On a standard drive, I rake up somewhere close to 25GB based on OS. I don't know how far I'd go if I began loading more programs onto it.

I picked up a kingston SSD NOW 100 for 90 bucks about a month ago. Makes my old C2D look like a retard. xD Even an SSD without the highest specs is a hell of a lot better than the conventional drives. :)
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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 10:25:25 PM »
Windows OS is sure as hell not cheap when it is not sold as OEM. Good choice on the 64bit, we customers have to move away from 32bit ASAP, so that developers will have more incentive to make programs/games for 64bit.

They really don't yet? O.o

I would definitely say that 75% of the PC gaming crowd has already moved to 64-bit... maybe when Windows 8 comes around.
True. Because you have to be fucktarded if you're trying to run Crysis with 2GB RAM.

32 GB might be a little bit tiny for a boot drive. Depends how you use it though. On a standard drive, I rake up somewhere close to 25GB based on OS. I don't know how far I'd go if I began loading more programs onto it.

I picked up a kingston SSD NOW 100 for 90 bucks about a month ago. Makes my old C2D look like a retard. xD Even an SSD without the highest specs is a hell of a lot better than the conventional drives. :)
50 and 60 GB isn't enough for your primary OS partition - I realized that mistake few years ago but I'm so lazy to switch to a bigger hard drive. The HDD where the OS is located is divided into 4 partitions, one of them belongs to the OS. I shouldn't have divided it and should have used the full 200 GB for it. I only install mandatory programs on it. All games are installed on a completely separate HDD and partition (faster speed) to load up games and lessen pressure on the main HDD with the OS.

That SSD stuff is making me drool. I want to get a 120 GB at minimum.


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Offline fohfoh

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 11:51:03 PM »
How the hell do you get 120GB for an OS install alone? WTF are you putting up like 80GB of your drive as a page file or something?
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2011, 05:18:45 AM »
^ page file or virtual memory, w.e. isnt a good idea on an SSD, it`ll wear it out alot faster.

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Offline TMRNetShark

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2011, 12:35:33 PM »
^ page file or virtual memory, w.e. isnt a good idea on an SSD, it`ll wear it out alot faster.

What? Why not? An SSD is just like RAM, the only difference being the that I/O interface is a little different. :P

Offline kitamesume

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2011, 12:52:01 PM »
^ try asking ppl why defragmenting a SSD is a no no, should get you your answers.

Edit: well there is still a debate about setting page file on SSD is a "no" or "yes".
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 01:39:23 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline rkruger

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2011, 02:04:54 PM »
What? Why not? An SSD is just like RAM, the only difference being the that I/O interface is a little different. :P
What gave you that idea? The techology is completely different.
Most SSDs are based on non-volatile NAND-flash technology, that can only handle a limited number of writes before it wears out.
Most RAM today is volatile DRAM, that uses capacitors to keep the bits in a known state until they lose power.

Offline kureshii

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2011, 03:28:32 PM »
What? Why not? An SSD is just like RAM, the only difference being the that I/O interface is a little different. :P
._.

Offline bloody000

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 12:50:44 AM »
Windows OS is sure as hell not cheap when it is not sold as OEM. Good choice on the 64bit, we customers have to move away from 32bit ASAP, so that developers will have more incentive to make programs/games for 64bit.

They really don't yet? O.o

I would definitely say that 75% of the PC gaming crowd has already moved to 64-bit... maybe when Windows 8 comes around.
True. Because you have to be fucktarded if you're trying to run Crysis with 2GB RAM.

32 GB might be a little bit tiny for a boot drive. Depends how you use it though. On a standard drive, I rake up somewhere close to 25GB based on OS. I don't know how far I'd go if I began loading more programs onto it.

I picked up a kingston SSD NOW 100 for 90 bucks about a month ago. Makes my old C2D look like a retard. xD Even an SSD without the highest specs is a hell of a lot better than the conventional drives. :)
50 and 60 GB isn't enough for your primary OS partition - I realized that mistake few years ago but I'm so lazy to switch to a bigger hard drive. The HDD where the OS is located is divided into 4 partitions, one of them belongs to the OS. I shouldn't have divided it and should have used the full 200 GB for it. I only install mandatory programs on it. All games are installed on a completely separate HDD and partition (faster speed) to load up games and lessen pressure on the main HDD with the OS.

That SSD stuff is making me drool. I want to get a 120 GB at minimum.

Don't tell me you are still using "my whatever" to store files.
All you have to do is study it out. Just study it out.

Offline TMRNetShark

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 01:56:34 AM »
What? Why not? An SSD is just like RAM, the only difference being the that I/O interface is a little different. :P
._.

Clearly no one got my sarcasm....  ::)

ANYWAYS, Life Endurance on an SSD today is meaningless. Why?

Cause SSDs today have a write endurance of well over 5 million write cycles... That means if you constantly "writing" on your SSD, you would never be able to write enough on your SSD for it to fail in your computer's natural life. (or so they say... continue reading)

Why?

Your harddrive doesn't write constantly, but it writes a lot, right? In an SSD, when you (re)write even 1 bit, you are essentially rewriting an entire block, right? So a 256 KB block is changed all to just change 1 bit... a waste it would seem, right? You just took up one of those "endurance" cycles away because of that. Let's look at your average SSD that has a endurance "life cycle" of 3 million. That's 3 million times that your SSD can write before blocks start going boom. What if you were writing at the constant speed that an SSD can write at until it dies? That's 3 million times the capacity of the harddrive (so let's say 64 GBs) and let's say that 70 % of those blocks last until the "3 million life cycle endurance". At the constant writing rate of 165 MB/s, that 70 % of those blocks will last 26 years. That's if 1 bit was being changed or the entire harddrive was constantly being written on day in and day out for 26 years.

"Yeah, TMR? Then why are there so many examples of people's SSD's failing less than a year after they were bought?"

Well, to answer your question... It's either that SSD companies are lying to us about having write cycle endurance limits in the millions (where we thought the technology was at) and the reality is that the write cycle limits are only as far as 100,000 write cycle endurance (which puts it at a theoretical ~314 days limit before it goes bust under the same conditions as the 26+ years example). OR "that if a failure ever does occur, it will not occur in the flash chip itself but in the controller."

So theoretically, with the numbers we are given... SSD's SHOULD last 20+ years. What we are actually seeing is quite different though... and I doubt everyone's "SSD's controller" is failing because they used it wrong.  ::)

Would I buy an SSD? I'm not convinced one bit by the technology.

Offline kureshii

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 03:05:03 AM »
ANYWAYS, Life Endurance on an SSD today is meaningless. Why?

Cause SSDs today have a write endurance of well over 5 million write cycles... That means if you constantly "writing" on your SSD, you would never be able to write enough on your SSD for it to fail in your computer's natural life. (or so they say... continue reading)

Why?

Your harddrive doesn't write constantly, but it writes a lot, right? In an SSD, when you (re)write even 1 bit, you are essentially rewriting an entire block, right? So a 256 KB block is changed all to just change 1 bit... a waste it would seem, right? You just took up one of those "endurance" cycles away because of that. Let's look at your average SSD that has a endurance "life cycle" of 3 million. That's 3 million times that your SSD can write before blocks start going boom. What if you were writing at the constant speed that an SSD can write at until it dies? That's 3 million times the capacity of the harddrive (so let's say 64 GBs) and let's say that 70 % of those blocks last until the "3 million life cycle endurance". At the constant writing rate of 165 MB/s, that 70 % of those blocks will last 26 years. That's if 1 bit was being changed or the entire harddrive was constantly being written on day in and day out for 26 years.

"Yeah, TMR? Then why are there so many examples of people's SSD's failing less than a year after they were bought?"

Well, to answer your question... It's either that SSD companies are lying to us about having write cycle endurance limits in the millions (where we thought the technology was at) and the reality is that the write cycle limits are only as far as 100,000 write cycle endurance (which puts it at a theoretical ~314 days limit before it goes bust under the same conditions as the 26+ years example). OR "that if a failure ever does occur, it will not occur in the flash chip itself but in the controller."

So theoretically, with the numbers we are given... SSD's SHOULD last 20+ years. What we are actually seeing is quite different though... and I doubt everyone's "SSD's controller" is failing because they used it wrong.  ::)

Would I buy an SSD? I'm not convinced one bit by the technology.
… I hope this is more of your so-called “sarcasm”, because if I facedesk any harder I’m not going to have a face any longer.

Offline TMRNetShark

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 03:08:10 AM »
(click to show/hide)
… I hope this is more of your so-called “sarcasm”, because if I facedesk any harder I’m not going to have a face any longer.

About 95% of it was sarcasm... The link is the only non-sarcastic remark (seeing as how it really IS a debate).

Offline kitamesume

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2011, 06:28:59 AM »
^ you first need to confirm if that "millions of write cycles" is per NAND-Flash Chip or the whole SSD. if its the whole then its too little.

Edit: still though, even if its the whole's limit, it`ll last 20 years.

formula:
per disk: ([Write Endurance] x [Capacity]) / [Write Speed] = wear out in seconds of continuous use.
per flash: (([Write Endurance] x [Capacity]) x [NAND-Flash #]) / [Write Speed] = wear out in seconds of continuous use.

example per disk: ([5,000,000 Writes] x [61440MegaByte(60GB)]) / [500MB/s (Sata3 has it good)] = 614,400,000 seconds of continuous use or 19.48 years.

PS: continuous use i meant running the SSD @ it's rated speed for 24/7.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 06:58:05 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline NaRu

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Re: New Workstation Rig
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2011, 04:20:48 PM »
The thing that fails in SSD is the controller, not the write endurance. I had a SSD fail on me twice because the controller failed and Bios couldnt see it anymore.