Author Topic: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer  (Read 8482 times)

Online Tiffanys

  • Member
  • Posts: 7745
  • real female girl ojō-sama
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2011, 06:34:49 PM »
I hope they're successful because competition will drive prices down with their main competitor - Intel, and a free market is more healthy for the people than a monopoly.

As for me, I'm sticking with Intel.

I wasn't all that impressed with their world record breaking 8Ghz, whatever, liquid nitrogen/helium stunt either. Though I hear iBuyPower are going to try to make those available to the public? But getting those kinds of speeds without extreme cooling is impossible at this point. They'd have to have a mini fridge for a case, even standard liquid cooling wouldn't come close to doing that...

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 7223
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2011, 07:20:18 PM »
^ i wanna see ivy bridge's i3 start at 75$ and i5 at 150$ ::)

Haruhi Dance | EMO | OLD SETs | ^ I know how u feel | Click sig to Enlarge

Offline TMRNetShark

  • Member
  • Posts: 4134
  • I thumps up my own youtube comments.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2011, 12:28:51 PM »
^ i wanna see ivy bridge's i3 start at 75$ and i5 at 150$ ::)

That would never really happen. Intel knows their place... so they will keep it.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 7223
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2011, 01:05:55 PM »
^ unless the bulldozer's i3 equivalent is prized at 80$, then intel will either lower their price or suck their thumbs while throwing lawsuits XD

Haruhi Dance | EMO | OLD SETs | ^ I know how u feel | Click sig to Enlarge

Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2011, 12:11:42 PM »
It looks like x264 benefits alot from bulldozer's new instructions (FMA4 and XOP). FMA4 and XOP are new instructions from AMD.

http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4501020&postcount=562
http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4502029&postcount=585

full IRC logs: http://akuvian.org/src/x264/freenode-x264dev.log.bz2

(click to show/hide)

Offline ColdFission

  • Member
  • Posts: 77
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2011, 03:53:55 PM »
Yeah, read some of these yesterday and got me pretty excited. Can't wait to upgrade from my E7300 @ 3.33 Ghz lol.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 7223
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2011, 04:54:34 PM »
^ i`m betting a penny that the 2cores... er... 2modules starts at 200$ =D, i wouldn't wanna grab something with less than 2modules...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 04:55:13 PM by kitamesume »

Haruhi Dance | EMO | OLD SETs | ^ I know how u feel | Click sig to Enlarge

Offline ColdFission

  • Member
  • Posts: 77
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2011, 06:02:41 PM »
^ i`m betting a penny that the 2cores... er... 2modules starts at 200$ =D, i wouldn't wanna grab something with less than 2modules...

Well, the top end FX chip, the FX-8150 is reported to cost $245:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-FX-Series-Prices-Leaked-FX-8150-Sells-for-245-178-Euros-222746.shtml

That's a pretty damn good deal if true in my view. Expect chips in the lower performance tiers to cost less than that if leaked prices are to be believed.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 7223
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2011, 06:27:55 PM »
hoh, then i'll offset my bet to starting at 150$ =P well with sandy bridge's locked multipliers intel would be having a real pain in the ass when it comes to price per performance.

edit: awyeah sandy bridge celies for 50$ way to eat their own atom segment XD underclock+undervolting these would insta beat atom in terms of performance/watts/price. on a side note, they should've just named this sandy bridge atom and made it all power saving junkies =/
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 06:46:13 PM by kitamesume »

Haruhi Dance | EMO | OLD SETs | ^ I know how u feel | Click sig to Enlarge

Offline AnimeJanai

  • Member
  • Posts: 2474
  • http://anonym.to/?
    • Doujinshi Database & Lexicon
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2011, 12:09:11 AM »
Is AMD's Bulldozer going to implement an involuntary remote-control disable feature like Intel's Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, etc, already has? 


Offline nstgc

  • Member
  • Posts: 7758
    • http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2011, 12:40:48 AM »
I'm sure they will. I have no real evidence to provide support other than "why wouldn't they". Its a system of control they can legitimately market as a feature.

Offline kureshii

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 4485
  • May typeset edited light novels if asked nicely.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2011, 12:51:29 AM »
Is AMD's Bulldozer going to implement an involuntary remote-control disable feature like Intel's Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, etc, already has?
Unlikely, considering:

1) AMD isn’t really targeting the enterprise administration market, and this is an enterprise-level feature. (AMD vPro, anyone?)
2) AMD products do not have support for Intel AMT features.
3) This is a chipset feature, not CPU feature, and hence is implemented on the chipset, which has little to do with Bulldozer.
4) Bulldozer is using 9-series chipset, which is targeted at consumers and doesn’t support Intel AMT. Even on Intel chipsets, AMT is supported only on Q-series chipsets since Centrino 2.
5) Even if AMD decides to start implementing AMT support, they’d likely go for more useful features first, such as hardware KVM. And on the CPU, better hardware encryption performance, since the remote shutdown feature does not stop an attacker simply removing the hard disk and accessing it via other means.



But back on topic, 6 more days before we see useful reviews (hopefully). We’ll know for sure then.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 12:54:17 AM by kureshii »

Offline AnimeJanai

  • Member
  • Posts: 2474
  • http://anonym.to/?
    • Doujinshi Database & Lexicon
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2011, 02:12:40 PM »
The future Ivy Bridge (and late model SandyBridge) Intel chips also have hardware to implement "Intel Insider" which is an encrypted secure transmission AND execution path for delivering valued content (streaming video or discrete movies) from an online renter, leasor, or seller to the specific CPU device.  I have not read anything about software being purchased and delivered this way, but it sounds like this would be something vendors like Adobe would want for their Photoshop software.  Since each CPU has its own hardware serial number, the delivered item can also be cryptologically packed to decompress via hardware only and execute via hardware only.  Since instructions will exist that only access hardware registers inside the protected encrypted secure hardware, external software hacks or external emulators will fail for the wide variety of users.  Each hack would have to be individually performed because the encrypted item is customized at the server end.  So, it will be good for delivery of software such as hollywood media on pay per view or subscription basis.

Added to this is the involuntary remote kill-swtch feature that is part of the VPRO features in both mobile and desktop chips.  California police had been seeking remote kill switches for automobiles that were being chased or disabled during an official stop, but that had not met with car maker approval.  With Intel chips in the car, perhaps the police could just stop the car this way....

The Sandy Bridge chips with the VPRO features will also be able to involuntarily delete material from the hard drive.  While this is desirable if the PC is stolen, it might be useful as part of the Patriot Act as well.  Future ultrabook type laptops are speculated to have non-removable integral system drives for the thinnest models which will make this CPU feature of significant use.  Ultrabook is a trademarked term by intel describing a future class of powerful notebooks suitable as desktop replacements but also retain ease of portability as a key requirement (thin and lightweight).  Ultrabooks may use i3, i5, and i7 type processors.

http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2011/01/intel_insider_-_what_is_it_no.php
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/293845-28-sandy#
http://www.eutimes.net/2010/12/remote-kill-switch-added-to-intel-sandy-bridge/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369110,00.asp

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2109363/intel-windows-ultrabook
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2109352/intel-looks-forward-ivy-bridge-ultrabooks
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/2109848/intel-extends-influence-cpu-realm

Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2011, 02:24:33 PM »
The future Ivy Bridge (and late model SandyBridge) Intel chips also have hardware to implement "Intel Insider" which is an encrypted secure transmission AND execution path for delivering valued content (streaming video or discrete movies) from an online renter, leasor, or seller to the specific CPU device.  I have not read anything about software being purchased and delivered this way, but it sounds like this would be something vendors like Adobe would want for their Photoshop software.  Since each CPU has its own hardware serial number, the delivered item can also be cryptologically packed to decompress via hardware only and execute via hardware only.  Since instructions will exist that only access hardware registers inside the protected encrypted secure hardware, external software hacks or external emulators will fail for the wide variety of users.  Each hack would have to be individually performed because the encrypted item is customized at the server end.  So, it will be good for delivery of software such as hollywood media on pay per view or subscription basis.

Added to this is the involuntary remote kill-swtch feature that is part of the VPRO features in both mobile and desktop chips.  California police had been seeking remote kill switches for automobiles that were being chased or disabled during an official stop, but that had not met with car maker approval.  With Intel chips in the car, perhaps the police could just stop the car this way....

The Sandy Bridge chips with the VPRO features will also be able to involuntarily delete material from the hard drive.  While this is desirable if the PC is stolen, it might be useful as part of the Patriot Act as well.  Future ultrabook type laptops are speculated to have non-removable integral system drives for the thinnest models which will make this CPU feature of significant use.  Ultrabook is a trademarked term by intel describing a future class of powerful notebooks suitable as desktop replacements but also retain ease of portability as a key requirement (thin and lightweight).  Ultrabooks may use i3, i5, and i7 type processors.

http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2011/01/intel_insider_-_what_is_it_no.php
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/293845-28-sandy#
http://www.eutimes.net/2010/12/remote-kill-switch-added-to-intel-sandy-bridge/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369110,00.asp

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2109363/intel-windows-ultrabook
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2109352/intel-looks-forward-ivy-bridge-ultrabooks
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/2109848/intel-extends-influence-cpu-realm
Is this the same tech they use for those CPUs upgradeable via coupons?

Offline kureshii

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 4485
  • May typeset edited light novels if asked nicely.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2011, 03:26:28 PM »
Is this the same tech they use for those CPUs upgradeable via coupons?
Nope, that's just hardware locking of resources. Intel Insider is an encryption path implemented in hardware, while AMT is largely hardware implementation of enterprise monitoring and remote control features. Although CPU-locking is in all likelihood done in hardware (i.e. flashing required to unlock chip [insert google link here]), so I guess in that sense it is the “same” technology.





These past few posts are lolsome. All the tinfoil hat paranoia over hardware remote wake/shutdown, and nobody even cares that Intel AMT on Q-series chipsets also have hardware KVM?

And if you’re going to link articles on AMT, at least link some read-worthy ones, like one of TH’s rare useful coverage features.

inb4 Intel fully implements the linux kernel in hardware! [Insert cool pic of chip circuitry with a black box marked “IntelOS™”]

P.S. you know, if Bulldozer had hardware implementation of such enterprise-level features, it would be a steal at its stated price-points ;)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 03:44:24 PM by kureshii »

Offline ColdFission

  • Member
  • Posts: 77
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2011, 04:27:09 PM »
Some tidbits I found lying around:
http://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/l2g82/im_just_gonna_say_it/

Quote
I'm sitting in on a press briefing for AMD Bulldozer right now, and while everything is embargoed, I will say this: If you're building a gaming PC, this is going to be the way to go.
Edit 1 We're gonna be covering the normal stuff (Benchmarks, etc.) but we're also going to talk about value proposition against Intel as well as some of the exciting new advancements that Bulldozer brings to the table. On October 12th, 12:01am CST.
Edit 2 "We" means Icrontic. I'm not trying to shill my site or anything; we do have a Bulldozer on the testbench, we sat in on a press briefing tonight, and we will have a launch-day piece about it. Of course, you'll also find reviews and other awesome content at [H], AnandTech, TechReport, and so on. Please consider us in your content rotation, we're a small but very, very dedicated team who have been doing this since 2000. Thanks!

And supposedly leaked "review" of the FX-8150:
http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwebcache.googleusercontent.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcmweb.nl%2Fhardware%2Fcomponenten%2Fprocessoren%2Ffx-8150&act=url


Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2011, 04:28:40 PM »
Nope, that's just hardware locking of resources. Intel Insider is an encryption path implemented in hardware
I asked the above question because unlocking those extra features will need some form of encrypted transmission/execution. otherwise, someone out there will make a "crack" to do the unlocks for free ;)

Offline kureshii

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 4485
  • May typeset edited light novels if asked nicely.
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2011, 05:18:12 PM »
I asked the above question because unlocking those extra features will need some form of encrypted transmission/execution. otherwise, someone out there will make a "crack" to do the unlocks for free ;)
Wait until someone REs https://retailupgrades.intel.com/Page.aspx?Name=Upgrade ? :3





The NDA only allows leaks of benchmarks against Nehalem huh. Where are reliable FPS numbers for BD vs SB?

I’ll keep waiting for Oct 12. All this NDAing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Offline AnimeJanai

  • Member
  • Posts: 2474
  • http://anonym.to/?
    • Doujinshi Database & Lexicon
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2011, 09:21:21 PM »
Quote
These past few posts are lolsome. All the tinfoil hat paranoia over hardware remote wake/shutdown, and nobody even cares that Intel AMT on Q-series chipsets also have hardware KVM?
The problem with using the "tinfoil hat card" is that it is overused.  That card was used with all sorts of past things from economics to legal situations that only much later on blew up and became serious problems thus showing, albeit later, that the tinfoil hat card is typically used by the proverbial Ostrich sticking its head into the sand to avoid seeing something it doesn't like.


One thing that history shows us is that if something is possible, greedy people or businesses will try to obtain or maintain prosperity by abusing it as much as they can.  Because something like that needs little foresight into the future, that is very much a truism easily realized and thus acknowledged by many. 

Less obvious, but no less historically true are laws deliberately passed to have deliberately created (but plausibly deniable) unforeseen applications.  A classic example is the No Child Left Behind Act which increased the median gap for the resultant product of the education system.  On paper, it sounds good.  On monetary payouts, both good schools and poor ones received more funding so that sounds good looking only at the finance aspect.  But the actual product coming out meant the good schools turned out more and better students while the poor schools turned out students whose median education achievement was lower than before.  Another situation arose when various beef producing usa companies were going to test 100% of their animals for "mad cow" prions.  The bush republican administration told them no, but the companies were going to do it anyways, so the gov't then threatened to find/jail them because revealing statistics was going to create a panic that would damage the profitability of the beef industry.  This reverse application of law was good for business profit, but bad for the citizens consuming the beef. 

Do we have a government of the people?   By the people?   For the people?   Do laws like the Patriot Act represent democracy or fascism?  While there are other abused laws, there is also the ACTA treaty looming.  ACTA will eventually be ratified by all founding members, but the EU is trying to use up the 18 month window before ratifying it since its society is more liberal about certain personal freedoms affected by ACTA than is the USA.  The latest version technically creates a de facto situation where businesses can establish the de facto level of fines and de facto punishment levels.  While direct wording doing that is not be allowable, cleverly worded requirements will allow de facto situations to exist.  Thus, the only thing left to stop that would be that each country has to develop their own versions of laws to implement ACTA on their soil.   It doesn't take much foresight to see that ACTA can easily be used to be an anti-porn law without any rewriting.  That is because virtually every downloadable ecchi or hentai anime, manga, doujinshi is a copyright violation.   Because ACTA empowers local police to enforce laws, localities that make most of their money from traffic speed traps will have a new lucrative method of making money by simply trolling the connections at the local ISPs (which have to cooperate or lose the more restrictive ACTA safe harbor) and finding people downloading copyrighted material.  Since it would be the police doing it, the chain of evidence is strong and makes getting a warrant much easier.  Once material such as MP3, scanlated print media, videos, fansubs, software programs, and hacking tools such as key generators are found in the search, fines can be levied for each which would profit the local government.  Bush Senior and the republican party sponsored and passed various revisions to certain applications of bankruptcy law which makes declaring bankruptcy to avoid court-ordered payments hard to do.  So it's possible these fines would force you into bankruptcy and then persist after bankruptcy.  This is good for local gov'ts as it doesn't let scoundrels get away from treaty fines.

Etcetera.  It may be a tinfoil hat right now, but the future will show more abuses as more laws become enacted in hardware.  Who was it thinking inside the box that said laws can only be written on paper?

Offline ColdFission

  • Member
  • Posts: 77
Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2011, 01:09:19 AM »
Photos of slides leaked

Some of the slides in the link look pretty much like the ones that were leaked by donanimhaber a few weeks earlier:

http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/galerileri/AMD-Bulldozer-FX-resmi-test-sonuclari.htm

However, if you compare some of the identical slides from the two links, you will see differences that can be missed at first glance.

EDIT: It seems the first link in my post has the content removed, oh well. Got until Wednesday for hard numbers to come out.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 02:18:02 AM by ColdFission »