Author Topic: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer  (Read 8497 times)

Offline bloody000

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2011, 09:32:58 AM »
Lesson: don't hype your stuff to heaven and back if you know it's not super awesome. Which you do, AMD.

Lame. oh well it's not like my x6 is obsolete or anything.
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Offline kureshii

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2011, 10:04:38 AM »


Courtesy of TR comments.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2011, 10:13:31 AM »
wait, remembering what intel promised about ivy bridge...
Quote
Sandy Bridge
    Up to 17% more CPU performance clock-for-clock compared to Lynnfield processors[17]
    Around twice the integrated graphics performance compared to Clarkdale's (12 EUs comparison).

Ivy Bridge
Intel's performance targets (compared to Sandy Bridge)
    20% increase in CPU performance.
    Up to 60% increase in integrated graphics performance.

and seeing this...


plus remembering ivy bridge should be out by next year... i`m kind of in... you know, if even AMD would get it through the whole 4year course.

edit: funny thing is that, both i5 2500K and i7 2600K can reach 5Ghz on a good air cooling. that should point it to i5 2500K > FX 8150? pft...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 10:26:52 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline kureshii

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2011, 11:16:23 AM »
Small note: Intel revised their performance improvements to 6-8%. the 20% increase in CPU performance was either misinterpreted or put in my some other previewer during IDF; quite possibly the latter, since what was said at IDF was "When Intel introduced its 22nm tri-gate transistors Intel claimed that it could see an 18% increase in performance at 1V compared to its 32nm process."



It is likely Intel could just lower operating voltage while keeping performance mostly the same. Ivy Bridge is a 'tick' release and we should not be expecting very much performance improvement over Sandy Bridge; just getting 6-8% more overall performance at lower operating voltage and power is pretty nice though.

What excites me more about Ivy Bridge is the promise of 35W quad-core i7s; we might potentially see the dual-core parts drop to 25W TDP or thereabouts without having to go to lower voltage ranges. By the time Haswell rolls round, we might be seeing the quad-core desktop parts at 45W TDP, with "lower-power" parts (corresponding to the S- and T-models for Sandy Bridge). going to 20W TDP or so. That's definitely eating into the low-power market, which means Brazos won't be unchallenged for long—Intel pulling the Atom product line was a step in this direction. [my bad; Intel isn't pulling the Atom line, just the independent dev team. Core and Atom will be developed under a unified design archi, which means we'll hopefully see more Core-like performance on Atoms.]

As for graphics,
Quote
As a result Intel is expecting a 60% increase in 3DMark Vantage scores (Performance Preset) [from GT2] and a 30% increase in 3DMark '06 scores. IVB GT1 on the other hand will only see performance increase by 10 - 20%.
That 60% estimate applies only to the 'higher-end' Intel IB IGP.




I'm afraid AMD has already stumbled on the first column of that block; Performance-per-Watt (PPW because I'm lazy to type) is hardly up compared to Thuban. When Intel released the P4 with eerily similar prescriptions (software has to be tuned for this architecture for us to see improvements [...] this is a 'forward-looking' architecture), they were not so quick to acknowledge their mistake; it was an 8-year mistake which eventually led to nice things (Conroe). I sure hope AMD isn't going to make us wait that long ... if they can even afford to wait that long with the slim profit margins on their products. I don't expect them to match Intel anymore, but they're going to have to show us that 10% PPW improvement if we are to trust that chart. In the meantime, lay off the mushrooms and the delusions, AMD, and either get a proper marketing team, or stop mentioning Intel in your PR.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 06:44:58 AM by kureshii »

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2011, 11:32:02 AM »
^ oh then i should be expecting at least 10% increase in performance on the same voltages and power then XD
still though, if AMD's current bulldozer is about 10-20% behind sandy bridge with piledriver's advance of 10-15% while ivy bridge promises higher performance/watt with no less than 5% improvement over sandy bridge's. looks too grim for AMD, seriously, just looking at bulldozer's performance/watt is dreadful.

PS: i wonder if bulldozer would even get into the laptop segment, highly doubt it, i wouldn't want a laptop lasting 1hr or less.

lol ivy bridge, i`m more interested about the 60% boost on IGP, and surely they should have fixed the 24p bug by then.

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Offline AceHigh

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2011, 11:53:25 AM »
I loled at AMD's names of their CPUs. What will come after that? The Tunneler? Dragliner?
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2011, 12:07:22 PM »
^piledriver, anand comments made me laugh though, PileDriver dubbed BendOver/ScrewdOver.


edit: Oh! i just noticed their scheme, they wanted to bulldoze their phenom lineup and piledrive them under, steam rolling for a nice finish. after 4years they'll excavate them back to perfection.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:12:39 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Lupin

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2011, 01:57:55 PM »
Courtesy of TR comments.
AHAHA. It's not a bulldozer but a frontloader though ;)

I'm afraid AMD has already stumbled on the first column of that block; Performance-per-Watt (PPW because I'm lazy to type) is hardly up compared to Thuban. When Intel released the P4 with eerily similar prescriptions (software has to be tuned for this architecture for us to see improvements [...] this is a 'forward-looking' architecture), they were not so quick to acknowledge their mistake; it was an 8-year mistake which eventually led to nice things (Conroe). I sure hope AMD isn't going to make us wait that long ... if they can even afford to wait that long with the slim profit margins on their products. I don't expect them to match Intel anymore, but they're going to have to show us that 10% PPW improvement if we are to trust that chart. In the meantime, lay off the mushrooms and the delusions, AMD, and either get a proper marketing team, or stop mentioning Intel in your PR.
This is my thinking as well. AMD has a good track record on improving on existing architectures (Phenom->Phenom II, 2900->3xxx series). I'm hoping they do something similar but at a faster pace.

This is AMD's first "real" new architecture since 1999. For a company whose R&D budget is smaller that its competitor's marketing budget, I'd still say they did a decent job. It's the closest they've been to intel since before the conroe days.

The SKUs available aren't a must buy though. They're quite underwhelming because of the increasing expectations caused by the delays and the impending releases of SB-E and IB. All FX 8xxx SKUs make a 2500K more attractive to me.

I'd probably get a 4xxx bulldozer. Overclocking it seems to be fun.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2011, 02:32:25 PM »
^ if companies manages to release a 40-80$ mobo for BD then the budget end would be viable at least.

is there any 4xxx reviews yet?

edit:
@kureshii
what i`m concerned about is if AMD would manage to live through that roadmap 4years of hell >.> why exactly? if intel loses competition entirely, expect i3s to start at 200$ more or less and say bye-bye AMD CPU and say hello to AMD APU.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 02:40:20 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Lupin

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2011, 03:16:59 PM »
what i`m concerned about is if AMD would manage to live through that roadmap 4years of hell >.> why exactly? if intel loses competition entirely, expect i3s to start at 200$ more or less and say bye-bye AMD CPU and say hello to AMD APU.
Why won't they survive? AMD's second place for most of the company's life. The company's high volume products are selling well. If Interlagos performs well on the server front, that's big money as well. The common misunderstanding is that retail is where the money is. It's not. It's OEMs and servers that keeps the cash flowing. AMD's Llano and bobcat designs addresses the former while Interlagos is aiming for the latter.

Before AMD dies, you'll probably see much less frequent refresh cycles or higher prices for intel products. That is how intel will try to keep AMD alive. Intel doesn't really need AMD but they have to do that to keep the regulators from breaking up the company if AMD disappears.

Offline kureshii

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2011, 03:46:42 PM »
It is unlikely AMD will die. They might simply exit the desktop space if things really get that bad, and focus on enterprise solutions. But Llano seems to be doing relatively okay.

What we’ve seen from today’s reviews is AMD’s flop in the enthusiast space. It’s not an easy market to compete in, since ‘enthusiast’ requirements don’t overlap all that much with enterprise requirements. AMD doesn’t seem to be able to balance the two requirements as successfully as Intel managed to, and I think increasingly what we’ll see is AMD architecting processors for enterprise/server, and then porting them to the enthusiast space whatever their performance will be. The enthusiast market is a pretty niche market, and between enterprise requirements and benchmarker/overclocker requirements I think we all know which they will pick.



As for the 9-series boards, I fail to see what AMD is thinking. I think they managed to pull a really big PR stunt though; how else would you explain how they managed to get third-party motherboard manufacturers to come up with 30 boards for their FX processors alone? That’s plenty of volume for a chip that’s pretty much nothing more than an 8-series functionality-wise, and we’re looking at $60 for a starter 870 and $95 for a starter 970. (H67 boards start at $85 for a similar feature set).

The PhII builds were popular because they were really cheap: We had the 1100T priced similarly to 2500K, and 8-series boards were cheaper than comparable H67 boards. But AMD just turned this around with Bulldozer, so the 8150 is not a compelling option performance-wise or even price-wise now. Those price cuts had better come, because the only way they can force people to switch at these prices would be to retire the Thubans.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2011, 04:02:40 PM »
fair enough, but do note that its not only the enthusiast that are affacted but so is the high and middle-high(where i5-2400 and PhII X4 are), AMD still have plenty to offer on the middle and low end, thankfully(Llano or AthlonII/PhII X2), lowest... well theres the newly appointed E-450.

question: if the FX-8150 just slightly beats a stock i5-2500K then i wonder how'd it compare to the i5-2300 and the likes, would the FX-6xxx be able to compete against the i5-2300?

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Offline kureshii

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2011, 05:01:44 PM »
lol ivy bridge, i`m more interested about the 60% boost on IGP, and surely they should have fixed the 24p bug by then.
I still doubt Ivy Bridge’s IGP will be game-worthy then, but higher resolution and triple-display support is sweet. The 23.976fps-with-UAC issue is also slated to be resolved in Ivy Bridge, so we just need to see if Intel keeps their word.

[edit] In other news, i7-2700K coming out 24 Oct. MSRP $14 more than 2600K, 100MHz higher clock + Turbo. Why does this excite me more than Bulldozer release when I’m not even planning to buy a Sandy Bridge build? ._.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 05:34:38 PM by kureshii »

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2011, 05:47:06 PM »
its because the LGA2011 is coming out next month? which will rape the LGA1366 990X?

doubt bulldozer would even get a match against the 6(12) sandybridge monsters.

Edit: oh hey good news, the lowest end LGA2011 is 294$, the i7-3820 4(8 ), the advantage is that you'll have 40 PCI-E lanes for a quad SLI/CF.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 05:51:53 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline ColdFission

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2011, 06:01:52 PM »
Ah yes, the spin doctors are hard at work for AMD's marketing:

AMD FX Processors Go Head To Head

Lol, comments disabled.

AMD FX Processors Unleashed

Ah yes, the proper lashing that AMD more than deserves.

They got one thing right in their 3 word slogan, Bulldozer for the desktop IS unbelievable; unbelievably down right horrible in performance/watt, performance/dollar, performance (IPC) in general, and has made steps BACKWARDS in all 3 in some bechmarks or barely ahead of the Phenom X6 1100T. Why spend on a $270-$280 (guestimated the FX-8150) CPU when you can get one for less than $200 (current price for a 1100T at NCIX) if you are still on the AM3+ platform. If your upgrading from a previous generation platform from either company, why bother going to the AM3+ platform anyway?

Offline kureshii

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2011, 06:18:31 PM »
“The world’s first 8-core unlocked processor” (that needs 8 cores to match a 4-core locked processor)

They’re just leaving out words ;)

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2011, 07:02:58 PM »
i`m gonna pour soy sauce on AMD if they even attempt to turn bulldozer into fusion APU without fixing bulldozer first... aka trinity?

Edit: first things first, bulldozer atm eats too much power, too high of a TDP to even integrate an IGP -,-

simple solution! reduce the clock speed just like what they did with Llano, oh and do worse than current Llano? sweet~
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 07:11:31 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline ColdFission

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2011, 07:25:10 PM »
i`m gonna pour soy sauce on AMD if they even attempt to turn bulldozer into fusion APU without fixing bulldozer first... aka trinity?

Edit: first things first, bulldozer atm eats too much power, too high of a TDP to even integrate an IGP -,-

simple solution! reduce the clock speed just like what they did with Llano, oh and do worse than current Llano? sweet~

Trinity is supposed to be based on Pile Driver which is really an "enhancement" to Bulldozer. It should fix whatever is broken with Bulldozer, should be faster, but still speculation.

Offline TMRNetShark

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2011, 07:30:45 PM »
“The world’s first 8-core unlocked processor” (that needs 8 cores to match a 4-core locked processor)

They’re just leaving out words ;)

Which just goes to show: Intel can use twice as less cores, 1/3 less material at 1/3 less space, and still use less power... to still beat new AMD CPU. I mean, I used both in the past and today. My old Semprons or Athlons could never really keep up with modern games (of like 2003-2006). Then I got a crappy Intel Dual Core (wasn't even a Core 2 or anything) and that thing has lasted until this very day. I mean, I have an AMD X6 in my other computer... but it still doesn't mean that an i5 that is only $70 more expensive than my AMD X6 just smashes it to bits. But yeah, there is already the limit to how fast a CPU can go... now all we need is more cores. :P

Offline vuzedome

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Re: Your view on AMD's Bulldozer
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2011, 08:50:17 PM »
On paper it looks like 8, but no matter how they word it, it still looks like a 4 to me.
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