Discussion Forums > Technology
Pop Artists Are Made Obsolete
Freedom Kira:
--- Quote from: lapa321 on October 21, 2011, 12:30:07 AM ---Why is the 'u' in umbrella pronouced differently from universe?
--- End quote ---
Prefix "um" vs. "uni."
Ever try reading it "you-mbrella" or "un-iverse"? It sounds stupid.
--- Quote from: Ultra_Magnus on October 21, 2011, 05:37:51 AM ---That is how I understand it too, phonetically Japanese is a very simple language.
--- End quote ---
Werd. There is no universally accepted phonetic system in English like there is in Japanese (even if there is, or if one was introduced, it's not currently taught, so it'd take years to integrate one). We have the alphabet, but unlike Japanese, each letter is not restricted to a particular sound.
xShadow:
--- Quote from: lapa321 on October 21, 2011, 12:50:04 AM ---Googled phonetics and found this
--- Quote ---Eye have a spelling chequer,
It came with my pea sea.
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss Steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
and weight four it two say
Weather Eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid,
It nose bee fore two long,
And Eye can put the error rite -
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no,
Its letter perfect awl the weigh.
My spell chequer tolled me sew.
--- End quote ---
Anybody with a text-to-speech engine on hand? ;D
--- End quote ---
Wasn't hard to read at all, to be honest. Just read each word for its sound, not meaning.
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on October 21, 2011, 06:12:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: lapa321 on October 21, 2011, 12:30:07 AM ---Why is the 'u' in umbrella pronouced differently from universe?
--- End quote ---
Prefix "um" vs. "uni."
--- End quote ---
There are also words like "unintended", or "uninterrupted"... but in those cases the prefix is actually "un". It just runs into the actual word to make it look like "uni" could be the prefix (at least to a program... for humans it's kind of obvious). Another wonderful complication of the English language.
As for "um", it's an outdated prefix. Not that many words at all starting with it (many are spinoffs of one main word)
--- Quote ---Werd. There is no universally accepted phonetic system in English like there is in Japanese (even if there is, or if one was introduced, it's not currently taught, so it'd take years to integrate one). We have the alphabet, but unlike Japanese, each letter is not restricted to a particular sound.
--- End quote ---
On the other hand, we don't have to make up retardedly large (multiple) alphabets in order encompass every possible sound. English is much more simple in a lot of other ways. So is Russian (probably... I wouldn't know about learning it, I was just born there). This probably makes English much less daunting to learn (not to mention no Kanji).
(click to show/hide)I'm kind of starting to wonder if the reason why Asians may be more hardworking or even smart (arguable) is because they've made everything about their culture a pain in the ass (compared to America anyway). Chopsticks or spoon and fork... which requires more concentration? Chopsticks, obviously. What about society? In America, loose, vague, and pretty simple (if it's your boss or someone you respect, maybe speak with a tad more care). Japan? Crazy amounts of depth... who the fuck knows who's gonna be offended, etc?!
What about linguistics?
US: Basic words -> basic sentence structure -> more complex words & sentence structure. Somewhere in there is also the introduction of slang terms to simplify. The past/present tense stuff (and "they're/their/there, its/it's) may be a problem to some, but it's not hard to be understood.
Japan: To be honest, I don't quite know enough about the sentence structure. From my friend ranting about it on the phone while learning it, it appears to not clearly state the noun sometimes, and it can be very difficult to even put what is being said into text because of all of these rules about what you're writing down as opposed to what you actually hear (I hear him complaining about "what is this 'understood' bullshit?!" a lot)... but putting that aside they already get a massive amount of memorization training because of that huge (multiple) alphabet size and... then there's Kanji. It's just more of a challenge on so many levels.
... Just a mini-rant in a somewhat unrelated topic, totally uncalled for.
mgz:
--- Quote from: Soryon on October 21, 2011, 12:26:49 AM ---
--- Quote from: lapa321 on October 21, 2011, 12:23:40 AM ---
--- Quote from: Soryon on October 21, 2011, 12:18:26 AM ---Some people pronounce it "ahmen" but whatever.
As far as the umbrella thing, there is no sound for "uh" in kana so the closest they can get would be to start with the "ah" sound or ア.
--- End quote ---
I guess it's more apparent when your native language, which is phonetic, is read by an american, who then instinctively tries to apply his american pronounciation rules on what should be a straightforward reading.
--- End quote ---
Inside of America I have heard it pronounced both ways.
--- End quote ---
yea cuz im american and live in jersey everyone i know says it like ah men crazy black people say EY MEN
Freedom Kira:
--- Quote from: xShadow on October 21, 2011, 10:56:57 PM ---On the other hand, we don't have to make up retardedly large (multiple) alphabets in order encompass every possible sound. English is much more simple in a lot of other ways. So is Russian (probably... I wouldn't know about learning it, I was just born there). This probably makes English much less daunting to learn (not to mention no Kanji).
(click to show/hide)I'm kind of starting to wonder if the reason why Asians may be more hardworking or even smart (arguable) is because they've made everything about their culture a pain in the ass (compared to America anyway). Chopsticks or spoon and fork... which requires more concentration? Chopsticks, obviously. What about society? In America, loose, vague, and pretty simple (if it's your boss or someone you respect, maybe speak with a tad more care). Japan? Crazy amounts of depth... who the fuck knows who's gonna be offended, etc?!
What about linguistics?
US: Basic words -> basic sentence structure -> more complex words & sentence structure. Somewhere in there is also the introduction of slang terms to simplify. The past/present tense stuff (and "they're/their/there, its/it's) may be a problem to some, but it's not hard to be understood.
Japan: To be honest, I don't quite know enough about the sentence structure. From my friend ranting about it on the phone while learning it, it appears to not clearly state the noun sometimes, and it can be very difficult to even put what is being said into text because of all of these rules about what you're writing down as opposed to what you actually hear (I hear him complaining about "what is this 'understood' bullshit?!" a lot)... but putting that aside they already get a massive amount of memorization training because of that huge (multiple) alphabet size and... then there's Kanji. It's just more of a challenge on so many levels.
... Just a mini-rant in a somewhat unrelated topic, totally uncalled for.
--- End quote ---
That makes English relatively simple to learn, yes, but it also makes it difficult to make a speech program because some letters have so many different possible sounds. Having a separate symbol for every sound makes the alphabet huge, but also removes the ambiguity that programmers have to deal with.
(click to show/hide)Actually chopsticks are very easy to use and are just as intuitive as using a fork and knife once you train your hand. When people have been using chopsticks all their life, picking something up becomes just as natural as stabbing something with a fork. And you can use one hand for everything! With the standard English utensil setup, you have more utensils than you have hands, and to make it worse, people in North America like to change hands often when using a knife and fork. I've simplified that for myself by training myself to eat with my fork strictly in my left, but I can't say the same for a lot of people I know.
As for Japanese, it's mostly just split into two dialects - casual and formal. It's actually pretty similar to English. They just use formal more often than we do. Over there it's natural to speak Keigo to someone you met a few times and have gotten to know a little. Over here, you wouldn't do that. But the distinction between how you speak with close friends vs. your boss is there.
lapa321:
--- Quote from: xShadow on October 21, 2011, 10:56:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: lapa321 on October 21, 2011, 12:50:04 AM ---Googled phonetics and found this
--- Quote ---Eye have a spelling chequer,
It came with my pea sea.
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss Steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
and weight four it two say
Weather Eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid,
It nose bee fore two long,
And Eye can put the error rite -
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no,
Its letter perfect awl the weigh.
My spell chequer tolled me sew.
--- End quote ---
Anybody with a text-to-speech engine on hand? ;D
--- End quote ---
Wasn't hard to read at all, to be honest. Just read each word for its sound, not meaning.
--- End quote ---
Actually, i was wondering which one will sound closer to actual speech when put through a synthesizer. Does 'threw' sound closer to 'through' when actually spoken? I do know if you want a computer to say 'Colonel' (military) you'll have to put in 'kernel' (corn) :P
Also, i just realized door is not pronounced the same way as moon, if i were to spell, it would probably be dore. ;D
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