Author Topic: WD HDD Industry Will Be Supply Constrained Due to Thailand Flooding (Read 8529 times)

Sosseres · « **Reply #40 on:** November 09, 2011, 07:26:47 PM »

To get different batches shouldn't you buy a popular hdd with time between? Like one now and another one in three months from the same (large) retailer? Since so many HDDs of that type has been sold in that time period a new batch is the only likely thing.

per · « **Reply #41 on:** November 09, 2011, 07:32:22 PM »

Quote from: Sosseres on November 09, 2011, 07:26:47 PM

To get different batches shouldn't you buy a popular hdd with time between? Like one now and another one in three months from the same (large) retailer? Since so many HDDs of that type has been sold in that time period a new batch is the only likely thing.

Well, yes. But I need to buy at least five drives at a time (minimum) since I use a 3+2 configuration (2 redundant drives per five drives).

And buying all five at once would mean that each slice (which is where batch allocation really matters) would still be the same batch.

One alternative, if you trust the drives to last a few months at least, is to use mirroring instead of raidz2, and buy the mirror drives later (that is, set it up as a normal non-redundant stripe first, then add redundancy a few months later on).

Considering that one out of my 20 drives failed the first week that is probably not a good idea, though.

You could set up a smaller mirrored pool, then add more drives, copy the data to the new drives, verify the copy, split up the old pool, and re-add it as mirrors to the new drives. I guess. Sort of a lot of work, though.

Sosseres · « **Reply #42 on:** November 09, 2011, 08:56:15 PM »

Or buy different models of drives? Like one WD, one seagate and so on. Since they get bought at different intervals from making it doesn't matter that one or the other is just a re-branding. Though local retailers here only carry 4 different brands of 2 TB discs.

per · « **Reply #43 on:** November 09, 2011, 09:30:43 PM »

Quote from: Sosseres on November 09, 2011, 08:56:15 PM

Or buy different models of drives? Like one WD, one seagate and so on. Since they get bought at different intervals from making it doesn't matter that one or the other is just a re-branding. Though local retailers here only carry 4 different brands of 2 TB discs.

One major issue with using multiple brands (and also the reason that I am restocking on 2Tb, not 1.5Tb drives) is that they are usually not the same size.

CharredChar · « **Reply #44 on:** November 10, 2011, 01:39:02 PM »

All of this does suck for people with large person servers who suddenly need more space.
I personally just ended up buying some blank media (DVD-R, BD-R) with the money I was going to use on another drive. Putting the movies and shows Ive already watched and tend to not watch again on a shelf and deleting it off the drives.

As for buying different brand drives so you dont get multiple bads from the same batch, most hardware RAIDs dont like that at all. You could always use a software RAID though. Plus side to that is you can do something like AnimeJanai mentioned where your new, largest drive replaces the oldest, smallest on your RAID while keeping the RAID intact.

Edit: And to add to the SSD comments. No, it wont touch their prices at all as they are a completely different manufacturing process at completely different facilities. They are also NOT a good alternative for what most people are using large hard drives for anymore, mass media storage.
Though I can see more people opting for a SSD as their main system drive now that the Price per GB is so close. I myself just bought one for my Laptop, whos drive just took a dump on me.
And there is no such thing as a "cheap and reliable SSD", at least not right now it seems. It seems the last couple generations have had some serious controller issues.

Sosseres · « **Reply #45 on:** November 10, 2011, 04:13:38 PM »

Mm I know SSDs are known for their poor quality, which is why they have 5 year warranty...

Char, you aren't thinking the next step. Manufacturing of SSD is intact and same. Demand goes up since the price is suddenly competitive. Which leads to same supply, more demand. A spike in price to a lower price if the volume keeps being high after normal drives drop in price.

CharredChar · « **Reply #46 on:** November 10, 2011, 04:24:38 PM »

Quote from: Sosseres on November 10, 2011, 04:13:38 PM

Mm I know SSDs are known for their poor quality, which is why they have 5 year warranty...

Char, you aren't thinking the next step. Manufacturing of SSD is intact and same. Demand goes up since the price is suddenly competitive. Which leads to same supply, more demand. A spike in price to a lower price if the volume keeps being high after normal drives drop in price.

That could be the case, but somehow I see them anticipating the demand easier for the SSDs considering the only change is the price of HDDs, not any supply issue. From what Ive read from a couple places consumer SSDs dont turn much of a profit (Id imagine its worse with all the RMAs lately) so I doubt they would ramp up production well past demand to the point they would need to lower the price just to sell whats left after HDDs drop and end up make even less on them.

AnimeJanai · « **Reply #47 on:** November 12, 2011, 07:19:41 AM »

It's too bad then that SSD drive makers cannot agree on a format standard to reduce packaging issues. If they could, it would be interesting if there were two mandatory options to deal with instead of the current one option. By replacing the memory cartridges, it would reduce the amount of waste from discarding all the drive controller housings along with their working controller hardware simply because the memory was running out of spare replacement memory cells.

(1) Purchase the SSD controller cartridge for the laptop or desktop. It would be basically the 2.5 inch drive box without the memory in it.

(2) Purchase the desired memory cartridge and insert into the SSD controller cartridge housing. If the management software indicates the memory cartridge is running out of replacement memory cells, then it is time to buy a new memory cartridge.

Lupin · « **Reply #48 on:** November 12, 2011, 08:10:55 AM »

Quote from: AnimeJanai on November 12, 2011, 07:19:41 AM

It's too bad then that SSD drive makers cannot agree on a format standard to reduce packaging issues. If they could, it would be interesting if there were two mandatory options to deal with instead of the current one option. By replacing the memory cartridges, it would reduce the amount of waste from discarding all the drive controller housings along with their working controller hardware simply because the memory was running out of spare replacement memory cells.

(1) Purchase the SSD controller cartridge for the laptop or desktop. It would be basically the 2.5 inch drive box without the memory in it.

(2) Purchase the desired memory cartridge and insert into the SSD controller cartridge housing. If the management software indicates the memory cartridge is running out of replacement memory cells, then it is time to buy a new memory cartridge.

You want more compatibility issues and firmware writing complexities? Additional complexities produce additional bugs... and additional costs.

It sounds nice but it complicates things. Controller firmware is written specifically for the type of chips used. Sometimes it's written for a specific manufacturer model. What do you think happens to costs when developing a firmware that can accept multiple types/brands of chips. Testing becomes harder since you have to test the firmware for every supported chip (and ups costs). Minute changes on the board might require a new firmware.

CharredChar · « **Reply #49 on:** November 12, 2011, 08:16:17 AM »

Lupin ended up saying most of what I would have. lol
And like I said before, most of the issues people are having lately have been controller based, not the NANDs wearing out. Even if they allowed you replace just one part of the SSD it would cost the same (to you) as sending in the entire drive and them sending you back a replacement.

AnimeJanai · « **Reply #50 on:** November 12, 2011, 08:53:00 AM »

It's just too bad that so many things keep getting tossed. Each piece of electronics in the dumpster represents so many units of energy, ounces of petroleum, and ounces of metals wasted.

Ultra_Magnus · « **Reply #51 on:** November 12, 2011, 11:08:31 AM »

Quote from: AnimeJanai on November 07, 2011, 11:41:54 AM

@Ultra_Magnus
Probably because he buys as additional storage gigabytes are needed as opposed to people who swap out multiple drives for bigger ones.

I guess that makes sense. Although constantly buying smaller drives must end up being more expensive.

Sosseres · « **Reply #52 on:** November 12, 2011, 12:24:11 PM »

Quote from: Ultra_Magnus on November 12, 2011, 11:08:31 AM

Quote from: AnimeJanai on November 07, 2011, 11:41:54 AM
@Ultra_Magnus
Probably because he buys as additional storage gigabytes are needed as opposed to people who swap out multiple drives for bigger ones.
I guess that makes sense. Although constantly buying smaller drives must end up being more expensive.

You start out at 20 GB drives, get a 100 GB one, then a 250 GB one. You are now full and have no more slots for drives, so as you buy a 500GB one you remove the 20 GB one. As you get full the next time you but a 1 TB drive and swap out the 100 GB one. Next time a 2TB one and swap out the 250 GB.

Meaning you are now at 500, 1TB and 2TB drives.

The other way of doing it is, hmm my drives are full. I'll buy 2 TB drives and remove the 250, 500, 1TB ones, ending up with one drive less and 250 GB more space.

I have done both. Most recently I did the bottom one and replaced 3 drives with 2 larger ones (keeping 2 of the ones I had).

kitamesume · « **Reply #53 on:** November 17, 2011, 09:06:09 PM »

^ i don't retire old drives tho, i use them as some sort of portable HDDs, well giving them their own case and the SATA-to-USB hubs should do the trick, even if they kick the bucket... well its something like an extra large flash drive =P

CharredChar · « **Reply #54 on:** November 18, 2011, 08:22:06 AM »

Quote from: kitamesume on November 17, 2011, 09:06:09 PM

^ i don't retire old drives tho, i use them as some sort of portable HDDs, well giving them their own case and the SATA-to-USB hubs should do the trick, even if they kick the bucket... well its something like an extra large flash drive =P

I still have a few IDE drives sitting around, though a few came from modded XBoxes. lol What to do with those? Yeah, scrap them.

Ultra_Magnus · « **Reply #55 on:** November 18, 2011, 09:28:26 AM »

Quote from: CharredChar on November 18, 2011, 08:22:06 AM

Quote from: kitamesume on November 17, 2011, 09:06:09 PM
^ i don't retire old drives tho, i use them as some sort of portable HDDs, well giving them their own case and the SATA-to-USB hubs should do the trick, even if they kick the bucket... well its something like an extra large flash drive =P
I still have a few IDE drives sitting around, though a few came from modded XBoxes. lol What to do with those? Yeah, scrap them.

I still have the 2gb IDE hard drive from my first computer, thought it was huge at the time... how times change.

Have a bunch of full height* 5gb SCSI drives too, will probably take them apart for the magnets in them some day. Most hard drives have crazy powerful magnets in them.

*For the kids that don't know what I am talking about, most hard drives today are what used to be called "half height".

AnimeJanai · « **Reply #56 on:** November 18, 2011, 01:06:10 PM »

Modern 3.5 inch hard drives for the ATAPI EIDE and SATA specifications are less than half-height. A half-height drive would take up almost all the vertical space in a half-height drive bay in a typical desktop PC case. A full-height hard drive has a front bezel that is almost three inches vertical.

Pentium100 · « **Reply #57 on:** November 21, 2011, 08:49:50 PM »

I have a 5.25" Full Height SCSI drive (~1GB). If you do not know how big this drive is, put two CD drives one on top of another.

As for this shortage - yea, it sucks, but hopefully I can get by without needing new hard drives and LTO2 tapes do not become more expensive.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #58 on:** November 22, 2011, 07:41:03 AM »

I have to wonder how much capacity they can stuff into a drive of that (physical) size with today's data density capabilities.

CharredChar · « **Reply #59 on:** November 22, 2011, 10:36:38 AM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on November 22, 2011, 07:41:03 AM

I have to wonder how much capacity they can stuff into a drive of that (physical) size with today's data density capabilities.

IIRC, its not really worth doing so. Its cheaper to increase the platter density than it is to add more platters for space. Ontop of that, if a single platter goes bad then you arent throwing away good platters when you replace the drive. Plus less parts to go wrong with inside of a drive increases reliability and lowers power consumption. Ontop of RAID, why not just buy multiple drives that takes the same space as a "full size" drive?

Edit: Oh yeah, and those older drives had physically larger platters and reader heads, so they had less platters in the same space anyway. But if you really wanted a guess, Samsung now have 1TB platters, four in their current drives. So maybe 10TBs a "full size" drive?