Author Topic: SOPA and PROTECT-IP  (Read 19111 times)

Offline AnimeJanai

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #80 on: January 13, 2012, 07:47:18 AM »
TO: Remak

What do you mean by "nonpartisan"?   That word has different meanings for different people.   For example, FOX news and most people who prefer FOX over other TV journalism sources use that word in the context of Right and Wrong in that their viewpoint is right, and the other viewpoint is Wrong.   Others use it in reference to liberal vs conservative viewpoints without the right/wrong meaning and yet more others use it that way but with the right/wrong meaning.

Because of this, the word "nonpartisan" essentially has no meaning (because it has been used in EVERY context depending on the person).

If you meant to use it as in "an article that takes no sides in its description" then there is no such thing because then the article could not use terms such as Constitutional Rights, Fair Use, Freedom of Expression, etcetera.  Those words have a strong positive connotation and thus their use in a description in essence forces the description to take a side.

This problem exists not because SOPA is a neutral type of item such as "flour", "water", "light", "planets", or "orange".  Can you have a nonpartisan article about "torture"?  As soon as that torture article started having real details, it would intrinsically have a "partisan" effect on itself.   SOPA is similar because it itself is a creation from a highly biased viewpoint relative to the environment in which it is to exist.  <-- I am trying to be neutral but that forces me to be bland because as soon as details are provided, the description becomes partisan because certain concepts are very biased such as constitutional rights, fair use, freedom of expression, etc.  These are stereotyped as desirable attributes, thus to use them forces the description to take a side.  Similarly, use of their antonyms is stereotyped as undesirable, thus using them in a description also intrinsically creates a partisan effect.

Go read the Wikipedia article.  At least you have some protection of a neutral viewpoint because a lot of the editors still have the original idealism of being neutral.  While my prior paragraphis in this post may seem like prattle or "ivory tower logic" to you, they represent a fair assessment of various thoughts that editors go through when re-writing or scratching out what others write at the wiki.  You may also find it easier to forgive the existing wikipedia SOPA article for "taking sides" when much of it has not.  It simply is difficult to be intrinsically neutral when the description uses the expressions I've mentioned.

Offline datora

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2012, 03:47:26 AM »
.
Next week Wednesday, 18 January is looking like it's gaining a lot of momentum for protests by many organizations.  Now there will be a physical protest in New York City.

The United States Senate is scheduled to vote on PIPA on January 24.

Lots of info & details:

 - http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/new-yorks-tech-scene-will-physically-protest-sopapipa.php?ref=BakaBT

 - http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/sopa-and-pipa-sponsors-caving-into-opposition.php?ref=BakaBT

A number of the key sponsors of this garbage are getting the message loud and clear and they're beginning to back-peddle.  KEEP THE PRESSURE ON.  WRITE OR CALL your SENATORS immediately and tell them to represent you and vote NO on this legislation.
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Offline Meomix

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2012, 04:12:03 AM »
Don't forget to email Jon Stewart, he was unaware of this whole incident taking place.
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Offline nstgc

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2012, 04:29:22 AM »
Can't wait to start bitching about OPEN Act.

Offline datora

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2012, 08:11:20 AM »
.
google has recently been FAILing me more and more as a simple search engine.  Ran across an old bookmark of mine that I started playing with again tonight:

 - http://duckduckgo.com/

Once you get your initial results page, at the very top next to the search box is a "more" pull-down that you can use to enter a pretty sophisticated settings page.  Just an FYI for anyone who wants to give it a spin.

One of my various tests was an unfiltered, unlocalized search for sopa.  Quite a number of very interesting hits that did not appear in the top ~50 or so in google.  Here's three, the first two news stories that are pretty good primers on the issues involved, the third one tracks all Representatives and Senators and if they support or oppose or are currently uncommitted.  You can also pull-down your state and get details, such as how much lobbying money they've taken from the entertainment industry.

 - http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/01/12/sopa-the-gloves-come-off/

 - http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/272580/20111225/sopa-bill-2012-things-know-controversial-legislation.htm

 - http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/ (80 in favor, so far, and 28 opposed)

And bonus, part of an ongoing blog series that rambles around on a lot of the associated issues & problems with SOPA-like mentality, in addition to SOPA itself:

 - http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/03/sopa-freedom-and-the-invisible-war/
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Offline AnimeJanai

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2012, 10:33:45 PM »
It's a bit sad to think this, but I think it is possible that some parts of the RIAA and MPAA are hoping a national disaster occurs to distract the news focus and protester support from SOPA so that it will pass quickly so that Congress and the Senate can deal with the next new major disaster.

Offline nstgc

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2012, 01:23:13 AM »
It is interesting how major disaster crop up whenever something "needs" to pass through Congress.

Offline NinjaHamster

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2012, 01:31:13 AM »
Hey guys. You've probably already mentioned this somewhere in the discussion (tl;dr), but I think we should all write our Congressmen about our opinions.

Offline nstgc

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2012, 01:33:41 AM »
I've already written to all three of mine three times. I'm considering writting again to inform them of the better bill "OPEN Act". I don't know the details, but it looks like its better than SOPA or PIPA by miles. Still fuck us over, but at least it won't hurt the economy as much.

Offline datora

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2012, 05:20:25 AM »
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I've already written to all three of mine three times.

Thank you for writing!  It doesn't take much ... three short paragraphs, barely 7 or 8 sentences, with half of them being polite formalities to open & close.


@NinjaHamster:

In my previous posts, I included some links to help locate your Representative & Senators online, so you can call or use the *.gov websites instead of spending money & time on a physical letter.

However, a nicely hand-written, one or two page letter makes a BIG impression.  I've done a bit of activism, and elected officials consider it very significant when they get a (comprehensible, literate) hand-written letter from a constituent.  They are fairly rare and they sort of "count" as 100 or 500 responses because it statistically means that about 1000 or so people with a similar opinion didn't take that sort of time for each one received.


I'm considering writting again to inform them of the better bill "OPEN Act". I don't know the details, but it looks like its better than SOPA or PIPA by miles. Still fuck us over, but at least it won't hurt the economy as much.

I would advise against that.  Not telling you what to do, but the OPEN Act only looks better because SOPA/PIPA is so horrendously terrible.

Much better to request 1) throw out SOPA/PIPA and start over from scratch, 2) make it a serious and considered process for efficient legislation, and 3) it needs to be crafted by top, neutral experts in modern information technology and law.  4) Industry lobbyists and partisan activists need to be kept out of drafting process; they may participate in the commentary process with equal voice to any other U.S. citizen.

SOPA and PIPA are a template for what should NOT be done; they are shining examples of exactly the opposite of what good legislation on this topic would look like.

I am also of the opinion that no legislation like this should even be on the Congressional agenda, at all in any form, for at least all of 2012.  There are monumental problems facing this country that the Congress should be tackling and solving, and the SOPA/PIPA "debate" is a manufactured distraction that is wasting extremely valuable time and resources that are desperately needed on other vastly more serious problems.


Yes, that is the sort of language I've used when writing to my Representative & Senators (on this and similar topics).  It goes beyond telling/asking them to kill SOPA/PIPA, it reaches beyond my mere opinion of this abominable legislation, this industry hat trick to subvert our country when it is distracted by enormous crisis.  I also use the opportunity to indicate my fury at this circus filled with  fart jokes that they are conducting instead of doing their jobs.

In my case, one of my Senators is in support of SOPA/PIPA, and I have pulled few punches in indicating just how monumentally indefensible that support is.  That Senator has taken quite a bit of money from the entertainment industry, and I've expressed my disgust at the corruption of it.  My other Senator and my Representative are "unknown," so I've strongly suggested that they get informed and take up a visible, opposition stance.  And, I've requested that they respond to me with their position.  Both my Senators received an email from me that was about three sentences and basically said "You represent me, and I expect you to vote against this on 24 January (or whenever the vote might get rescheduled).  I will be watching your vote, and my support for you in the next election will significantly affected by it."
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Offline xShadow

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2012, 05:25:24 AM »
Can't wait to start bitching about OPEN Act.

To be honest (this is probably gonna sound a bit far-fetched) I'm thinking that SOPA + Protect IP might just be tools to get a regulation of any kind passed.

I just noticed it when I was looking through a few readings (not many, since I rarely care about politics) and I noticed one of the Senators opposing it was talking about an alternative one that he was putting forward called OPEN. This gave me some relief, going "you know, that would be fine, it's better than SOPA".

Then I stopped and realized that what I was feeling might be what a lot of people were thinking. Now, I'm usually not paranoid, but then I was like, "What if that's what they want us to feel?" So just thinking another possibility might be that they're just using SOPA not as an end-all but as a tool to get something that's not as restrictive (but still serves their purposes) passed. A big storm passes over, so you ignore the slightly smaller one.

This prolly seems obvious to you guys, though. Just something I thought of randomly.

Edit: I think datora just ninja'd me.

Cute, huh?

Offline nstgc

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2012, 03:07:50 PM »
I'm not the "well this is better than that so I like this" type. The reason I can support the OPEN Act is because it, at this stage, as far as I can tell, doesn't contain anything I find objectionable. Admittedly I haven't looked at it seriously, but so far its good. Also I'm not so sure PIPA was meant to scare us into something else. I do think that was the purpose of SOPA, to scare us into PIPA. I honestly think, however, that they (big copy right holders) thought they could get PIPA through. I don't think they expected this level of opposition.

Offline vicious796

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2012, 12:33:38 PM »
Looks to be getting scaled back or thrown out entirely.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-online-piracy-bill-headed-major-makeover-222324774.html


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Offline sawakosadako

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2012, 01:47:13 PM »
Found an interesting articles, maybe we can use this in case the SOPA's passed:
It's a bit funny though, since the idea came from the US :D
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-01/german-hackers-are-building-diy-space-program-put-their-own-uncensored-internet-space
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Offline skywarior

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2012, 02:43:32 PM »
Found an interesting articles, maybe we can use this in case the SOPA's passed:
It's a bit funny though, since the idea came from the US :D
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-01/german-hackers-are-building-diy-space-program-put-their-own-uncensored-internet-space

I heard about that yeah. I found it real interesting. THe only point is that these networks still need a bit of a a setup. But i agree it is a pretty interesting thing to look at for later on.
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Offline snowD

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #95 on: January 17, 2012, 09:22:56 PM »
looks alot like whats happening in my country... 2 ISPs are orderd by the court to shutdown and close any and all connections with TPB and alot of people including the ISPs themselfs are against it.

Offline skywarior

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #96 on: January 17, 2012, 09:49:40 PM »
looks alot like whats happening in my country... 2 ISPs are orderd by the court to shutdown and close any and all connections with TPB and alot of people including the ISPs themselfs are against it.

See your also from the Netherlands. It is correct. I dissagree with Brein though. But they havent been able to make it into a law. 'yet' But we know they would want to. So SOPA is important for us too as europeans as well as elsewhere on the world. Allowing this will only make things worse. Because the world tends to follow the U.S. like...alot?

So we have to keep working to get this off. =)
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Offline Semnae

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #97 on: January 18, 2012, 12:49:21 AM »
This thread was started back in November. It is now mid-January and both bills are STILL in committee. Move along people. Nothing here to see.

Edit: This kind of reminds me of that abortion act that was in committee right after Obama took office that was obviously never going to see the House or Senate floor, but everyone kept talking about it in a panic anyways. My memory fails me... what was that act called again?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 12:58:05 AM by Semnae »

Offline nstgc

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #98 on: January 18, 2012, 01:03:36 AM »
Actually PIPA is out of Committee and given those who Chair the Judicial committee in the House SOPA will as well. Also both still have enough support to pass.

Offline skywarior

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Re: SOPA and PROTECT-IP
« Reply #99 on: January 18, 2012, 01:06:04 AM »
This thread was started back in November. It is now mid-January and both bills are STILL in committee. Move along people. Nothing here to see.

Edit: This kind of reminds me of that abortion act that was in committee right after Obama took office that was obviously never going to see the House or Senate floor, but everyone kept talking about it in a panic anyways. My memory fails me... what was that act called again?

~~Not surez if trolling lol.~~

Yet if we would not speak, and it would happen(and since money seems to be everything these days, it would not be that strange) Then how would you like your new internetz. Knowing that all you say or read is being monitored. ; )

If they think they can get away with it, they will. Lots of people over there in the US senate are people with money, so if they know how to get more money they will surely do. Capitalism HO~

I do agree though, it will props never see a place out there. But that is because there is a huge amount of people against it. Not sure how that was with the abortion part. But this will have the biggest amount because the internet affects us all these days.

Political things tend to take a long time. Somethimes just a week othertimes it takes months. or even years.
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