Author Topic: Picking a laptop.  (Read 2741 times)

Offline fohfoh

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2011, 01:34:04 AM »
@Kureshii: I'm not mistaking anything. The ideapads are not as good as the thinkpads. That's a given. Think pads are essentially a magnesium shell with a black grippy coating on the outside. My bro has one. He barely uses it. I'm thinking of buying a battery and maybe taking it off his hands since it's been over a year with his i5 asus. It's an older T42 or something. I paid about $400 for it in a shady backdoor deal about 3 years back. I'm thinking about putting up a few hundred for it, grabbing an SSD on boxing day (I've replaced both HDD and RAM in the past due to corrupted components), a new 9 cell for it and using it as an on the go "tablet". My shitty dell atm is a hell of a lot more useful than a tablet atm, minus the fact that it's not portable (good thing it's nearby) and the screen hinges are cracked. 

My dad has an ideapad. It's been a few months now. It's not bad. I agree with the HP consumer series comment, but it is still miles ahead of the Dells I've seen going at Best Buy. The display ones there for whatever reason always seem like they're near death due to ventilation issues sitting on a flat surface nonetheless. Ventilation is far better in the ideapad than HP which was always the issue I hated about consumer grade laptops, but not the best. The problem with it is the HDD is a piece of shit 5400rpm. Not that 5400rpm immediately = shitty, but it's a huge bottleneck on the i7 set up.

The last laptop I bought was a business grade one. Sony SZ something IIRC. It's been used about 3 or 4 years now. it's great. It was even better after I upgraded the HDD to a 7200rpm.


IF I buy another laptop:
- Lenovo X series
- Lenovo T series
- HP Business grade
- Sony Business grade

Would essentially be the only choices I'd go with if buying it for myself. Those fuckers are not only sleek, they're durable as hell too. Another option is buying an older used mac and tinkering with it to see what people like about it. Honestly, I've sat down with one for several hours and still don't see how it's useful for anything other than basic word, email and stuff. I'd gift it to my mom after I'm done playing with it. (My friend is considering upgrading if she has the cash, I offered $200 for it and she's interested, minus the fact she doesn't have the cash to upgrade yet)
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Offline kureshii

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 03:30:35 AM »
Edit: well simple reason of because the i7 is literally twice that of the performance of the i5, but i have no idea if you'll have any use for it =P
Lies; only the i7-2XXXQM are quad-core. Even then, the 45W quad-core parts are clocked lower than the i5M parts, so it's not twice the performance, but less. The i7-2XXXM parts are only dual-core, just with more L3 cache than the i5s, generally speaking (the i7/i5 mobile product lineup is quite a mess frankly speaking).

For a cheap laptop I'd actually advise against getting a quad-core processor. The Sandy Bridge quad-core parts have a TDP of 45W (55W for the Extreme models); the dual-core parts are 35W. The TDP is an indication of the cooling capacity required from the chassis housing the chip. Throw in a Geforce mobile, and that's a laptop packing a lot of heat.

To accommodate a processor with higher TDP, you have to ensure that the laptop chassis can handle the higher TDP as well; the quad-cores are not just drop-in replacements for the dual-cores! Unfortunately, designing a chassis that can cool effectively yet remain low-profile is not easy. It's serious engineering work. Most OEMs simply don't care about this part in their cheaper products; you'll see that they use the same chassis for both their dual-core and quad-core offerings. Perhaps they'll slap a higher-RPM fan on the heatsink and consider it done. It takes more than that to run a quad-core laptop that lasts for years.

How do they get away with this? Because consumers don't know or don't care. Give them a quad-core with "literally twice that of the performance" [sic] of a dual-core part for just $50 more, and they'll jump at it. At the same time you can even sell them a laptop cooler to supplement their anemically cooled laptop: "It's a quad-core laptop, it will run hotter so you need something to help!" (protip: it won't help much). A year later the warranty runs dry, the laptop overheats constantly, the customer grumbles about laptops always running so hot, and manufacturers not making things as hardy as they used to, and goes off to buy—another quad-core-$50-more-than-the-dual-core laptop.

So stick with an i5/i7 dual-core. It's not a quad-core, but your laptop will very likely last longer in a chassis that can literally take the heat. If you must have a quad-core laptop, expect to pay more not only for the processor, but the chassis as well.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 03:35:45 AM by kureshii »

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 08:45:46 AM »
^ eh... im wasn't talking about i7-2xxxQM vs i5-2xxxM, i'm specifically talking about i7-2670QM vs i5-2430M which are just 200mhz apart.

PS: do notice the last line of what you quoted. in case you dont understand what it means "sure go ahead and jump in if you think that you'll be able to use it."

edit: oh yea, in my mind when people do use their laptops for heavy works that really needs a quad, i wouldn't be expecting them to run on batteries, it'll dry it up in just an hour or less.
edit2: overheating is the manufacturer's fault, thats why you check reviews for them~
(i7-2670QM+cooling dock = overheating) then (i5-2430M+no cooling dock = overheating) else (the manufacturer rigged the thing to cool so beautifully when an i5 is inserted and do worse with an i7)

why and how i came up with that is because 45W TDP(i7-2670QM) and 35W TDP(i5-2430M) is not double of the requirements of the cooling, if the unit itself is boundary overheating with an i5 then the unit itself has something wrong in it.
its like a bus, the bus can hold up to 10people and you put in 8, now theres 4 more people wanting to board, you'll just have to prepare some more seats, i.e. additional temporary cooling on the topic's case.

unless you're saying that cooling takes twice as more per additional heat then i'll admit defeat.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 09:27:43 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline AnimeJanai

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 10:43:35 PM »
Sometimes by looking over OTHER models of laptops you can gain experience in various laptop features that are not written up as direct performance features.

One bad feature is all plastic bottoms.  Cooling pads don't work well for laptops that are all plastic on bottom since plastic keeps the heat inside.  A lot of the chinese fulfillment-house type laptops are like that.  My Dell Inspiron has metal hatch plates at some locations on bottom and those get hot.  The cooling pad works fairly well on those hot metal surfaces.  Some laptops have tiny fans and those make the loud high-pitched noise.  My Dell Inspiron has a thin 1.5 inch diameter fan so it runs silently unless at highest speed where it is still quieter than other brands excepting Sony Vaio.  The fan is in a horizontal slide drawer so it is easy to slide out, clean, and vacuum the exposed heatpipe cooling fins inside the laptop's body.  The ATI graphics card in the laptop has its own cooling fan.  So, it may be an Inspiron, but at 1920 x 1080, it displays Guilty Crown just fine with zero pixels DROPPED.

If you have a friend working in a major corporation, see if you can buy your dell thru him with his corporate discount.  The corporate discounts are automatic on the dell website since you login and access a private corporate set of webpages for purchasing.  The discount codes you have stack on top of the corporate discount.  The advantage of corporate employee purchases is that if the company maxed out its plan with dell, the employee purchases are also entitled to the same platinum type warranty.   My corp maxed it out and it must be quite expensive, but the service has meant every machine the family uses is Dell.  *harrumph*  Drop it?  Full replacement no charge even for shipping both ways.  Desperate?  Same day replacement (at least for me).  Local depot unable to provide equal or better replacement to your satisfaction?  Courier service (it travels almost like a passenger to and from the Texas depot) meant that I sent my laptop after work on monday and it came back the next day at 2PM arrival time although I waited until after work to pick it up.  Shipping was free both ways and you can imagine courier shipping must be really expensive and my lappy prolly jumped to the head of the waiting line for repairs.  It shipped to Texas, got parts replaced, and shipped back all in less than 24 hours.  And Dell even wiped everything clean so there was not a spec of dust anywhere, even inside the cooling fan area.  Did I buy that laptop from Nordstrom or Lexus?  The service was hard to fault.  Another plus of the dell platinum warranty machines is that I could return it for even one bad pixel.  Of course, all of our inspiron laptosp arrived with zero pixel defects.    It's sort of like the desktops and various laptops were all purchased at Nordstroms since they convey that satisfaction guaranteed feeling.   My family's next PC will also be a dell.  Mind you, we stick with dell because of the unbeatable warranty.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2011, 04:34:49 AM »
^ thats why i did say overheating is manufacturer's fault, you'll have to look through reviews for those faults, which you should be doing btw.
but if  kureshii did mean it takes twice as more cooling per additional heat then what shes saying will make sense on a decently designed laptop.

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Offline pantywraith

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2011, 04:09:29 PM »
I work supporting laptops as my primary job. From first hand experience I would never buy a consumer grade computer. They will fail when you need them most, and their warranty service sucks. Get a Business class system and an extended warranty that covers accidental damage and next business day on-site repair.

For what you are looking at, I would recommend an HP Probook. They start out at about 500. The main down side of them is that they do not have an nVidia option only AMD and Intel for the Video.

I am using a 4535s now and I love it. I get good frame rates in Skyrim with medium settings and no tweaking of the ini files. 10-bit anime plays fine in 1080p. And, it is built like a rock. I paid 750 for it with warranty , but I got it trough a special program at work when we bought a 500 of them all at once. You will probably need to pay more if you want the warranty.

Offline AnimeJanai

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2011, 05:47:50 AM »
Unfortunately, your price point will be in the 499+ range for a 15.6 inch laptop with 1920 x 1080 display.  $499 USD was the cheapest I found one on the weekend after black friday but it did have LED backlight display.  All those $288 laptops are chinese fulfillment types.   The Fry's and warehouse club lower-priced models are of those types.  Regardless of the brand name on the outside, the inside design are basically the same (some parts are moved for patent and styling purposes).  A lot of those have display dimensions with one of the numbers such as 1280 or 1440. 




---
**Fulfillment House:   A place/factory in mainland china that supplies a generic product deliberately for the purpose of customizing and rebranding under multiple established brand names such as toshiba, hitachi, fujitsu, compaq, HP, gateway, or dell.  Another giveaway of fulfillment house machines is that my dell corporate discount page doesn't let me buy those cheaper models.  ha ha  It only lets me buy the consumer or business versions.

Offline Roven

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2011, 08:23:10 PM »
Found a really good deal on an Asus U46s
I5 2410
540gt
Prolly gonna take it anyway but what do you think?

Offline pantywraith

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2011, 08:35:50 PM »
ASUS is a good brand, not up to Thinkpad / HP Probook level build quality but far better than most.

Check the warranty very carefully so you know what to expect if you need service. You do not want any surprises when it comes to getting your new system serviced. And, it is not a matter of if it needs fixing but when it will need a repair. All computers need it eventualy.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2011, 10:31:53 PM »
its perfect specs wise, but try taking a look through reviews, might discover some more pros and cons.

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2011, 11:06:39 PM »
I've got an Asus, I'm pretty damn happy with it.


I find that everyone has different experiences with brands.

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Offline fohfoh

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2011, 07:30:05 AM »
Hard to say. In my experience:

Dell's failures seem to stem from issues with their casing design. Their casing either falls apart, or restricts airflow to cause it to overheat components which normally wouldn't fail. Not to say there's no issues with parts and other things, but this seems to be the main problem.

HP's failures seem to stem from issues with the design. Though their casing doesn't call apart, those fuckers run really god damn hot. Like, flesh searingly hot. The fact that it has a plastic bottom doesn't bode well for it either. Again, it seems the case is the main problem, but not like there aren't others.

Sony's failures seem to be inconsistent. On occasion, it seems like the casing is an issue. On other occasions, they received faulty parts, then on occasion it seems like the software is screwy and drivers and software begin conflicting with each other. I'm not saying there's a higher instance of failure. I'm saying in my experience, unlike HP and Dell which is very predictable, Sony's failures are a balanced bag of tricks. All you can say in the end is... shit happens. Weirdly enough though, maybe it's just me, I've heard of 3 instances of hotboxed laptops. The only other four instances of hotboxed laptops were all Apple MBAs. I don't know if it's a brand issue or "amazing design", but people like to use those laptops in bed and fuxxor them up doing so!

Lenovos in my experiences I have rarely seen issues. However, the few instances I've seen have generally been corrupted components. HDD and Ram. I am unaware of any other general consistent failures.

Acer in my experiences have rarely failed. Laptops and netbooks alike. But just like Sony, the failures are all a bag of tricks. You never know what will fail. (I've seen clam shell hinges break, HDDs corrupt, ram fail, screen break/crushed, keys falling out etc.)

Asus is another that I have rarely seen issues. However, they do run a bit hotter than normal. Cheap power and performance is what I generally say to people. Issues? It's a coin flip like Sony laptops.


Business Grade:

Sony SZ/Z series are ones I have rarely seen issues with. I use an SZ480 (I think it was) myself. 4 years later, still going strong. Minus the fact I upgraded the HDD and Ram myself. My friend on occasion used to comment that my laptop is the only laptop that could compare in quality to Apple, mainly because it lasted more than the 2 years most individuals own laptops for. I have another theory, I'll say it below. SZ/Z series were built to be light. Moreso ultraportable blood in their systems than rugged powerhouse in other brands. It's light, generally features some type of carbon fibre as a gimmick, but even though it's built in a way that makes you baby it, it performs decently well. There are minor issues with the keyboard in the sense some people think it's too loud, but that's the style, not the performance of it. It can be replaced IIRC.

Sony SR series. Is the series parallel to the SZ series. This one is built more rugged and durable. IIRC, it was playing with magnesium cases in a "sexy way" prior to the new generation Apple notebooks. I believe it featured "island keys" and more powerful video cards than the SZ/Z counterpart.

HP Probook is one sexy beast. The original Envy was the same. The new Envy is pure Apple bandwagon. I had actually hoped to obtain one myself last year boxing day, but at $1000 I decided to purchase something else instead because I already had my own laptop. If the boss isn't going to get me a decent laptop, I'm considering picking one of these up myself if the price is right for studying purposes. The only failures I've ever seen on these things were dead batteries from being over charged, twisted power cables and dented corners. It's built rough and meant for most basic "oops" statements you can chuck at a laptop. I believe most of it was still plastic on the outside, but it was not built in a cheap manner.

Lenovo thinkpads are some fine looking laptops. Ones you can probably do the most damage to (minus Panasonic toughbooks which are pretty much 2x the cost of the same performance) and still feel ok about the laptop. All in all, one of the most reliable laptops I have seen. Failures in these laptops were due to a dice throw at getting a bad component, and a dice throw at aftermarket products. Minus those failures, the laptop still chugs along nicely.

Apple. Not a business grade, but lasts about the same time. In my opinion, their longevity sits with some of their design. I hate the fact the airflow of the exhaust is blocked by the screen when open, however, it seems that this design also keeps individuals from hotboxing their laptops as easily. I don't know if this is intended, but it keeps people from killing MBP and regular macbooks. Another plus is that the case is designed for a bit of a beating. Not as high up there as an idea pad, but at least as high as the typical ruggedness of an ideapad, acer (ie: Net book) or Sony SR series (Which I've always wondered if it was somewhat a basis or competitive product when the new MBP design came out). MBAs on the other hand I've heard of about 4 hotboxes.

Consumer brands in my experience

Sony 1-3 years (With a ridiculous amount of hot boxed ones skewing the numbers. Or individuals upgrading prior to the death of the laptop. Sony's are second hand gifted a lot it seems)
Dell 1-5 years (Nothing over 3 has been free of needing some type of warranty fix from Dell)
HP 1-4 years (With the performance temp of these things, I always wonder how it lasts so long. Constant crashing till death sort of thing.)
Lenovos 1-3 years. Haven't seen too many of them, thus I haven't continually kept track but few failures of them too.
Acer 1-5 years. Generally legacy systems super slow, but still chugging along. Few "deaths". Netbooks are same too. Death usually only occurs on harsh abuse.
Asus 1-? Haven't seen many of them, few hearing instances of death for these though.

Sony business grade. I own an SZ, I know a guy with a Z, and a friend with an SR. Mine is 4 years and chugging without issue. The Z is fine, but the guy prefers his MBP instead. It's about 3 years old IIRC. The SR is fine. 2 years old IIRC.

HP Probook, IIRC, it was replaced when it was 4 years old, much to the anger of the owner. (Corporate laptop). She received some other replacement that died many time afterwards. (They could not replace battery and power cable, so gave her some other shitty one), other than those two, it was fine.

IBM Thinkpad/Lenovo Thinkpad. I don't think I've ever heard of these things dying. That being said, many just "disappear" after a while too. My brother's thinkpad is about 3 years old and works fine. It's too "slow" for him so I might take it off his hands as I stated before, but with a dual core something... it should be good enough for basic tasks with a SSD upgrade. I'd say like 4-5+ before people upgrade because the inner components are too slow.

Apple, usually like 2-4+. It's the warranty. Shit gets fixed all the time, but the laptop keeps chugging so age wise, it's all fair game.



As for Apple and Sony. I'm not sure if it's somehow the design, or just the people who buy them, but people like using these laptops in bed. They hot box them and kill them too. Granted, blocking air intake and exhaust isn't smart. But then again, when did I ever say individuals who buy a certain brand are smart? Also, the "age" of a laptop is also based on the individuals style. People will do things to kill their laptops on purpose. Those ages are also based on how long an individual is WILLING to use their laptop for. This is a huge plus for Apple in general because their OS and programs running on the OS generally will never hit a huge performance glut like running a modern day program on XP that needs increasingly more power every additional year.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 07:33:25 AM by fohfoh »
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2011, 07:51:50 AM »
^ as what i see on my local stores:
lenovo = a little pricy than the rest of the brands, quite a rare sight to find one being on display, no idea of reliability.
dell = no idea, they hardly exist here.
Asus = so-so in the pocket, has some flexible options, haven't heard of any complains.
Toshiba = heavy in the pocket, limited options, reliable as i've heard.
HP = decent price, good enough options. these guys are hot, i mean literally.
Acer = one of the budget sellers, you could practically find a few models with an i5+GT540m for 680$, high repair rate.
samsung = i dunno, i only see them selling atoms and brazos, some few pentium Bxxx and Llano as well.

edit:
acer example = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215183
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 07:54:38 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline fohfoh

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2011, 08:21:54 AM »
Toshibas are reliable. Yes. Most chug up to 4-5 years. They however, are ugly as sin. The nice looking ones are higher end models.
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Offline Roven

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2011, 12:53:03 PM »
Unboxing the asus U46s...

Offline vuzedome

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2011, 12:58:17 PM »
Well that was fast. So tell us what you think of it.
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Offline Roven

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2011, 04:46:30 PM »
I've already did half my research before I made this thread so...

So far so good, feels really sturdy a bit havier than I thought though. Must be the battery, which have lasted me 6 hours right now, but I'm not doing anything but browsing, not using battery saving mode though.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2011, 05:13:54 PM »
^ thats a good sign, most likely it'll last about 1-3hrs during heavy stress tests, which is really a good sign. this should point out that gaming on it would last you about 3-4hrs on batteries and about 4-6hrs while watching 720p-1080p movies but not the Hi10P, that eats quite alot of CPU power.

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Offline AnimeJanai

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Re: Picking a laptop.
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2011, 12:11:44 AM »
The new economy laptops are surprisingly nice looking unlike those of prior years.   At Sam's Club today, there were $399 and $499 laptops from Acer, Toshiba, and HP.  All of them looked pretty good.  Their resolutions were 1600 x 900 though.  Humbug.