Hi10P and 8-bit encodes

[Remak]

I don't understand any of this, but I voted to keep both options. At least I think that is what this option meant. "Yes, we should treat both 10-bit and 8-bit releases equally."  . If that's not can  I move my vote to the right choice I wanted. 

[Daiz]

Can't see the diff between 720p and fullHD on those 20" screens desktoppers use

Ever heard of something called "viewing distance"? People usually sit a lot closer to their monitors than their TVs, and at such distances difference between actual 720p and 1080p material is quite obvious even on smaller screens, like it is on my 24" 1920x1200 screen.

I suggest you stop posting instead of embarrassing yourself any further with mindless and ignorant statements like this.

[DmonHiro]

Lol, seriously?!
1080p rips, whatever colour bitrate, whatever overall bitrate, would never even exist if the fansubbed audience wasn't using HDTVs and projectors and whatnot hooked up via vga/hdmi/dvi to their pcs/notebooks/netbooks/tablets (yeah, even those have tvouts nowadays).

Then why don't you just connect your goddamn PC to the HDTV in the first place?

Also, as Daiz said, the distance at which you watch the screen matters most. The bigger the distance from the screen, the larger the screen needs to be to get the best viewing experience. If I'm sitting 2 meters away from my TV, 720p on a 31 inch will look great. If I'm sitting 5 meters away, I'm going to want a larger screen, maybe a 50 inch TV. If I'm sitting in front of my PC, at 0.5 meters, a 20 inch monitor will suffice.

[Aadieu]

Can't see the diff between 720p and fullHD on those 20" screens desktoppers use

Ever heard of something called "viewing distance"? People usually sit a lot closer to their monitors than their TVs, and at such distances difference between actual 720p and 1080p material is quite obvious even on smaller screens, like it is on my 24" 1920x1200 screen.

I suggest you stop posting instead of embarrassing yourself any further with mindless and ignorant statements like this.

I ran a little test, and to occupy my entire field of vision the way my big screens do, my chin would have to be resting on the "J" key of my 16" laptop's keyboard. NOT LIKELY.

Considering the slightly bigger size of 24" displays, but also the larger size of display stands and desktop keyboards, I estimate that you chin would have to be located somewhere over you spacebar or "N" key for the same effect. NOT good for posture and probably not likely.

Lol, seriously?!
1080p rips, whatever colour bitrate, whatever overall bitrate, would never even exist if the fansubbed audience wasn't using HDTVs and projectors and whatnot hooked up via vga/hdmi/dvi to their pcs/notebooks/netbooks/tablets (yeah, even those have tvouts nowadays).

Then why don't you just connect your goddamn PC to the HDTV in the first place?

Also, as Daiz said, the distance at which you watch the screen matters most. The bigger the distance from the screen, the larger the screen needs to be to get the best viewing experience. If I'm sitting 2 meters away from my TV, 720p on a 31 inch will look great. If I'm sitting 5 meters away, I'm going to want a larger screen, maybe a 50 inch TV. If I'm sitting in front of my PC, at 0.5 meters, a 20 inch monitor will suffice.

Uh, A) I do. My problem with Hi10p, as I've said a number of times, is that it's not properly compatible with a lot of players, decoders, etc., thus making it a challenge to get it to look AS GOOD as an 8-bit rip of the same filesize from the same source. Post-processing 10bit is still a problem. And players are less-than-stable.

B) There's charts for this crap. Optimal viewing distance for 40" is 4-5 feet (LESS than 2m). For 6-7ft (~2m), suggested sizes are 50-55", not 31 inches.... and 20" is just too small to HAVE an optimal viewing distance for a good widescreen experience.

[DmonHiro]

B) There's charts for this crap. Optimal viewing distance for 40" is 4-5 feet (LESS than 2m). For 6-7ft (~2m), suggested sizes are 50-55", not 31 inches.... and 20" is just too small to HAVE an optimal viewing distance for a good widescreen experience.

Dude, relax, I was just making random examples. You really need to calm down. Now, if you already connect your PC to your HDTV, then what is your problem? Also, what are you talking about? A 10bit WILL look better then an 8bit at the same file size, as long as you're playing it on a computer. That's not just my opinion, it's pretty much fact.

[AceD]

I can't be the only person getting that, going around in circles feeling when reading a lot of these pages...

Every time it goes back to 10-bit not been compatible with toys as the only viable reason, before toys were very 8-bit h264 friendly did BBT give a fuck? no.
Download some remux off Nya

[Aadieu]

You lot a bit reading-comprehension-challenged or what?

THE PROBLEM IS INCOMPLETE SOFTWARE COMPATIBILITY.

Unless we want to read through kilometers of instructions on how to get uber-quality according to yet another blogger (subjective! and confusing!), with 10-bit, we're pretty much stuck with downloading one of the several players with out-of-the-box compatibility and clicking "default" for most settings. The moment you try to tweak it up to perfection, this and that turns out to be incompatible, and it's back to a morass of reading and trial and error...

Yeah, PotPlayer is currently ALMOST as good as KM, and it can play 10bit. It doesn't even look particularly fugly, either. But better than your average HD 8-bit release with a properly setup KM player? Heeeeell no it doesn't. A properly processed 720p 8-bit looks reliably better than any 1080p Hi10p played on compatible defaults using today's non-confusing onestop solutions.

And so far, for whatever reason, that less-banding promise? Not happening yet, some of the worst banding today is on 10bit sources:
FROM EVETAKU 720p 10bit BENTO torrent found here:


Plus it crashes every once in a while.

[tyrionlannister]

So  ,in short, 10-bit releases don't play exactly the way you want them to play, with whatever postprocessing you use in order to make them look subjectively better to your eyes, and because of this you're so butthurt? I can't say I have much sympathy for you.

Use CCCP standard, MPC HC, no "tweaks", with EVR CP, and you will have zero crashes, as  I can attest to.

Edit: Or, encode your own anime with your own settings for uber quality  so you won't have to deal with all the software incompatibilities.

[DmonHiro]

But better than your average HD 8-bit release with a properly setup KM player? Heeeeell no it doesn't. A properly processed 720p 8-bit looks reliably better than any 1080p Hi10p played on compatible defaults using today's non-confusing onestop solutions.

Wait... are you suggesting postprocessing DURING playback? Because if you are, I'm going to have to laugh and point at you for being stupid.

[Aadieu]

But better than your average HD 8-bit release with a properly setup KM player? Heeeeell no it doesn't. A properly processed 720p 8-bit looks reliably better than any 1080p Hi10p played on compatible defaults using today's non-confusing onestop solutions.

Wait... are you suggesting postprocessing DURING playback? Because if you are, I'm going to have to laugh and point at you for being stupid.

OK, maybe I called it the wrong term. Filters and stuff. WHATEVER... the whole point of watching somebody else's encodes was not having to know all this technical crap just to get a good viewing experience, no?

[DmonHiro]

OK, maybe I called it the wrong term. Filters and stuff. WHATEVER... the whole point of watching somebody else's encodes was not having to know all this technical crap just to get a good viewing experience, no?

Oh, filters. OK then. But now, in all seriousness, what technical crap are you talking about.

To get 10bit working you either go the minimal route: download and install CCCP and use MPC-HC.
If you want to get the best quality, you will have to give up on some CPU, and go the advanced route after getting CCCP:
- download and install lavfilters
- download and install madVR
- set up lav and mad to be used as default.

How is that complicated? It literally takes 15 minutes, and you don't even need to know what these things are. If you don't want to use them, that's your (and everyone else's problem, but THEY WORK).

If you don't have a good enough computer, that's not the software's fault, so you can't claim it sucks just because your pentium 4 from 2005 can't play it.

[Aadieu]

Right, I can't get 10bit to work. Really visible for that 10-bit screenshot of horrific banding I posted above...

...and the one-stop 10bit solution is Pot Player, not CCCP.

The technical crap is figuring out what works and what doesn't past defaults.

[DmonHiro]

Right, I can't get 10bit to work. Really visible for that 10-bit screenshot of horrific banding I posted above...
...and the one-stop 10bit solution is Pot Player, not CCCP.
The technical crap is figuring out what works and what doesn't past defaults.

OK, so use PotPlayer then. I still don't understand what your problem is. You say you have your PC connected to your HDTV. You say you have PotPlayer, the one stop solution. Then what the heck IS your problem? If you can't get 10bit to work, how is that anyone's fault but your own? Thousands and thousands of people have gotten it to work, do you think we're all some sort of super-genius with computers from the future? We're just average-joe's who read a guide, followed the steps, and used our brains.

[Aadieu]

I still don't understand what your problem is.

10-bit is FUGLY.

In practice, it is consistently WORSE than 8-bit releases at the moment.

Whatever possible gains there are, we either lose them and then some from imperfect software support, and encoders are still clueless on how to encode them properly. Look at that screenshot half a page up, DOES THAT LOOK LIKE LESS BANDING TO YOU?!?!

[DmonHiro]

10-bit is FUGLY.
In practice, it is consistently WORSE than 8-bit releases at the moment.
Whatever possible gains there are, we either lose them and then some from imperfect software support, and encoders are still clueless on how to encode them properly. Look at that screenshot half a page up, DOES THAT LOOK LIKE LESS BANDING TO YOU?!?!

Less banding then WHAT? If you want to make a comparison you have to show the exact same frame encoded from the exact same source at the exact same settings, with the only difference being the color depth. You can't just post a random picture and say "Look at all that banding, 10bit sucks!" without showing us how the 8bit and source look. How do I even know that picture if from a 10bit encode anyway? It could be upscaled from a 480p 8bit encode for all I know. Because you say so? Gonna need a little more then that.

[doll_licca]

10-bit is FUGLY.
In practice, it is consistently WORSE than 8-bit releases at the moment.
Whatever possible gains there are, we either lose them and then some from imperfect software support, and encoders are still clueless on how to encode them properly. Look at that screenshot half a page up, DOES THAT LOOK LIKE LESS BANDING TO YOU?!?!

Less banding then WHAT? If you want to make a comparison you have to show the exact same frame encoded from the exact same source at the exact same settings, with the only difference being the color depth. You can't just post a random picture and say "Look at all that banding, 10bit sucks!" without showing us how the 8bit and source look. How do I even know that picture if from a 10bit encode anyway? It could be upscaled from a 480p 8bit encode for all I know. Because you say so? Gonna need a little more then that.

Too bad ScreenshotCompariso n is down, because I have several comparisons that meet that requirement perfectly. 

[Aadieu]

10-bit is FUGLY.
In practice, it is consistently WORSE than 8-bit releases at the moment.
Whatever possible gains there are, we either lose them and then some from imperfect software support, and encoders are still clueless on how to encode them properly. Look at that screenshot half a page up, DOES THAT LOOK LIKE LESS BANDING TO YOU?!?!

Less banding then WHAT?

...

 How do I even know that picture if from a 10bit encode anyway? It could be upscaled from a 480p 8bit encode for all I know. Because you say so? Gonna need a little more then that.

Less banding than anything. That screen is pure banding.

Download ep1 of EveTaku's Bento 720p Hi10p and find out. Or look through my seed list and see what kind of Bento I'm known to have on my harddrive.

Or, I dunno, maybe realize that if we start distrusting what files people attribute screencaps to on bakabt, then all hell breaks loose considering how EVERY decision-making process, from selection to approval to what users choose to download, is based on screencaps???

[DmonHiro]

Then show me some actual comparisons. I'm not saying it's not possible for a 10bit encode to look worse then a 8 bit one. Hell, I can find 480p encodes better then some 1080p encodes. But even if you find 1000 such comparisons, I can find 1000 where the 10bit looks better then the 8 bit. It's meaningless either way. This is not, and has never been a general accepted rule (that 10bit is automatically better then 8 bit). Always had BakaBT decided on a case by case basis. If 100 8bit encodes are better then their 10bit counterparts, then they shall be accepted. Nobody here said that 10bit will be automatically accepted. It will be accepted IF AN ONLY IF it is the best version. That means that if there's a better looking 8bit, it will be chosen.

What you are saying is that ALL 10bit encodes look worse then their 8 bit counterparts. That's just pain wrong. If that were the case, then why were 10bit encodes chosen over the 8bit variants? Why do you insist that all 10bit encodes look ugly? You're the only one who says that, have you considered that perhaps the problem is on your end?

[RedSuisei]

@Aadieu: The problem is that you said 10-bit has more banding than 8-bit, but you only gave a screenshot of the 10-bit encode. If you really want to show people what you mean, then you need to show a screenshot of the 8-bit encode as well. Preferably it should be encoded at the exact same settings from exact same source with exact same filters, but if you just post a screenshot of the same frame from the 8-bit version by EveTaku as well, and it does show less banding than the 8-bit, then you will at least present your point in a more acceptable manner. You can't say "This looks worse than XXX" when we don't even know ow XXX looks like. Even then, that will most likely just the case with EveTaku's version, and not something that applies globally, as I have seen much more releases where 10-bit is superior to 8-bit.

@doll_licca: You can use the age-old method of uploading both to a image hosting site. Screenshotcompariso n.com is convenient, but even without that you can still make proper comparisons.

[cyberbeing]

Download ep1 of EveTaku's Bento 720p Hi10p and find out.

Downloaded EveTaku's Ben-to 01 Hi10p, took a screenshot of frame 727...what banding?


No clue what your screenshot is from, but it certainly doesn't seem to be EveTaku's Hi10p release.