BakaBT > Announcements
Hi10P and 8-bit encodes
DmonHiro:
I'm in the middle of downloading EveTaku's 1st Ben-To episode in both 8 and 10 bits. I will them present a series of comparison shots.
RedSuisei:
@DmonHiro: If not too much problem for you, to make sure there won't be any more bitching, please take the screenshots using standard CCCP installation (without tweaking etc. Meaning: ffdshow video decoder, standard vsfilter, and EVR-CP). This is to prevent people from saying that to get correct results you'd need to tweak your player correctly.
mistie710:
This whole thread reminds me of somebody on rec.arts.anime.misc many years ago who referred to himself as "SpuerGenius" (yes, that is how he spelled it!) who stirred up the entire group because he was of the opinion that we should all upgrade our kit to the latest and greatest and that we shouldn't moan about our problems if we didn't. Of course, that was a long time ago now and we weren't talking about watching video on computers but the same thing comes to mind.
On one side, we have people arguing that we shouldn't adopt Hi10p as a standard quality because they can't play it. No doubt most of these folk are viewing on machines that are a little older and that may struggle with higher quality stuff but can't or won't go out and do what is necessary to upgrade.
On the other side we have people arguing that those that can't play Hi10p should change what they view their downloads on. Chances are that many of these folks have already upgraded to higher spec machines and would like to get the best possible result out of them.
My own thought is that the very reason why we are having such a discussion, especially given the vehement exchanges on occasion, might indicate that the time isn't quite right yet, but that we must consider that the time is coming and cannot be avoided forever. I don't necessarily like to be an early adopter because I've been stung that way too many times, but I realise that I can't stand still.
That's how I see it, anyway. ;)
Aadieu:
--- Quote from: cyberbeing on January 02, 2012, 08:58:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Aadieu on January 02, 2012, 08:35:05 PM ---Download ep1 of EveTaku's Bento 720p Hi10p and find out.
--- End quote ---
Downloaded EveTaku's Ben-to 01 Hi10p, took a screenshot of frame 727...what banding?
No clue what your screenshot is from, but it certainly doesn't seem to be EveTaku's Hi10p release.
--- End quote ---
If you're looking for red circles and yellow text - that part was added by me.
Otherwise, your screenshot appears to be the same. With loads of banding.
--- Quote from: RedSuisei on January 02, 2012, 08:51:33 PM ---@Aadieu: The problem is that you said 10-bit has more banding than 8-bit, but you only gave a screenshot of the 10-bit encode. If you really want to show people what you mean, then you need to show a screenshot of the 8-bit encode as well. Preferably it should be encoded at the exact same settings from exact same source with exact same filters, but if you just post a screenshot of the same frame from the 8-bit version by EveTaku as well, and it does show less banding than the 8-bit, then you will at least present your point in a more acceptable manner. You can't say "This looks worse than XXX" when we don't even know ow XXX looks like. Even then, that will most likely just the case with EveTaku's version, and not something that applies globally, as I have seen much more releases where 10-bit is superior to 8-bit.
--- End quote ---
Let me put it another way (as before someone asked for proof):
I'm not saying 8-bit is better. I'm just saying that I, so far, fail to see any benefit of 10-bit. Certainly no jaw-dropping OMFG moments. The couple times I've watched 10-bit stuff, it looked average. Mediocre. Nothing special. And the promised benefits? Better 10-bit colour, nope, don't have any such big screens on the market. Less banding? I dunno, I've seen loads of banding in all 10-bit rips I've watched. Since no one believed me, I provided proofpics. Space saving? I still say the best way to save space is to ask someone from Mazui to teach you how to encode 720p properly...
The purported benefits, if they even exist, appear to be miniscule. Meanwhile, the topic is causing a shitstorm. Is it worth it? Not from where I'm standing.
RedSuisei:
--- Quote from: Aadieu on January 02, 2012, 09:26:29 PM ---If you're looking for red circles and yellow text - that part was added by me.
Otherwise, your screenshot appears to be the same. With loads of banding.
--- End quote ---
It seems you have a problem with your display (or maybe your eyes). I certainly don't see any banding in cyberbeing's shots. Even if there are any, it certainly doesn't look like your screenshot, which suggests you have a problem with both your player and your display (or eyes, maybe)
--- Quote from: Aadieu on January 02, 2012, 09:26:29 PM --- I'm not saying 8-bit is better.
--- End quote ---
What?
--- Quote from: Aadieu ---In practice, it is consistently WORSE than 8-bit releases at the moment.
--- End quote ---
Sure, you're not saying 8-bit is better, but you did say 10-bit is worse than 8-bit. Wait...
--- Quote from: Aadieu on January 02, 2012, 09:26:29 PM ---
I'm just saying that I, so far, fail to see any benefit of 10-bit. Certainly no jaw-dropping OMFG moments. The couple times I've watched 10-bit stuff, it looked average. Mediocre. Nothing special. And the promised benefits? Better 10-bit colour, nope, don't have any such big screens on the market. Less banding? I dunno, I've seen loads of banding in all 10-bit rips I've watched. Since no one believed me, I provided proofpics. Space saving? I still say the best way to save space is to ask someone from Mazui to teach you how to encode 720p properly...
--- End quote ---
Do improvements have to be jaw-dropping? While in most comparisons I've seen, the difference is pretty jaw-dropping already (at least when seen with my eyes and my display), any improvement is still an improvement.
Oh yeah, Mazui's rips aren't that good anyways. And please do not speak about how to encode properly when you're not an encoder yourself.
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