Author Topic: Comcast should be sued...again.  (Read 6044 times)

Offline datora

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2012, 01:09:59 AM »
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Anyway, how would using a VPN help? You still have to send packets to that, which first go through the ISP, and then packets come back through the ISP.

Those packets are encrypted, and going to I.P addresses that are not suspect.  To shut down anything (including & especially large transfers) traveling over a VPN will piss off several tens of thousands of businesses that provide billions upon billions of $$$s in income for ISPs.

Just because packets are encrypted is not reasonable cause to suspect, and suspecting something is not grounds to take action.  There has to be some sort of evidence to found an investigation, conclusion and then actions upon.


I've never looked into it, so I don't actually know anything about it

Not to put too fine a point on it ... but *ahem* take an hour to search teh webz about VPNs and get a basic education.  You'll understand why VPN is one good, basic solution that can be adopted immediately.  Certainly it is not a forever solution, and there are other things that can be done in addition to a VPN.


It'd be like having a bus driver go to a place they know they shouldn't and expecting them to not notice?

Hmm.  Let's try a similar analogy.

Suppose it's a network of commuter trains in a large city, like New York.  A lot of stops have very heavy traffic.  Some stops are in districts known to be high "crime" areas, others are in business & trade districts.  And, some trains are made of glass while others are lead-shielded steel.

Open torrenting is like using a glass train to visit a known high "crime" district, and then using certain stops to offload & load huge amounts of goods in glass boxes that the "authorities" can video tape at will and examine at their leisure.

A VPN is like visiting a legitimate trade district and using well-known loading docks to pick up your goods, which are in steel shipping containers, which you place on steel, lead-lined trains with all the other legal shipping traffic for delivery to your computer.  Nobody knows what you've picked up or has any opportunity to see the contents of the packets in transit.  All the torrenting activity takes place at the loading dock with the rest of the world, not between the loading dock and your house.

To stretch it a little further, imagine that the "trade district" is outside of the jurisdiction of New York ... perhaps located in the Netherlands or Russia.  The "authorities" in those jurisdictions couldn't care less about and make no attempt to observe the packets at those loading docks ... so there is no actionable evidence by the ISP to attempt to pry into those packets.  And they lack the authority to try.

Additionally, if the ISP decides to penalize everyone using the foreign trade districts, they will piss off a huge number more paying customers ... big business customers with gigantic, billable service contracts that keep stock holders in the ISPs very happy ... than the few people attempting to "smuggle" a few DVDs home for personal use.

All the uploading is taking place on another ISPs bandwidth in a foreign jurisdiction, so the U.S. ISPs have less than zero interest in knowing anything about it.  In fact, they would have to breech numerous international laws to try & do so.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 01:12:25 AM by datora »
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Offline Pentium100

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2012, 01:45:08 AM »
You may 'mask' where those packets ultimately went, but the VPN itself can be tracked to, and could be recognized as a piracy tool, couldn't it?

VPNs are also used by people who work from home to connect to their work network. However, you could find out that the VPN is used to connect to "AwesomePirateVPN" VPN provider and not some random company. The ISP cannot find out what information is carried in those packets, also, depending on where the VPN provider is, it can be really difficult to track the user from the other end of the tunnel (depends on how easy it is to force the VPN provider to tell the law enforcement who the user is).
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Offline NaRu

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2012, 08:19:50 PM »
Comcast new cap is going to be 300GB per month and charge $10 for every 50GB over that.

Offline JarieSuicune

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2012, 12:57:12 AM »
Hm... so, they can't even get what the target IP's past the VPN are?

Heh... that's pretty nice range, I think (if they's gotta have a cap).

Offline Pentium100

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2012, 01:27:01 AM »
Hm... so, they can't even get what the target IP's past the VPN are?

No, they can't. The whole IP packet is encrypted and put into another IP packet. This IP packet goes to the VPN server, which decrypts the original packet and sends it to the destination. Basically it goes like this:

Simplified original packet (sent by uTorrent etc):
To: 1.2.3.4 (another peer)
From: 9.8.7.6 (IP provided by the VPN server)
Data: "movie"

This gets intercepted by the VPN service in your PC and gets encrypted and put into another packet (this is what the ISP sees):
To: 5.6.7.8 (VPN server)
From: 1.1.1.1 (your actual IP)
Data: "Encrypted"

The VPN server gets it, decrypts the "data" portion and sends what it gets:
To: 1.2.3.4
From: 9.8.7.6
Data: "movie"

The VPN server sends out your original packet, but the ISP does not see it, it is like you made a tunnel trough your ISP - the ISP knows where the end points are, but does not see what goes inside it. This method (putting an ancrypted IP packet inside another packet) is called "tunneling" for that reason.

Anybody who intercepts the decrypted packet (with the movie) does know the contents, but the packet can only be traced back to the VPN server and if the server does not keep logs for long (or at all), there is not way to know which costomer actually sent that packet.
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Offline JarieSuicune

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2012, 01:39:12 AM »
Ah, I see! Hm, interesting. ^_^ Thank you!

Packet in a packet... that never would have occurred to me, but it makes sense. -_-;

Offline SirSkyRider

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2012, 02:01:29 AM »
Comcast new cap is going to be 300GB per month and charge $10 for every 50GB over that.

Every "full" 50 GB or every "started" 50 GB?

Bandwith caps had been long gone here as well, but I still remember the first time I went over that. Our bill went up from 50€ to over 120€.  :o

Offline FlyinPenguin

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2012, 10:47:39 AM »
Comcast new cap is going to be 300GB per month and charge $10 for every 50GB over that.

Pretty damn cheap compared to mobile bandwidth overages.

Luckily, I don't have to worry about that since I got grandfathered into truly unlimited data on Verizon and have an awesome ISP for my conventional internet.

Isn't the solution here just to abide by your contract or get a new ISP though? I mean, this was all either stated in your original contract or made clear the terms could change with or without notice. They have a right to set the terms for the service they provide to people who chose to sign up on their own free will.

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Offline NaRu

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2012, 07:33:29 PM »
Comcast new cap is going to be 300GB per month and charge $10 for every 50GB over that.

Every "full" 50 GB or every "started" 50 GB?

Bandwith caps had been long gone here as well, but I still remember the first time I went over that. Our bill went up from 50€ to over 120€.  :o

lets say you used 301GB one month. You will get charge $10 for another 50GB added.

Also this might be just for the lowest tier they offer. Comcast might give you more if you have Blast or any Extreme tier speeds

Offline B-Clark

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #89 on: May 31, 2012, 11:32:37 PM »
The upper tier of Comcast Business Internet has 50 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up; 105 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up;
and now 105 Mb/s down - 20 Mb/s up.
The problem is that they want over $500/month for that last one.

I don't utilize all of the 50Mb/s down, but I'm running 90% of the 10 Mb/s up 24/7 seeding torrents.
uTorrent says 2.2TB every 30 days.

I need more upload speed, NOT download speed.
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Offline Pentium100

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #90 on: June 01, 2012, 02:21:04 AM »
The upper tier of Comcast Business Internet has 50 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up; 105 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up;
and now 105 Mb/s down - 20 Mb/s up.
The problem is that they want over $500/month for that last one.

Wow. I pay ~23EUR/month for a 300/300 connection with no cap. However, as the connection is residential class, the speed fluctuates quite a bit (sometimes it's only 20 or 30mbps). Still, I manage to upload 20-30TB/month. I download less than 1TB/month (upload and download statistics include everything - BitTorrent, Youtube, ACK packets etc).
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Offline megido-rev.M

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2012, 02:29:35 AM »
The upper tier of Comcast Business Internet has 50 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up; 105 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up;
and now 105 Mb/s down - 20 Mb/s up.
The problem is that they want over $500/month for that last one.

Wow. I pay ~23EUR/month for a 300/300 connection with no cap. However, as the connection is residential class, the speed fluctuates quite a bit (sometimes it's only 20 or 30mbps). Still, I manage to upload 20-30TB/month. I download less than 1TB/month (upload and download statistics include everything - BitTorrent, Youtube, ACK packets etc).

Damn, the best speeds available to my area only barely match your worst speeds :P.

Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #92 on: June 01, 2012, 04:41:38 AM »
Comcast new cap is going to be 300GB per month and charge $10 for every 50GB over that.

That's probably the cheapest overage fee I've seen so far, when you consider it's $0.20/GB at the lowest (i.e. when you use exactly 50GB).

Offline F1ForFun

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #93 on: June 01, 2012, 06:33:52 AM »
Surprisingly, Comcast has never given me a problem. While I hate their business tactics, I have to say I'm completely content with their service. This is my current connection.



I pay $42.69 ($39.99 before taxes) a month for this connection, and get free cable along with it. Though, I haven't watched television in about a year. If I'm at home, I'm either watching anime or playing Guitar Hero.

My friends and family all seem to have terrible experiences with them though. I suppose it's because they think the answer to resolving issues with their service is calling up Customer Support and being a huge douche. I treat any rep over the phone with as much respect as I possibly can, and it has yielded nothing but favorable returns.

Offline NaRu

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #94 on: June 01, 2012, 01:32:31 PM »
The upper tier of Comcast Business Internet has 50 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up; 105 Mb/s down - 10 Mb/s up;
and now 105 Mb/s down - 20 Mb/s up.
The problem is that they want over $500/month for that last one.

I don't utilize all of the 50Mb/s down, but I'm running 90% of the 10 Mb/s up 24/7 seeding torrents.
uTorrent says 2.2TB every 30 days.

I need more upload speed, NOT download speed.
.

Im going to be getting Comcast Extreme 105 in July. Since I have Comcast TV and phones as well it only cost $120 a month. When I move to the next town over I will be getting Cablevision internet instead. Since I work for Cablevision I will be getting 101Mbps down 15Mbps up for $40 a month and free TV and phones.

Offline nstgc

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #95 on: June 01, 2012, 03:17:41 PM »
Surely your usage will drop when they start snatching pirates July 1st right?

Offline B-Clark

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #96 on: June 01, 2012, 04:06:46 PM »
Surely your usage will drop when they start snatching pirates July 1st right?

If they start going after anime torrents, since I don't do American movies.

BakaBT would also go down, as the tracker contact.
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Offline NaRu

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #97 on: June 01, 2012, 04:08:19 PM »
Surely your usage will drop when they start snatching pirates July 1st right?

The only way the ISP can see what you are downloading is using deep-packet inspection which kills your bandwidth. The best method for ISP to see what you are downloading is tracking the DNS servers they host. They are going to find people who are using the ISP's DNS servers and those who don't have encrypted connection. Another way to can do it is if you use their router they give you or those modem/router.

To get around all of this is to use a different DNS (I use google's DNS servers 8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4). Also use utorrent's encrypted setting. When I didn't use any protection Comcast sent me letters letting me know that I'm downloading copyrighted materials. Switching to Google's DNS and have encrypted settings on uTorrent they stopped.

Worst case if they can get around that (pretty much snatching data from google) You can always use a private VPN over seas with a encrypted tunnel.

To have perfect protection is to use IRC
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 04:10:33 PM by NaRu »

Offline B-Clark

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #98 on: June 01, 2012, 04:16:24 PM »
Comcast new cap is going to be 300GB per month and charge $10 for every 50GB over that.

That's probably the cheapest overage fee I've seen so far, when you consider it's $0.20/GB at the lowest (i.e. when you use exactly 50GB).

Until you figure the cost of approx 2400GB per month (up + down: uTorrent) PLUS DDLs and browsing overhead, that uTorrent does NOT track.
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Offline NaRu

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Re: Comcast should be sued...again.
« Reply #99 on: June 01, 2012, 04:31:40 PM »
Comcast new cap is going to be 300GB per month and charge $10 for every 50GB over that.

That's probably the cheapest overage fee I've seen so far, when you consider it's $0.20/GB at the lowest (i.e. when you use exactly 50GB).

Until you figure the cost of approx 2400GB per month (up + down: uTorrent) PLUS DDLs and browsing overhead, that uTorrent does NOT track.
.

I use netlimiter to track how much data is being downloading/uploading on my network.