building a new comp with a really tight buget

[kitamesume]

^ case structure is of my last concerns, the only purpose i'd need a case for is to hold the parts in them and not to put a truck on top of it.
layman's term: i don't need a vault to hold a penny.

also, waiting for something too long is a waste itself, nor being impatient and buying something too early. if you don't get what i mean, it means that if you wait yea sure you could get something worth it, but waiting too long would be disadvantageous for you when you're in a hurry, but buying too early might be disadvantageous because you kind of wasted your money because a better product just came out with the same price after a few days later.
well everything has it's pros and cons, the only deciding factor is IF you need it now or not.

[krumm]

I know buying a more expensive case adds to the budget, but it is almost always worth it.  I'm not saying pay a ton for it, but you get what you pay for it.  Steal and connectors are not free, so when you go cheep that metal gets thin and flimsy.

The plus of paying 50-60ish dollars on a mid-tower is that you can use it on your next computer even if it is 5 years from now.

Now back to the cpu debate.  Dual care sandy bridge will play video fine.  My laptop has a old 2.2GHz core 2 duo and it plays all videos I throw at it and a few games.  I don't know how well it will play the newest of games, but I bet the ATi HD4650 is the problem not the cpu.  If you want I can install skyrim and see how it handles it, but my point is just because the i3-2100 is a dual core don't think that is a big deal.  I'm sure it blows my laptop out of the water.  The big difference between the i3 and amds cpu is going to be the IGP.  With the amd the upgradability is unknown but with intel you know that ivy bridge will be good(as long as kita is right about the socket not changing I've not looked).  If you get a GPU even later the reason for the amd is gone.

I would get the AMD if the IGP is all you need, but if it's not and upgradability is concern intel is the way to go even with the slightly higher buy in.  The cpu power is similar between the two.

A little more on ram.  Windows uses more ram if it has more it can use.  just because you use 4GB when you have 8GB does not mean you will with 4GB.  The nice thing about ram is that the price is linear.  4GB is around $20 and 8GB is around $40 so holding off and starting with 4GB is fine.  One thing of note is that if you fill all ram slots it can make it harder to over clock.  I would only cut ram back in the intel build, because of amds IGP.

If you don't cut corners, you should be happy with both the AMD and the Intel builds. 

[kitamesume]

^ not entirely, if the case was fairly constructed then even if the metal sheets used are too thin then it can last long, i got a case here with metal sheets as thin as paper and its still alive. if you'd think about it, it wouldn't have a reason to breakdown, specially aluminum cases, if it's not subjected to heavy stress like putting tons of books on top of it, and no, strapping a mobo and a few harddisk doesn't give it enough stress to lose durability.

CPU debate is indeed leaning on intel when its upgradability since the Llano is a dead end while the LGA1155 will be reused for another year(ivy bridge). but on current performance, the Llano has a lead because it can overclock and when paired with an HD6670(yea sadly this is the highest possible hybrid crossfire) it's performance skyrockets enough to pass that of an i3 paired with the same GPU, though performance gap shrinks when you introduce higher tier GPUs and when you factor in performance/watt since the i3 can be downvolted to exhibit a really big drop in power consumption.

the ram's size/price isn't linear, i've already posted an example of the same line of production and the price shrinks per additional GB introduced, same applies with SSDs and HDDs, the bigger the capacity gets the smaller you pay for.
to note: looking at different capacities and comparing them against other manufacturer and other line of production is unfair.

[$39.99]Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
VS
[$24.99]Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
note: 15$ more and you get another 4GB? i'll take it.

overall i'd say the intel path has more viable options than the amd counterpart, though you save money with the amd counterpart.

[datora]

.

[ EDIT:  Even without the rebate is not too shabby @$35 delivered:

Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX12V V2.2 Intel Core i7 Compliant Dual 80mm Fans Full Cable Sleevings Power Supply
Average Rating 4 out of 5 eggs(2,614 reviews) - 2011 Reader Choice Award: Best Power Supply

w/ rebate, $23.00. ]

@ ur PSU- it doesnt seem to have the 80+ rating
i believe that 80+ ratings will help me save in the long run by reducing heating and electricity costs
i will keep checking for cases and i do prefer big cases as they provide more airflow

---------------------------------------edit-----------------------------------------

found this case
seems pretty decent if i mount a few fans on it

Your concern w/ the 80+ rating is valid, to a degree.  However, keep in mind that the energy savings on that are targeted at the larger PSUs.  So, if you were getting a 500W or 650 or 1250 AND you were going for a mad gaming GPU (or two) AND you were overclocking, you would see a much more noticeable energy savings.

The budget rig you are targeting probably will actually be using well under 300W.  Recall at the start of this thread we were looking at 300W/350W PSUs, now we're at 400W and maybe more only to add to the comfort zone.  The components all listed above for the final build do not add up to very much power use, perhaps as low as 200W or under.  So, yeah, I agree that an 80+ is desirable, but keep an open mind.

I suggested that Thermaltake PSU due to name brand rep and the ratings by customers.  I give serious consideration to anything at newegg w/ a rating of 85% or higher 4 or 5 eggs combined, especially if there are more than 100 ratings.


However, also for consideration, newegg is running a 15% discount on all Corsair PSUs for a few more days.  This one:

 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026

would be $45 -15% = ~$40 + $2 shipping, but has a $20 rebate.  I didn't add it because, skimming customer comments, there are a noticeable number of reports of this dying after about a year.  It does have 80+ rating and it is Corsair, so warranty covers it for short-term failure ... but didn't really give me a warm feeling for a recommend.


As far as the case, I'm happy with plain & simple.  Plus: lots of drive capacity & handles 7-slot mobo for future reuse.  All that unused HDD space also translates into increased airflow.

Minus's on that case: no fans included (which can be Good), and it uses top-mounted PSU ... more modern builds place the PSU on the bottom and cool/vent it without impacting internal airflow/temps.  Buying your own fans will cost a few bucks, like about $8-$10 each ... but that is for quality fans (Xigmatech, for example) that are quiet (~20dBA rating or under) & push real air, like ~70 cubic feet per minute or more.  A budget case including its own fans usually uses cheap ones that are noisy, rated at lower cfm, and tend to fail after a year or two.

[kitamesume]

^thermaltake's TR2 reviews are bad, might wanna change your opinion about them.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-Purepower-430W-NP-Power-Supply-Review/332/7

i've been watching corsair PSU reviews and they're satisfactory specially their entry budget PSUs, little voltage drops and minimal ripples, most of their lines stays above 80% efficiency as well.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/CX430_V2/5.html

Edit: oh yea, since OP mentioned about wanting to upgrade then he'll be locked with the intel path since the AMD's is a dead end, also the A8-3850 is in the tops of Llano, only second to A8-3870K, so that puts it in a position of not going to have any upgradability at all. unless he loves to waste alot of money by replacing the CPU+mobo after a short while which usually has the largest percentage of the overall cost of the unit.
though if he changes his mind then he could stick with the AMD's and let it live for a few years before replacing it with a better rig.

[krumm]

Always look at a good review for PSUs.  hardwaresecrets.com is the best I've found.  They check everything and test in a 50c hot box.  Also be careful of bad reviews. here is a good article from hardwaresecrets on it.  They also got a list of other good review sites for PSUs.

I like the Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D my self, but I don't have one and can't find a 2ed full review.  AnandTech is the only one I can find except a round up from tomshardware.  They do both give it a rec.  It also has 5 eggs rating on newegg with over 300 ratings.  It has also been around for some time and no real complaints of burning up after some use.

If I was to buy a budget PSU right now, this is the one I'd get.  The only issue I have with it is that it does not come with a power cord.  That is not a problem for me as I have a box full, but it could be for someone else.

[datora]

.
This might be worth considering for your hard drive solution:

HITACHI 0Y30055 500GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Notebook Drive
$79.99 - $20 off w/ promo code EMCNHJN22, ends 2/16

Advantages:

 - reliable brand
 - low energy
 - low noise
 - in a desktop, almost impossible to destroy
 - about as cheap as it gets per GB right now

Disadvantages:
 - 5400 rpm / low speed: "only" SATA 3.0 GB/s
 - low cache (8 MB; 16 MB would certainly be preferred)
 - "only" 500 GB
 - was $49.99 just a few weeks ago
 - creative adaptation to 3.5" bay might be necessary

The thought here is to keep your costs low for budget build for your immediate purchase, either to save the money or invest it in higher end hardware elsewhere in the build.  For example: what would an extra $50 buy you in CPU capacity?

The intention would be that this drive is slated for an upgrade "when possible" in a few months.  You get your whole system built & running immediately, and it will do everything you need that I can determine from this topic.  At SATA II speeds on SATA III compliant mobo, you will have quite a perky system overall.  Yes, you would suffer a bit on higher end games, or some other disk-intensive software ... but you've not mentioned anything that really requires a 7200 rpm/ SATA III drive.  Apart from some increased Win7 performance.

And, frankly, slightly slow Win7 performance is something you could survive for 3 or 5 months while shopping carefully for a better drive.  The system you are considering now from the above specs is going to perform quite nicely, unless you mention said software that is disk-intensive.

Upgrade path:  I already recommended an SSD.  I repeat that recommendation.  Yes, there have been a few that are not reliable, that's what reviews are for: to locate those models and avoid.  There are other models that are reliable and blazing fast; careful shopping over a period of months and you can find one of those at an affordable price.

[ EDIT: ShellShocker just went up:

OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC

$142.99 - $30.00 rebate for 120 GB of SATA III SSD.  Reviews on this model are pretty solid; many of the eggs off I'm seeing are from absolute whiners pissing their diapers that a 3.5" to 2.5" drive cage plus SATA cables aren't included.  Boofuckinghoo.

Admittedly there are the usual more serious complaints, but they're relatively few in the overall pool of reviews.  Not suggesting you Buy It NAO!! but it is an example of what is possible when keeping an eye open.

I like the performance numbers a lot - especially pay attention to the sustained throughputs:

Sequential Read AS-SSD: 195 MB/s
Sequential Write AS-SSD: 130 MB/s

with burst rates up to 500 MB/s plus (on SATA III).

Also this:

2,000,000 hours Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF); it's at the top tier, often these are 1.5 mill or 1.2 mill.

These are the sort of stats you would look for in an SSD today; they're hard to beat.  I'll bet this one is sold out in about an hour or two. ]


Alternatively, again looking for bargains, try to snag one of the Seagate Momentus hybrid drives that use SSD technology & smart caching to enhance a 7200 rpm platter.  They still are "only" SATA II (in the affordable range), but a 250 or 320 GB one of these could perk up your boot/OS experience a good few percentage.  My caution on these is that I'd carefully check reviews on specific models; there have been reliability issues with both Seagate products and with specific Momentus models.  However, I've also seen certain of these models garnering very solid reviews.

The Hitachi drive then becomes the (or "a") data drive on your system, or you can buy an external enclosure (USB 3 recommended, often in the $15 range) and have it as lightening fast portable data storage/transfer.  BTW, I have a 250 GB Hitachi notebook drive using the SATA I (1.5 GB/s) spec in an external case.  It's been in service as a USB 2 data drive for close to five years now, and performed service as the boot drive for a WinXP/Ubuntu dual-boot desktop system for about 6 months in the middle of that time.  As of last month, according to various analysis utilities, it is about as healthy as the day I bought it.  Currently stores ~200GB of anime that I've watched and archives a lot of old(er) utility software, so it's effectively a "read-only" device right now when-needed.

Of course, you can also watch for drives in the Western Digital Caviar Black class to come on special, and (hopefully!) prices are finally dropping on those and something far more affordable will come along by about July.  The path I'm suggesting here buys you time to shop aggressively and carefully, meaning you might spend a little more at the end of it, but have more/better options at a Very Solid price/GB at the end of it, also.


So, just for imagination, let us say that you use the Hitachi drive + an SSD: your power supply requirements are reduced by a significant handful of watts ... so something like that 380W EarthWatts starts looking very tasty, even at it's premium price.

By The Way, I have an EarthWatts 620W (not "ecogreen" as I stated above), which I got for a ridiculously low price by stacking special + rebate ... so wait & watch carefully for a good deal.  You should be able to do better than the ~$47, I'd certainly think ~35 or under delivered.

[Nyking754]

ive placed the order for the parts my friend was willing to give me his 600w psu and case
gonna go for the intel build with the extra money

[kitamesume]

which intel? the i5 or the i3? the i3 would be a good option if you plan to upgrade after a little while since the ivy should be out before the up coming vacation ends, but the i5 is a sweet deal if you plan to stick with it for months, not necessarily years.

[Nyking754]

i5 but i dont really care about the new ivys
im not here looking to build a state of the art gaming rig lol

[kitamesume]

^ not at all, the ivy's worth isn't just it's speed, but it's lower power consumption, i'm talking about real monster quads @ 45watts.

[Malakai0]

Don't forget about AMD, great shit for cheap. Been running AMD/ati for over a decade now, currently running a slightly sub-4ghz quad phenom 2. This box is over 2yrs old and still runs like a beast. Heavily oc'ed tho, cpu is stock 3ghz.

[Slysoft]

when I looked at some benchmarks of the ivy vs sandy bridge, it seemed like ivy was only slightly better as far as processing however its IGP was much better. If you aren't going to be using the IGP though it doesn't seem like you would notice any difference.

[kitamesume]

^ivy isn't all about performance, it's power consumption, which is ridiculously low, is a huge plus in my book.
why you ask? lower TDP = cooler CPU = passive HSF = ? ? ? = profit!
cores/HT        model          clockspeed     turbo       IGP clock     IGP turbo    cache         TDP       Price
4 (Yes)    Core i7-3770        3.4 GHz      3.9 GHz    650 MHz    1150 MHz      8 MB      77 W        $332
4 (Yes)    Core i7-3770T       2.5 GHz      3.7 GHz    650 MHz    1150 MHz      8 MB      45 W       $294
4 (No)    Core i5-3570K       3.4 GHz      3.8 GHz    650 MHz    1150 MHz      6 MB      77 W       $225
4 (No)    Core i5-3570T       2.3 GHz      3.3 GHz    650 MHz    1150 MHz      6 MB      45 W       $205
down to 77watts from 95watts for the regular items, and 45watts for the low-power models.
to note, the "K" CPU's multiplier can go up to 63(6.3Ghz max OC anyone? or 105x63=6.6Ghz), in contrast to sandy's 57.

[Chiyachan]

Get a bigger budget.

[Malakai0]

PM us $$ plz <3



I need a new GPU, running skyrim at 1680x1050 instead of 1920x1200

[kitamesume]

^ i need 300$ more for me to get a decent netbook =( i'm starting to need one badly.