Are You Getting an Arts Degree?

[Bob2004]

I don't really get this idea that if you're doing an arts degree, it's not going to get you a job at the end of it. Sure, most of them don't lead directly into any well-paying field as such, but then that's not really the point. The majority of jobs requiring a university level education don't care what degree you have (so long as it's not something totally spurious like "Sports Science" or somesuch), they just want someone who has a degree. You learn so many more things from university than just the subject you're studying, and having a degree shows that you've gained that experience, and are capable of putting your head down, and doing the work needed to earn that qualification.

The majority of people studying, say, a law degree don't go on to become lawyers, for example. Most end up doing all kinds of different things, totally unrelated to their degree subject. While the subject does still matter to some extent (I imagine "Law" or "Physics" look better to a potential employer than "Art History" or "Philosophy" - no offence intended to people studying those), it's not all that important for most jobs.

As for me, for the record, I'm currently studying for a Joint Honours in Business Studies & Japanese. It's a fairly obscure subject; there aren't that many careers that require being fluent in Japanese, but I know that it will still come in handy in many areas of my life, and that even if I don't end up as a translator or something, I can easily get a well-paid job in any company somewhere and earn a good salary from the start. And the business side can only help with that.

[criver]

@metro: I'm currently studying music and I can tell you it's no joke studying composition, orchestral conducting, harmony, solfege etc. So no - not all people studying arts are lazying their asses off and partying like crazy.

[SirSkyRider]

@metro: I'm currently studying music and I can tell you it's no joke studying composition, orchestral conducting, harmony, solfege etc. So no - not all people studying arts are lazying their asses off and partying like crazy.

Don't you even have to take tests to get into music or art academies?

I remember a friend of mine who studies trombone (he's awesome btw) having to take tests to get into a conservatory/music academy.

[harpy]

I had my youth, I had my foolish thoughts and I had my sanity and it all ended up in me getting masters degree in philosophy and loosing my sanity, well at least my peace of mind. I do not regret it to much, now I think of getting some kind of degree in psychology. Philosophy and psychology go well together.  And no I do not think about future jobs, I do plan to enjoy my life as much as I can, before I absolutely have to dive into all the routine and serious part of it.
Yes, I do not like most mathematics based sciences, I find them to be quite boring. I also do not like dealing with people, so no social silences for me.
I think I could get some kind of degree in some kind of languages, translating would be a nice job for me. I was thinking about Spanish/Italian/Portuguese will see, not like I have anywhere to hurry to, I am only 27

Do not touch philosophy. If you just touch it a bit, you will just sound like one of these foolish people who knows many long and hard words, but don't actually know how to use them. If you touch it properly you will get quite a nice perspectives on things, you will understand things better, you will be able to fit all the peaces together better you will have wider view on the world and so on, but you will most likely will not be as happy as you were before and you will not be able to enjoy stuff like reading a proper book, having a simple conversation, liking stupid people, liking young people well the simple things in life and on top of that it is a lot harder to find people to talk with about stuff you like, a lot harder then finding people you can talk about anime, anime is quite popular. Philosophy is popular as well, but most of people talking about it just have glanced at it and its no fun, to talk about it with someone who knows about and most likely do not really understand it.

As for being in uni - yeah I was drunk most of the time (more towards the end then in beginning), but its not like we had much to do if it was not exam time. All we had to do most of the time was reading 2-3 books a week, not really that hard once you have learned how to ready philosophy books and papers on it.  Exam time was hell with all the papers and exams and tests and so on and having to read a book a day to do a proper job at doing the exams. But it was just 2 months in year, so not that hard. Writing final papers was kind of hard, and master degree was kind of hard, but not that we had to forget about living in the rest of time.

Ha ha ha, I remember this one exam about Plato and Socrates and Aristotle, we had a symposium (you know vine, cookies, smokes and long long discussions in a group, there was a paper we also had to submit..or two, do not remember that), I know that I was quite drunk by the end of the exam  

@metro: I'm currently studying music and I can tell you it's no joke studying composition, orchestral conducting, harmony, solfege etc. So no - not all people studying arts are lazying their asses off and partying like crazy.

Don't you even have to take tests to get into music or art academies?

You dumb or what? One have to take exams or test or something of that sort to get in ANY KIND OF SCHOOL

Few of my friends study in academy of art.
Even ones who went to art section and not history of art section had exams >_> 
few of friends who went to music type of school had hellishly difficult exams.

I do understand that people who think of science and knowledge only as math or economic or law do not understand that stuff like art and music and so on is hard as well, but it does not change the fact that it is. Oh and yes - it is useful. It makes human human and not a machine and it makes human life fuller and it does provide pleasure most humans take for granted.

[SirSkyRider]

Don't you even have to take tests to get into music or art academies?

You dumb or what? One have to take exams or test or something of that sort to get in ANY KIND OF SCHOOL
[/quote]

No... I got into university just by showing them my Abitur grades. Here, only private academies or some subjects come with a test. I think this is quite different in your country.

[metro.]

Yay! People discussing with thinly veiled anger towards each other, exactly what I was aiming for!

As it turns out, I was correct in the assumption that people getting Arts degrees think they're difficult, which I find interesting. Regardless if they are or not, maybe it's just the way I think that makes them easy? But I took a second year Psych class last semester, and ended up with a better mark then most of the kids getting psych degrees. Not being like oh fuck I'm fantastic, I just think it's the mentality that you go into courses with.

I study hard, and often, and I think that that's probably the difference maker between getting an Arts degree and getting a different degree. As it's been brought up, Arts degrees "help you think" or something, but if you already think that way, regardless if it comes from Nature or Nurture, it makes those classes much easier. Just like having a photographic memory makes getting a Science degree quite a bit easier. Or a Law degree for that matter...

As pointed out, getting a degree means less now then it did even 10 years ago, thus it's a base requirement to become, for example, a middle manager. Honestly, that position seems like hell, it's the definition of a dead end job, and thus the idea of people aspiring to it is very hard for me to grasp. Yet, it would seem to many people that is the dream. Work a steady job, with a steady pay that doesn't change too much and isn't too challenging.

I think that's where the disconnect is, because that sounds like hell personified.

[SirSkyRider]

I wonder.

Well, getting a degree is always based on what standards your professors/lecturers have. If they have low standards, getting a degree is a piece of cake. If they have high standards, it may be a bit more difficult.

Before I switched to my current subjects, I was doing geography and biology. The standards with geography were pretty much the same as with art history now except for the idiotic bureaucracy that those fuckheads (sry for the expression) practiced - it drove me mad. I handed in a paper once which was good in terms of content and grammar/expression/etc. I still failed because I had a problem formatting something exactly the way they wanted. I failed because of a page number.

THAT has NOTHING to do with science or being a good and observant learner. THAT is a huge STUPIDITY.

[metro.]

Goes back to getting a degree is just learning how to get a job, Can you follow instructions?, was probably the methodology behind the fail.

Is it stupid? Fuck yes.

But things like that will happen regardless of the degree you get, I understand your frustration though, I'd associate shit with Geo if that happened to me too.

And I didn't already hate it.

[SirSkyRider]

lol.

Getting a degree and getting a job should be two different things. You go and study something because you are interested. If you only want a job you could as well do an apprenticeship.

Well, that's at least my view on this affair.

[metro.]

lol.

Getting a degree and getting a job should be two different things. You go and study something because you are interested. If you only want a job you could as well do an apprenticeship.

Well, that's at least my view on this affair.

So the only way you should get a job is to become a tradesmen?

Sorry, the jobs I want to do, don't have that kind of set up...

[SirSkyRider]

lol.

Getting a degree and getting a job should be two different things. You go and study something because you are interested. If you only want a job you could as well do an apprenticeship.

Well, that's at least my view on this affair.

So the only way you should get a job is to become a tradesmen?

Sorry, the jobs I want to do, don't have that kind of set up...

I'm not saying that. But if what you do doesn't at least interest you one bit, it's wasted time. Because if you don't like what you're doing, you'll fail.

Going to university and studying while paying for four to five years has at least have something to do with things you like. If you're saying you like what you're doing - OK, no problem there. But it defies the original purpose of a university to say that it exists only to get you a job. Because that is not the premise universities are built on.

[harpy]

Don't you even have to take tests to get into music or art academies?

You dumb or what? One have to take exams or test or something of that sort to get in ANY KIND OF SCHOOL

No... I got into university just by showing them my Abitur grades. Here, only private academies or some subjects come with a test. I think this is quite different in your country.
[/quote]

oh, well, we do have to pass an exam to get into a school if it is worth getting into. There are some that you just need money to get in.
As far as I know art schools always have exams, the rest of the schools might not have exams, just maoney donations...



@metro - people are dumb, schools would get out of business if it would be hard to get a degree. Even looking and exams that have to be taken after finishing elementary school one can think - ok, even I knew that in 5th grade....




In my country we do accept degrees from most countries, but not america. One can get a doctor degree there just by completing one year of master degree program here...mmm, or just finishing bachelor degree... forgot. Bac to the point - American culture makes the rest of the world as dumb as some of them are. There are loads of great minds there, but regrettably there are much more dumb ones as well
And its in fact good, its simpler to rule dumb people and there are to many people for them to be smart and be able to live together. Its sad that job applications do have to contain some kind of degree as most of the time one do not need any of that to do the job, it would be better if they got vocational education insted of crap they get.
I do agree doctors and chemists and people like that should get a degree...a few of them, but the rest of the world no not need them for job, but for themselves.

Besides - just because you pass the course it does not mean that you understand the subject even a parrot can repeat stuff
I know loads and loads pf parrots that kept on getting better grades then I did and flunked the final stuff   I not saying that I am any smarter then any of them, I am dumb as door nail, but I did understand what I said and did not just learn it by heart.

[metro.]

lol.

Getting a degree and getting a job should be two different things. You go and study something because you are interested. If you only want a job you could as well do an apprenticeship.

Well, that's at least my view on this affair.

So the only way you should get a job is to become a tradesmen?

Sorry, the jobs I want to do, don't have that kind of set up...

I'm not saying that. But if what you do doesn't at least interest you one bit, it's wasted time. Because if you don't like what you're doing, you'll fail.

Going to university and studying while paying for four to five years has at least have something to do with things you like. If you're saying you like what you're doing - OK, no problem there. But it defies the original purpose of a university to say that it exists only to get you a job. Because that is not the premise universities are built on.

Hm...I think I made this point. I'd rather do something that I like, but don't love, for four years to get to a job I love. Then the opposite, do something I love for four years, and then not love life for the rest of it.

I like Economics, understanding money and the motives behind peoples desires to buy, spend, or I suppose better, pursue, but I could never lock myself in Academia doing just that for the rest of my life.

It does however, open doors to the places that I want to end up.

[SirSkyRider]

A degree may be a door opener, but lemme tell you one thing: Networking is as important as having a good degree. Go somewhere, do an internship and leave a good impression. It may lead to you being recommended to other companies - or maybe even a job offer...

[metro.]

A degree may be a door opener, but lemme tell you one thing: Networking is as important as having a good degree. Go somewhere, do an internship and leave a good impression. It may lead to you being recommended to other companies - or maybe even a job offer...

I don't think my point is getting across very clear...

[abc cuz]

@metro
i don't know about your uni, but in mine you've got to have taken at least to 1st year psych papers to do any 2nd year psych course, so either you're bullshitting or your uni has much lower standards then mine. this would also explain why you'd be able to get a decent grade, other than the fact that the majority of students in second year course have settled in and are happy with average grades, not looking to prove themselves better than others like someone coming into the course for the first time and working a lot to get a better grade than them. there is a reason why the majority of grades are average, not high, because most people in all degrees are happy with average grades. the population of average achievers by far outweighs high achievers across entire nations, not just arts degrees in university. also, where you said you study hard and often is the difference between and arts degree and a 'harder' degree is wrong, that's for all people. you study hard and often in any degree you'll do well, if you don't study and just bum around you'll fail in all degrees, even arts. that's pretty obvious.

@rostheferret
i think you said somewhere that you were writing? that's certainly admirable and respectable but i hope it's not like the wall of writing that was your incredibly over exaggerated sob-story. I know this is a forum so of course no-ones really going to bother about proper writing, but if you actually take writing course in uni they tell you how to work each paragraph, structurally and different types of words and their effects, to get your ideas across. its actually extremely helpful to writing and once you've mastered it and can subconsciously do this for each paragraph the quality of your writing can get pretty brilliant. most accomplished writers have been to uni for a reason, to learn these things.
(about your story, try going to a better uni if your science departments so horrific. the facilities at mine are fine, from what I've seen and my friends in science have told me. maybe you'r trying to save money by going to a cheap uni, but if you think an arts degrees a waste of money that you can learn at home, why are you learning in such a crappy environment, wouldn't that be a waste of money too, even if it may be a little cheaper. pay for a decent uni, just like i'm paying for a decent degree)

hopefully all that was coherent

[Nikkoru]

My problem with Metro, he seems to be treating his education in the way people buy houses to flip them and sell them for a higher profit. He doesn't want to make his education his home, to live within it and have it ground him, but simply sees it as an instrument to earn a title or garner a certain wage.

Perhaps I'm wrong, I just know a lot of people who speak like that treat a university or college degree just as some kind of commodity but don't see the implicit value in acquiring knowledge, developing reasoning and judgment, and generally preparing intellectually for maturity. I'm of the religion that worships at the alter of knowledge, to which schools, colleges, universities, laboratories, and libraries are my cathedrals and temples. Ross argues that my faith need not be restricted to the halls of learning, which is true insofar that learning is an unlimited experience. It fails however, to capture aura of the experience that the classroom or lecture hall holds, of sharing the experience with others and seeking the wisdom of those who hold it.

I believe those who see formal education as a stepping stone are missing the point, of everything.

[EmptyMemory]

I believe those who see formal education as a stepping stone are missing the point, of everything.

Nikkoru has a valid point.


While I agree that university can be a phenomenal experience for anyone, regardless of faculty, I still feel like you should be somewhat certain of where you want your university career to be headed before you start. Regardless of what your interests are, everyone should be inclined to spend those 4/5 years in the most effective way they can. While what Nikkoru has depicted is an integral part of the university experience, there are other things you want to optimize as well, i.e. where your degree will take you. I'd rather have both "the university experience" and a degree in a field that is practical and self-fulfilling.

[Nikkoru]

I believe those who see formal education as a stepping stone are missing the point, of everything.

Nikkoru has a valid point.


While I agree that university can be a phenomenal experience for anyone, regardless of faculty, I still feel like you should be somewhat certain of where you want your university career to be headed before you start. Regardless of what your interests are, everyone should be inclined to spend those 4/5 years in the most effective way they can. While what Nikkoru has depicted is an integral part of the university experience, there are other things you want to optimize as well, i.e. where your degree will take you. I'd rather have both "the university experience" and a degree in a field that is practical and self-fulfilling.

If you work hard and have passion for the material, whatever it may be, you'll find yourself doing something you love.

It may not be what you imagined, but life is like that.

[EmptyMemory]

If you work hard and have passion for the material, whatever it may be, you'll find yourself doing something you love.

It may not be what you imagined, but life is like that.

And a little luck.