Discussion Forums > The Lounge
A Whole New Light
kadatherion:
Holy Mother of Celestia, how did this topic grow this much while I was asleep? I'm beginning to understand in what kind of circle of Hell I ended into... (oh well, could have been worse: there still was that circle where souls were dipped up to their necks into a lake of shit and kept pleading each other to not cause a wave).
Still, now it feels horribly awkward to answer something that has been said five pages ago ::)
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 10, 2012, 03:28:46 PM ---Also, I'd say it's natural to look diferently on someone you actualy had sex with. But I'm still a bit dazzled by what the difference is when someone says (I stress that word) they had sex with someone who isn't you. Does it make anyone go from "Pure inexperienced princess" to "old dirty hag" overnight? And there's more, you can tell?
--- End quote ---
For a brief moment of seriousness, it really is a male complex. Most people would deny it, or would justify it with some preposterous connection with the aesthetic canons from the French Romanticism in the XIX century (when you play the Baudelaire card you magically sound less of a pervert; funny, as he was a sick bastard...), but the fact is we are instinctively possessive, jealous dumbasses. We are jealous of the previous partners of our current one. There's no escape: some (hopefully most, but I wouldn't be so sure) men are smart enough to laugh at themselves for that and manage to keep such silliness at bay in their subconscious, but the spark, deep down, is always there.
It's nature, really, we may think of ourselves as bright, intelligent, whatever superior beings, but we are tied to those reproductive instincts that want only our DNA to be spread around and not the DNA of another one, and all that alpha male bullshit. The whole ludicrous value given to "virginity" originates from there, then it adapts differently depending on the current culture. It becomes supposedly important for males too, assumes religious significance, sparks aesthetics canons; since we are in an otaku forum, just think of the Geisha: the whole basis of such doll-like appearance was for women to appear pure, delicate, pristine, like a doll indeed, and that's nothing more than a convoluted mental process mirroring the idea of "virginity". Even though they were whores.
Men like to "desecrate" pure things as it makes them feel dominant, and dominance over a woman calls to that spark deep down that wants them to be alpha males, to be the only ones granted the right to generate cubs.
Of course there are also opposing trends. Like many men liking big boobs and overall "experienced" looks in a mature woman as it tells their instincts those females show promise for being healthy mothers able to produce an equally healthy offspring. But to them I say: screw you. Baudelaire be my witness, you don't understand shit about beauty! :laugh:
Which leads me to...
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 10, 2012, 03:28:46 PM ---...But that part about fatherly insticts and...all, reminded me of (click to show/hide)... if you know who that is ;D
--- End quote ---
Oh crap, you might have nailed it. Excel Saga was one of the very first anime I really got into before discovering the fansub world (as it was one of the very few to ever have been decently dubbed in my language)... Gojo might have been the primeval cause of it all, of my ailment. Next time I get obscenely drunk and the next day they tell me the girl I maked out with was seventeen years old, I know who to blame! *_*
elvikun:
--- Quote from: kadatherion on April 11, 2012, 05:23:24 AM --- (click to show/hide)Holy Mother of Celestia, how did this topic grow this much while I was asleep? I'm beginning to understand in what kind of circle of Hell I ended into... (oh well, could have been worse: there still was that circle where souls were dipped up to their necks into a lake of shit and kept pleading each other to not cause a wave).
Still, now it feels horribly awkward to answer something that has been said five pages ago ::)
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 10, 2012, 03:28:46 PM ---Also, I'd say it's natural to look diferently on someone you actualy had sex with. But I'm still a bit dazzled by what the difference is when someone says (I stress that word) they had sex with someone who isn't you. Does it make anyone go from "Pure inexperienced princess" to "old dirty hag" overnight? And there's more, you can tell?
--- End quote ---
For a brief moment of seriousness, it really is a male complex. Most people would deny it, or would justify it with some preposterous connection with the aesthetic canons from the French Romanticism in the XIX century (when you play the Baudelaire card you magically sound less of a pervert; funny, as he was a sick bastard...), but the fact is we are instinctively possessive, jealous dumbasses. We are jealous of the previous partners of our current one. There's no escape: some (hopefully most, but I wouldn't be so sure) men are smart enough to laugh at themselves for that and manage to keep such silliness at bay in their subconscious, but the spark, deep down, is always there.
It's nature, really, we may think of ourselves as bright, intelligent, whatever superior beings, but we are tied to those reproductive instincts that want only our DNA to be spread around and not the DNA of another one, and all that alpha male bullshit. The whole ludicrous value given to "virginity" originates from there, then it adapts differently depending on the current culture. It becomes supposedly important for males too, assumes religious significance, sparks aesthetics canons; since we are in an otaku forum, just think of the Geisha: the whole basis of such doll-like appearance was for women to appear pure, delicate, pristine, like a doll indeed, and that's nothing more than a convoluted mental process mirroring the idea of "virginity". Even though they were whores.
Men like to "desecrate" pure things as it makes them feel dominant, and dominance over a woman calls to that spark deep down that wants them to be alpha males, to be the only ones granted the right to generate cubs.
Of course there are also opposing trends. Like many men liking big boobs and overall "experienced" looks in a mature woman as it tells their instincts those females show promise for being healthy mothers able to produce an equally healthy offspring. But to them I say: screw you. Baudelaire be my witness, you don't understand shit about beauty! :laugh:
Which leads me to...
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 10, 2012, 03:28:46 PM ---...But that part about fatherly insticts and...all, reminded me of (click to show/hide)
... if you know who that is ;D
--- End quote ---
Oh crap, you might have nailed it. Excel Saga was one of the very first anime I really got into before discovering the fansub world (as it was one of the very few to ever have been decently dubbed in my language)... Gojo might have been the primeval cause of it all, of my ailment. Next time I get obscenely drunk and the next day they tell me the girl I maked out with was seventeen years old, I know who to blame! *_*
--- End quote ---
One of the definitions of sapient intelligent being is the ability to not act on and ignore basic instincts. And if you go for the "evolution has taught us so, it's in out genes" excuse you damn well better be into fat girls with enormous boobs. Yes. I mean you.
If you go for the younger, fragile, pure and flat looking girls, then you are actually genetical deviation, error, mistake just as much as the fragile, flat girls. And since I personally do not fancy calling myself an genetical error, I think it's better to not use genes as excuse for behavior. Just call it personal taste. Opinion. Style. Whatever.
Well. Basically, the same goes for the rest. The need to destroy and ravish should apply on other males and animals ore strongly than on females. So unless you maul three dogs and a husband on the way, again, stick with style.
Well. What I'm saying, you can actually just say you like this type of girls and hate previous partners, without swimming around in the genepool, Gojo :D
Also not sure where you live, but you should ove into Europe. Quite a few countries make people legal at 14.
Oh Maker, I hope I haven't suggested something I will read about in the newspaper later.
kadatherion:
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 11, 2012, 06:03:19 AM ---One of the definitions of sapient intelligent being is the ability to not act on and ignore basic instincts. And if you go for the "evolution has taught us so, it's in out genes" excuse you damn well better be into fat girls with enormous boobs. Yes. I mean you.
If you go for the younger, fragile, pure and flat looking girls, then you are actually genetical deviation, error, mistake just as much as the fragile, flat girls. And since I personally do not fancy calling myself an genetical error, I think it's better to not use genes as excuse for behavior. Just call it personal taste. Opinion. Style. Whatever.
--- End quote ---
Well, of course it's not an excuse, but it's an explanation. People ignore such basic instincts, but still those are there, lurking, and human thought no matter how reprocessed by intellect and culture comes from there. How these instincts reflect in a specific culture (or sub-culture), and how they balance themselves is the result of us being self-aware and capable of abstract thought. By its nature abstract thought brings upon several conflicting behaviours (when instincts themselves aren't already conflicting), like the funny big-boobs vs lolicon joke we can make here, in all its simplicity, sort of represents. There's no doubt me being particulary leaned towards the loli and/or skinny aesthetics might be a "deviation" from the norm (though I could call the Golden Ratio to back me up XD), but that doesn't mean a deviation is less rooted in instincts than the supposed norm.
Certain mammals kill the offspring of others, and sometimes even their own if they happen to have been near others and they got their smell on them. That sure sounds like a deviation, as even though it is sort of consistent with the whole genetic thing it doesn't look very effective from a Darwinian point of view. Yet it comes from instincts.
I mean, homosexuality comes from instincts (there are some primates who are much more bisexuals than humans, for instance, for them sex is just a greeting and a neutral show of herd affection), yet half the world brands it as a sick deviation against nature (damn you Sturm und Drang for confusing nature with gods!).
In the case of sexual aesthetics, as such, I wouldn't really call a deviation from instincts any attraction towards someone who is in his/her fertile years, it might be more a deviation from derivative social customs. Of course, being attracted to a certain aesthetic and actually wanting to be with a young girl when you are an adult and in the current society that means to be on completely different planes of personality, goals, interests etc is an horse of a completely different color (I'd say pink, and oh so random... ;) ).
Paedophilia, on the other hand, being aimed at non fertile children, is a deviation from instincts, or even better probably an ill, pathological extremization of some instincts (the dominance ones) while others get ignored, or twisted in being out place (the reproductive ones).
You may say I'm more of a Freud guy than a Jung one in my views (not that Jung's Collective Subconscious was that different... they still both were seeing penises everywhere), to summarize it. I'm one of those arid, barren people who ended up thinking attraction and love are nothing more than chemistry.
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 11, 2012, 06:03:19 AM ---Well. Basically, the same goes for the rest. The need to destroy and ravish should apply on other males and animals ore strongly than on females. So unless you maul three dogs and a husband on the way, again, stick with style.
--- End quote ---
I'm a 140 pounds weakling, even a Chihuahua would beat me up, and big boobs are scary, allright!? :'(
One has to work with what God gave him... ::)
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 11, 2012, 06:03:19 AM ---Also not sure where you live, but you should ove into Europe. Quite a few countries make people legal at 14.
Oh Maker, I hope I haven't suggested something I will read about in the newspaper later.
--- End quote ---
Yep, I'm from Italy, the age of consent is 14 here too. And anyway, I take care to never go pub crawling without my group of mostly all-female friends (I know, this is another something that might be slighty worrying about me...) to watch over me and hit me in the head with a bat should I go too far. I wonder why they never do that when I get into the homo acting jokes to scare the waiters, though...
rostheferret:
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 11, 2012, 06:03:19 AM ---One of the definitions of sapient intelligent being is the ability to not act on and ignore basic instincts. And if you go for the "evolution has taught us so, it's in out genes" excuse you damn well better be into fat girls with enormous boobs. Yes. I mean you.
--- End quote ---
If we're talking from an evolutionary perspective, then you would instinctively be drawn towards the strongest mate, and the one most likely to provide with healthy offspring. In fact it's largely the determination of objective beauty (subjectivity emerges as minor deviations based on person) and I have no idea how overweight women would fit into this. In fact, many overweight women have a far greater difficulty in conceiving. Much larger emphasis would lie on things like symmetry, a medium weight and height (I despise the inaccuracy of the BMI and it's inability to consider different body shapes but it serves as a guide), the ratio between the hips and the waist (slim waist, big hips), and yes, moderately sized firm breasts suitable for child rearing. Sorry if this comes off a little cold, but it was intended to be from a scientific perspective.
AceHigh:
What the fuck is this thread about now? Nevermind, I am out of here.
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