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A Whole New Light
elvikun:
--- Quote from: rostheferret on April 14, 2012, 06:41:26 PM --- (click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 14, 2012, 06:30:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: rostheferret on April 14, 2012, 06:12:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 14, 2012, 03:00:04 PM --- (click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: rostheferret on April 14, 2012, 10:16:24 AM --- (click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 13, 2012, 08:18:08 PM ---@Rosh
Honestly, I asked you yes or not question, and you answerd with 12 paragraphs of text.
First you almost laugh at me because you believed I said bigger brain = more intelligence, which I haven't even said and then you link me an article which starts with "Bigger cranial capacity is correlated with higher mental abilities" with "Read this"?
You say I'm confused about terms and then call hemoglobin carrying oxygen an instinct and say instinct is in fact a reflex?
You say that you "Assume" what something means after I told you what it means and assume it wrong at that?
Women with larger breats have lesser chance to have kids?
Insticnts evolved so men now are more likely to like large breasts and hips and I have said that?! You haven't noticed I was making the exactly opposite point the whole time?
If you call a muscle twich and how single cell works an insticnt, then how can I possibly ever tell you how instincts change?
What the fuck man?
Wiki... or softepedia... is not very wellcome, because it's about as credible as my left sock talking about acousto-optics. It's simply wrong on many occasions. Miquotations, stories, Joe editing after he had related class in the high school... Those people talking about telepathy back there can click edit as well.
... Could you just... Perhaps... answer the question at the end of the green text back there. That would help. And be peacefull end.
Edit: Actually, nevermind, let's just forget this, let's go back to defiling altars, fun times, fun times. How about that?
--- End quote ---
Cranial capacity =/= brain size. If you have a small skull but a large brain, you're likely to do some serious damage to it. The haemoglobin argument was an example of traits common to all mammals that is passed on genetically but doesn't change, I never called it an instinct. I gave you multiple other examples of instincts. Larger women have less chance to have kids, larger breasts is unnecessary beyond a certain point. Evolution has no need to promote either. A muscle twitch and cell function are both subconscious physical actions, an instinct is a subconscious psychological action. I used cheap resources because: a) I'm lazy; b) it stated my point for me [see point a]; c) I no longer have access to all my scientific journals; d) Do you really want to read a 30+ page in depth study of the cranial capacity and early intelligence capabilites with relation to teaching ability between early homo sapiens and neanderthals? Hope that clears up a few issues.
At least we finally agree that when you said overweight you really meant 'healthy weight.' No, I don't agree that instincts change. Rather, I think you're definition of what constitutes an instinct is incorrect; I don't think it's any more a conscious or evolutionary thing as much as it is a commonality between all members of a species; I think people who have lost certain instincts are likely to be considered to have a disorder, for example Congenital Analgesia (people who have lost sensitivity to pain). Lets try another example:
Evolution: A breast capable of producing milk.
Instinct: A baby suckling on a woman's breast to attain the milk.
The first one may indeed change over time, but the instinct of a child to actually breast feed? That won't ever change. Does that help at all?
P.S. Defiling the altars may have to wait, I got a plane to catch tomorrow. Try listening to this in my absence. I know it's not the same, but it's the best I have at short notice.
--- End quote ---
Ok let me end this with a comical relief. You knw what are you reminding me of terribly?
Question: Do you trully believe in all parts of the bible, be it literal or figurative interpreatition?
Answer: You might be filled with hatred-hrrr and you might me blind-hrrr but STILL-hrrr Jesus loves, he still loves you as your father-hrrr the God-hrrr does! Amen! AMEN!
Question: Could you answer the actuall question?
Answer: I will! I will-hrrr! BUT! First tell me this! How do you believe-hrrr in science-hrrr and not in your Lord Jesusss-hrrr when the science proves God-hrrr too? Amen!
Question: But the Bible?
Answer: Oh yes-hrr! I indeed mean the second-hrrr law of thermodynamics-hrrr! Amen. Amen!
*Hrrr! (Have you ever talked to trully fanatical christian? Then you know what the hrr at the end of words means. It's a sounds which, sadly, can't be written)
** (If you do not see it, you may ask. Example: Using cellular characteristsics as a proof of certain though process, calling something with a "reflex" in name an instinct...)
What I'm saiyng? You dodge in the most annoying way I am familiar with -ignoring ceratin parts,let's twist this here a little bit, answering questions which never were asked- and then just go on about your truth. This is something life long scholars and experts do not agree on, so it would be rather strange if we did, but still.
So, to be honest, as far as I can express my feelings, it is "Fuck. You." (figurative speech, and you are definitely entitled to think the same back)) for this discussion, however, as far as I can express the feelings towars you personally, it's "Ok man, that was cool, let's aree that we disagree, let's go have a beer."(figurative speech). So let's just go with the second one and be all merry and happy. Fair enough?
--- End quote ---
(click to show/hide)I didn't think I dodged anything. From my perspective you were mostly just trying to counter me by repeating your own opinion and asking further questions without offering any real argument in return except for "clarify this," after completely misunderstanding the arguments and analogies I'm trying to use in explanation; a "What! You think instincts are really robots in disguise?!?!?! But they're changing" over and over. But yeah, I'm done with the argument.
--- End quote ---
See? See? Thats exactly what I'm talking about. I still think it's a misunderstanding tho, because I was talking about instincts from the psychological point of view while you actually seem to say there is no such thing. Or psychology for that matter. Repetitive argument? Sure. "Instinct do change."- "Then why can we still breathe, eh?"-"No. Instincts. They change."-"But we still need to eat!" If we were even remotely on the same page, it wouldn't be even possible to bring up how freaking part of red blood cells works.
--- End quote ---
It's definitely psychological. I just don't think they changed, even though they were - Y'know what, I'm not going there again. But yeah, at it's core is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes an instinct. I come from a genetics background so the distinction in my mind is pretty clear.
--- End quote ---
It seems I must have liars and villains for opponents. I am not worthy in the sight of God that a godly and honorable person should discuss these matters with me in a Christian way. This is my greatest lament.
Whoever tolerates and listens to you should know that they are listening to the devil himself, incarnate and abominable, as he speaks out of the mouth of a possessed person.
Goldfrapp:
Can't belive your still debating this.
Instead of talking, you should do it.
(Yeah, I think you all just need to get laid. Get out some frustration. Have a good time.)
rostheferret:
--- Quote from: Goldfrapp on April 14, 2012, 07:02:18 PM ---Can't belive your still debating this.
Instead of talking, you should do it.
(Yeah, I think you all just need to get laid. Get out some frustration. Have a good time.)
--- End quote ---
...Together :o
Either way, this is nothing. I've had 30+ page debates before now (though not here). Now THAT got frustrating...
elvikun:
--- Quote from: rostheferret on April 14, 2012, 07:56:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: Goldfrapp on April 14, 2012, 07:02:18 PM ---Can't belive your still debating this.
Instead of talking, you should do it.
(Yeah, I think you all just need to get laid. Get out some frustration. Have a good time.)
--- End quote ---
...Together :o
Either way, this is nothing. I've had 30+ page debates before now (though not here). Now THAT got frustrating...
(click to show/hide)
--- End quote ---
Actually - Let's listen to him/her. Let's go do it. Let's steal some newborn baby and experiment. We will see whether we can get it to defile basic instincts of not.
rostheferret:
--- Quote from: elvikun on April 14, 2012, 08:00:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: rostheferret on April 14, 2012, 07:56:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: Goldfrapp on April 14, 2012, 07:02:18 PM ---Can't belive your still debating this.
Instead of talking, you should do it.
(Yeah, I think you all just need to get laid. Get out some frustration. Have a good time.)
--- End quote ---
...Together :o
Either way, this is nothing. I've had 30+ page debates before now (though not here). Now THAT got frustrating...
(click to show/hide)
--- End quote ---
Actually - Let's listen to him/her. Let's go do it. Let's steal some newborn baby and experiment. We will see whether we can get it to defile basic instincts of not.
--- End quote ---
I wonder if we electrocuted the child every time the adrenal glands pumped out adrenaline whether he'd stop producing adrenaline, or put out more in the fear he would be electrocuted. Muhahahahaha...
EDIT: But this would be behavioural modification therapy rather than an example of a change occurring over time. What we'd have to do is screen for one particular instinct a number of kids seem lacking in, say 8 in total, force them to all have children, take the four offspring and force them to have kids, take the two last offspring and force THEM to have kids, and then lock the result up in a padded room for a decade or so and then see if it's diminished.
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