Author Topic: Who will be Romney's running mate? (Read 4863 times)

jaybug · « **Reply #100 on:** August 12, 2012, 12:36:20 AM »

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-11/paul-ryans-unwitting-ally-barack-obama

But I don't really think the author carries through with that statement. If anything he poses Ryan as Obama's straw man, or stalking horse.

So when do we get Obama attack ads that state Ryan is an axe murderer? lol

zherok · « **Reply #101 on:** August 12, 2012, 12:50:05 AM »

There's plenty of material to go after that doesn't involve making shit up. Like his stance on medicare and social security when Florida is such an important swing state. I doubt Ryan's stance on abortion is going to help Romney's already trailing numbers with women, either.

I can't say I see his budget work as terribly strong on identifying where the numbers are coming from either, but that seems par for the course with the Romney ticket.

Burkingam · « **Reply #102 on:** August 12, 2012, 01:00:09 AM »

ts'al coz yall commiez gev dem woomen vots dat thare's a muzlimz stealin' America form GOD!!

jaybug · « **Reply #103 on:** August 12, 2012, 05:54:38 PM »

I would like you to clarify your "his stance on Medicare" It just makes no sense to me, other than fiscal/political blindness on your part. Medicare would not have had enough money, through payroll deductions as the funding mechanism starting in 2017. They've known that for years. But that was before Obama raided this source of money to pay for Obamacare. Yeah, to the tune of 1/2 TRILLION dollars over the next ten years.

Do you finish off Medicare, or do you do something to fix it. Oh yeah, raise taxes, that's right. I just love the idea of paying more in taxes to fund you pie in the sky crapola. I am not part of the 1%. So, I guess the middle class is going to be taking the brunt of this, that or gramma will just have to hope she drops dead before she really needs medical attention.

Ignorance is the Obama/Biden ticket's best hope for a victory. Because no one from the left seems to remember that we do have to actually pay for things somehow.

Burkingam · « **Reply #104 on:** August 12, 2012, 06:26:12 PM »

Yeah, jaybug, we all know you love it when sick people who can't afford health care just die, because then you don't have to pay more taxes and that's great.

jaybug · « **Reply #105 on:** August 12, 2012, 06:32:16 PM »

Quote from: Burkingam on August 12, 2012, 06:26:12 PM

Yeah, jaybug, we all know you love it when sick people who can't afford health care just die, because then you don't have to pay more taxes and that's great.

Whaddaya mean? You're still alive you sick bastard. lol So how does gutting Medicare to pay for Obama care keep gramma going with her medications? You stole from gramma to pay for illegal aliens health care. How is that right? Why doesn't Mexico pay for their own health care? Can we bill Mexico for emergency room visits by illegal aliens?

Burkingam · « **Reply #106 on:** August 12, 2012, 06:41:01 PM »

Sure Jaybug. It's all cause of those darn alliens that your gramma is dying.

So do you have any evidence that elders are getting a worst service than before? If you do, I want to see it.

jaybug · « **Reply #107 on:** August 12, 2012, 06:49:53 PM »

Quote from: Burkingam on August 12, 2012, 06:41:01 PM

Sure Jaybug. It's all cause of those darn alliens that your gramma is dying.

So do you have any evidence that elders are getting a worst service than before? If you do, I want to see it.

How can I prove squat when Obama care doesn't take full effect until 2014? But I'd like to know how you think taking away 1/2 trillion dollars from any health insurance will not adversely affect those expecting protection from having that particular coverage.

And there will still be somewhere around 17 million people in America who will not be covered by anything, even with Obamacare fully in place. So whose ox do we need to gore next to cover those remaining 17 million persons not covered? Is this where your carbon taxes go? So we won't actually be able to save the environment because we spent it on health care insurance?

As an aside, do doctors and other health care services need to all be in Class 'A' office space? Aren't typical American strip mall storefronts good enough to go for your check-ups and other non-emergency doctor's visits? And why aren't there about 4 Nurse Practitioners for every doctor?

TMRNetShark · « **Reply #108 on:** August 12, 2012, 09:52:42 PM »

I think you two are bickering about the wrong thing....

Complain more about how the COST of healthcare is twice as much as other countries per person versus "Oh... socialized healthcare can/won't work in the USA."

Complaining about immigrants won't get us anywhere... That argument has been used since the early 1900's with all the poor Europeans coming to the USA. We didn't spontaneously exploded back then... so 200,000-500,000 illegal aliens from Mexico isn't the real problem either.

Remember, we went from Bill Clinton's era of surplus to having 2 wars. You know how expensive war is?

Plus there is this disparity between "Taxing the rich" and "Taxing." What do I mean? I mean that the world's average corporate tax rate has gone down while the US's tax rate has remained the same. So I think we should lower CORPORATE tax rates... but by golly... raise the taxes on the rich from 35% to 45% or higher.

The reason I say this is because with a lower corporate tax rate, you will entice companies to have their businesses here in the USA... but the rich CEOs can't get a lower tax rate on their income because they obviously can't get their income from a different country.

If it doesn't make sense.... I'm sorry. The tax code in the USA is about 72,000 pages... I won't bother reading it. >.>

Burkingam · « **Reply #109 on:** August 12, 2012, 10:30:18 PM »

I think there should be a basic mandatory course included in the curriculum of all public high schools in the country about how to start and manage a small enterprise. That would do a lot promote entrepreneurship. If you make it so that the market is always saturated with new small businesses, why would you even care if big players are leaving the country?

zherok · « **Reply #110 on:** August 12, 2012, 11:12:29 PM »

Quote from: jaybug on August 12, 2012, 06:32:16 PM

lol So how does gutting Medicare to pay for Obama care keep gramma going with her medications? You stole from gramma to pay for illegal aliens health care. How is that right? Why doesn't Mexico pay for their own health care? Can we bill Mexico for emergency room visits by illegal aliens?

How do the cuts made by Obamacare affect grandma's medication costs? Or benefit illegals as a result of that?

jaybug · « **Reply #111 on:** August 13, 2012, 01:41:28 AM »

Quote from: zherok on August 12, 2012, 11:12:29 PM

Quote from: jaybug on August 12, 2012, 06:32:16 PM
lol So how does gutting Medicare to pay for Obama care keep gramma going with her medications? You stole from gramma to pay for illegal aliens health care. How is that right? Why doesn't Mexico pay for their own health care? Can we bill Mexico for emergency room visits by illegal aliens?
How do the cuts made by Obamacare affect grandma's medication costs? Or benefit illegals as a result of that?

I don't think the medication costs are affected. Nothing seems to cut costs. But taking 1/2 trillion away from the Medicare/Medicaid budget is a lot of money that does not go towards gramma's health care. But as 20 some millions of people are now covered, Obama robbed gramma to fix Gonzalo. Currently, illegal aliens go use the emergency room, which is the highest cost, but you do not need insurance to get life saving help. BUt as it is now, gramma is also filling up emergency rooms across America. That according to anecdotal evidence a co-worker noticed when he had to take his wife to the emergency room, that it was full of little old ladies.

I suppose dog food will be popular with the elderly, again.

TMRNetShark · « **Reply #112 on:** August 13, 2012, 02:45:49 AM »

There are a lot more than just "illegals" using the Emergency Room and skipping on the bill. It's sad though, because the people who follow the rules (aka, buy healthcare because it's the SMART thing to do) get stuck with the bill. I've seen some surgeries bills were ONE staple cost $1200. ONE fucking staple.

Maybe we should all not follow the rules. Lets see how many people we can piss off. >.>

Burkingam · « **Reply #113 on:** August 13, 2012, 02:50:46 AM »

@jaybug Actually, American has historically been the best example of how it's possible to trow more money than everyone else at Healthcare and still get a crappier service than everyone else in the civilized world. And all they needed to do is say "socialized health care is communism. I want capitalistic healthcare" doing everything there own way without giving a shit about what works and what doesn't. So when you say "they mugged my grandma" I'm not impressed. Because of your phobia of the left, you end up wasting so much that yeah, you could slightly improve how healthcare is managed, save half a trillion without lowering quality and STILL have by far the worst managed system in the world. And that's exactly what Obamacare is promising "we are gonna suck a lot more than any of our allies but we will suck a little bit less than before, a very very little bit less, but damn we will still suck a lot"

jaybug · « **Reply #114 on:** August 13, 2012, 03:03:01 AM »

I wonder if it will hold true after Obamacare is implemented fully, that should I call to make an appointment with my doctor, if I will be able to see my doctor that same day, or if I will need to wait a few days. Who knows, maybe PFM

(click to show/hide)

will have be all better by the time I get to see my doctor.

But it will still cost someone ( whether it be me personally, my employer through union contract) about $1,500 per month, plus up front co-pay, plus out of pocket billed expense paid by me later. Currently a visit to my doctor, with diabetes blood work done has an out of pocket expense to me of @ fifty bucks. That's after insurance has aid the doctor over $200. Wow, for 5 minutes time.

I wonder if we will have as many cancer survivors after Obamacare, as we do now

Burkingam · « **Reply #115 on:** August 13, 2012, 03:24:51 AM »

^There is a concept in statistic called "Regression to the mean" in which the variable with the most extreme values of set of similar variables is most likely to evolve closer to the average if the system keeps evolving randomly. What it has to do with the subject is that America's healthcare is an extreme value(extremely bad), in as set of values (other country's) and so if we agree that the variables are similar( although I guess this premise could be challenged on the basis that you refuse you get it socialized) if the system changes randomly it's more likely to closer to the average (to improve) that to become even more extreme (to get even worst). In simple words, using loose inductive logic we could say that even though it's possible Obamacare could be even worst, it's statistically more likely that it will do better.

zherok · « **Reply #116 on:** August 13, 2012, 04:41:40 AM »

Quote from: jaybug on August 13, 2012, 01:41:28 AM

I don't think the medication costs are affected. Nothing seems to cut costs. But taking 1/2 trillion away from the Medicare/Medicaid budget is a lot of money that does not go towards gramma's health care. But as 20 some millions of people are now covered, Obama robbed gramma to fix Gonzalo. Currently, illegal aliens go use the emergency room, which is the highest cost, but you do not need insurance to get life saving help. BUt as it is now, gramma is also filling up emergency rooms across America. That according to anecdotal evidence a co-worker noticed when he had to take his wife to the emergency room, that it was full of little old ladies.

I suppose dog food will be popular with the elderly, again.

Lotta "blame the Mexicans" and non-useful anecdotal evidence there. =/

Also, these same cuts appear to be part of the assumptions in the original Ryan plan. The one all the republicans were tripping over to pass through the house, if you remember. Romney appears to be backing off Ryan's budget, so we won't know the specifics right now, but while the ACA used those cuts (which you can read about here) to offset it's own costs, Ryan's use for the cuts apparently just offset the loss in revenue from lowering the upper income tax brackets.

Obama is far from perfect, and definitely needs more specifics in his own offerings (and to be honest, I'm kinda glad that Romney's tacking hard to the right seems to be encouraging Obama move further to the left on social issues), but you'll pardon me if I'm not all that enthusiastic for the ticket that seems to think cutting the top income tax brackets solves everything. Especially when both Romney and Ryan are very gun-ho about expanding the military budget while they shrink revenues.

Burkingam · « **Reply #117 on:** August 13, 2012, 04:59:55 AM »

^That's the irony. Obamacare is the perfect evidence that Republican don't give a fuck what policies liberals take. If it's liberal, even if it's the best idea in the world, they are gonna smear it. Obamacare was their fucking idea. Obama took out almost everything that was not in their plan.
If Obama cuts taxes, republicans call it subsidies and blame him for the deficit.
If Obama raises taxes, republicans...
If Obama keeps taxes at the same level, republicans would blame him for doing nothing for the American people.
If Obama found a cure to aids, republicans would blame him for homosexuality.
If Obama found a cure to cancer, republicans would blame him for overpopulation.
If Obama established peace and harmony between all nations in the worlds, republicans would blame him for destroying the weapon industry.
If Obama goes to church, they say he's spying for muslims.

Look, fuck what republicans say. I have yet to hear republican talk that actually makes sense, and it's not because I haven't been looking.

Nikkoru · « **Reply #118 on:** August 13, 2012, 07:55:29 AM »

I do find it sad that Republicans fail to see the irony in passionately opposing positions -- such as the individual mandate in the ACA or the tax-cut heavy stimulus -- which they themselves proposed, supported, and even implemented previously. Romney's biggest accomplishments politically were literally these same policies applied to his state.

Frankly, it's the Left that should feel poorly represented with the Obama presidency and the Democratic Party in general. It's simply that the alternatives are so ridiculously intolerable that a majority of progressives/liberals/leftists are willing to compromise with their current sensible right-leaning centrist who will kind of listen to them rather than risk being marginalized entirely as Bush attempted for eight years.

It's pitiful, is what it is.

Don't bother trying to convince Jaybug that Obama or the Democrats have any merit whatsoever, as I've pointed out before, he'll never listen. It's just not in his nature. I find doing so just puts me in the unnatural position of being a Democratic apologist all the time, and that's nauseating in its own way.

Ixarku · « **Reply #119 on:** August 13, 2012, 09:47:30 AM »

Quote from: Nikkoru on August 13, 2012, 07:55:29 AM

Frankly, it's the Left that should feel poorly represented with the Obama presidency and the Democratic Party in general. It's simply that the alternatives are so ridiculously intolerable that a majority of progressives/liberals/leftists are willing to compromise with their current sensible right-leaning centrist who will kind of listen to them rather than risk being marginalized entirely as Bush attempted for eight years.

It's pitiful, is what it is.

Don't bother trying to convince Jaybug that Obama or the Democrats have any merit whatsoever, as I've pointed out before, he'll never listen. It's just not in his nature. I find doing so just puts me in the unnatural position of being a Democratic apologist all the time, and that's nauseating in its own way.

You're pretty much speaking my language right here, Nikkoru. To use a Jaybug-ism, if the Republicans are going to throw tantrums and take their toys and go home rather than play nice, and if the Democrats are going to reply, "Oh, all right, we'll play the games you want to play," just to get them to stop crying, then I say, fuck 'em both. I'm not voting either Repub or Democrat again.