Author Topic: Who will be Romney's running mate? (Read 4877 times)

Burkingam · « **Reply #60 on:** April 18, 2012, 05:53:22 PM »

@AceHigh Never said anything about vegans. They are a different story. The main problem with their diet is that there is no good non-animal source of vitamin B12 and so they often develop a deficiency unless they take supplements (which comes from bacterial culture) or drink reinforced food(usually soy milk).

@elvikun I already linked you to pubmed if you are interested in what scientists(not monks) have to say about the vegetarian diet. If you don't know what pubmed is, it's a database maintained by the NLM containing millions of peer-reviewed scientific paper in medicine and other related fields, the most renown of it's kind in the scientific community.
Also, you seam to have forgotten my point: people who think it's wrong to kill animals(or more specifically to do it in a video) and then who eat meat themselves are hypocrites. It doesn't apply to people who don't care about who kills whatever animal, how and why.

elvikun · « **Reply #61 on:** April 18, 2012, 06:36:37 PM »

Yes, you linked it. And most of it doesn't even touch the subject. Also there is a good reson why you don't base biology research on what people say/heard from other people. People . . . Lie. Surprise surprise.

And I haven't forgotten your point, I'm just saying you are making a guilt trip from it. Huge one. Even PETA vegans enjoy killing animals by your standart.

But anyway, let's got back to powerhungry rednecks.

Saras · « **Reply #62 on:** April 18, 2012, 07:15:54 PM »

As for the Bathing thing. It is a valid point.

The bluebloods of medieval Europe didn't wash. It was believed that bathing would lead to disease. Even not long ago, a Siberian nomad only washed once in his life and that is when he was born. As falling into a lake or purposely making you wet would have meant near certain hypothermia.

By not washing, people developed stronger immune systems as the fauna on your skin also assisted in protecting you from disease and your own immune system got a lot more "training". It is not an uncommon view that people's immune system has been going downhill at a steady rate because our bodies do not encounter "training drones" in our current sterilized environments.

As for the vegan diets. Yes, there are and have always been people eating only vegan friendly things. But, while you can afford to remain healthy in India while being purely vegan, that's not exactly the same for places like let's say Moscow. If not meat, you will have to eat fish or something else that has a substantial amount of calories in it. A human simply can't survive on lettuce in the colder climates, you need something that's calorie intensive to be capable of both maintaining life functions and actually doing stuff.

Nikkoru · « **Reply #63 on:** April 18, 2012, 07:57:55 PM »

You can survive just fine without ever having sex, some people do, doesn't change the fact that we're hardwired to seek it. We're omnivorous, we can pretend otherwise, but the smell and sight of meat leads to a rush of saliva to our mouths and a strong sense of "me wantee". A good thing to, because as Saras just said, not everywhere is capable of being just gatherers, hunters had to enter the picture or else the intake of calories would've been insufficient for people who didn't have multi-billion dollar global agribusinesses, preservatives, and mass transportation to fall back on.

You can, in theory, live your whole life having your biochemistry dripped back into you through an IV every day. It doesn't change the fact that your biology will still be screaming out for real food, our brain literally rewards us with pleasurable chemicals just for fulfilling our stomachs growls. You can call it amusement in the same way masturbation is.

Burkingam · « **Reply #64 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:04:53 PM »

@Saras BTW who said anything about Indian vegans? I specifically said lactovegetarian and ovolactovegetarian. And since when do we need more calorie intensive food really? It's funny and I thought obesity was becoming pandemic. Beside :peanut butter, cake, cheese, croissants, chocolate, cookies, sweeties... it's not like there is no calorie-rich vegetarian food. And no the "bathing" point was pretty bad. However you look at it, people don't bath just because they like it. It's a red herring that's all this is.

@elvikun I'm not sure how "Even PETA vegans enjoy killing animals by [my] standard" exactly. I didn't even say that meat-eaters enjoy killing animals, I said they killed them for there enjoyment. You understand the difference, right? In the first you kill them because you like killing them and in the second you kill them because that gives you something you enjoy.

And please try harder to looks at links I show you:

2.Blood pressure of omnivorous and semi-vegetarian postmenopausal women and their relationship with dietary and hair concentrations of essential and toxic metals.
6.Chinese Lacto-Vegetarian Diet Exerts Favorable Effects on Metabolic Parameters, Intima-Media Thickness, and Cardiovascular Risks in Healthy Men.
20.Vegetarian diets and blood pressure among white subjects: results from the Adventist Health Study-2 (AHS-2).
26.Assessment of the influence of vegetarian diet on the occurrence of erosive and abrasive cavities in hard tooth tissues.
27.Diet-dependent net endogenous acid load of vegan diets in relation to food groups and bone health-related nutrients: results from the German Vegan Study.

And it goes on for 153 pages (or 3052 publications), so stop acting like we don't know anything about the effect of a meatless diet on the health. You can not honestly say that vegetarianism is unhealthy. That's asinine. We know that's not true.

@Nikkoru The same can be said of soft drinks(or rather very sweet things). I fail to see your point.

elvikun · « **Reply #65 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:21:55 PM »

Quote from: Burkingam on April 18, 2012, 08:04:53 PM

BTW who said anything about Indian vegans?

@elvikun I'm not sure how "Even PETA vegans enjoy killing animals by [my] standard" exactly. I didn't even say that meat-eaters enjoy killing animals, I said they killed them for there enjoyment. You understand the difference, right? In the first you kill them because you like killing them and in the second you kill them because that gives you something you enjoy.

And please try harder to looks at links I show you:

(click to show/hide)
2.Blood pressure of omnivorous and semi-vegetarian postmenopausal women and their relationship with dietary and hair concentrations of essential and toxic metals.
6.Chinese Lacto-Vegetarian Diet Exerts Favorable Effects on Metabolic Parameters, Intima-Media Thickness, and Cardiovascular Risks in Healthy Men.
20.Vegetarian diets and blood pressure among white subjects: results from the Adventist Health Study-2 (AHS-2).
26.Assessment of the influence of vegetarian diet on the occurrence of erosive and abrasive cavities in hard tooth tissues.
27.Diet-dependent net endogenous acid load of vegan diets in relation to food groups and bone health-related nutrients: results from the German Vegan Study.

And it goes on for 153 pages (or 3052 publications), so stop acting like we don't know anything about the effect of a meatless diet on the health. You can not honestly say that vegetarianism is unhealthy. That's asinine. We know that's not true.

Well. You used India as an example of people who never tasted meat for generations.
And the bathing - I have said it's not ideal, but it's valid. Just as avoiding meat products it won't kill you. It even might make your like better at some turns. If you can stand the negative effects. Just because you don't understand as it seem, doesn't rended it wrong. The people who never touched water were there and not in small numbers and their descandants are still here too, obviously.

You say that eating meat products means the given person is killing animals for amusement. I Have already said...

Quote

If you do something for amusement, it means it amuses you, when something amuses you, you find it to be amusing. Killing animals for amusement and to find killing animals to be amusing is the same. If you say "enjoy" it sounds even more extreme.

...If a PETA member uses a chewing gun, bang, enjoys killing cows.

And the links are cool, but I won't go trouh 3000 of often unrelated papers. As for what you named... Not a single one is about the subject, why would you even quote that?

Saras · « **Reply #66 on:** April 18, 2012, 08:42:04 PM »

Quote from: Burkingam on April 18, 2012, 08:04:53 PM

@Saras BTW who said anything about Indian vegans? I specifically said lactovegetarian and ovolactovegetarian. And since when do we need more calorie intensive food really? It's funny and I thought obesity was becoming pandemic. Beside :peanut butter, cake, cheese, croissants, chocolate, cookies, sweeties... it's not like there is no calorie-rich vegetarian food. And no the "bathing" point was pretty bad. However you look at it, people don't bath just because they like it. It's a red herring that's all this is.

And I have no knowledge of what either of those two terms mean. Vegans are simply vegans to me, I couldn't give a rat's ass as to how they sub-categorize themselves.

And to my knowledge vegans have always been classified as "not eating meat, dairy produce and eggs". And without which, you can't really make any of "cake, cheese, croissants, chocolate, cookies, sweeties..." at least not from the recipes I know of. Oh yeah, peanut butter is a non-general consumption item near these parts of the world. While it isn't non-existant, it's not exactly something you will find in every household. Or even one in five.

Also, the only thing rich in protein out of your given selection is cheese, which generally consists of 10 parts fat for every 9 parts of protein. Compared to a usual stakes 5 parts protein to 2 parts fat. Furthermore, the body has a far larger absorption rate of protein out of meat products at the mid 90's percentage rate compared to other sources at around mid 80's. Thus they are a pretty poor substitute from a building block point of view.

Obesity while a rising problem, is not exactly universal.

It isn't the best argument by a long shot. But the point still stands, you do not have to take baths, there have been many people in history to shun bathing, just as there were people to shun meat. Also you didn't really persuade me to believe that eating meat is the equivalent of "slaughter for entertainment", it still seems like a non sequitor argument whose only purpose is to guilt trip.

Fine, finished reading till the end of the squabble. Not vegans, good enough, but why create new terminology for simply "not eating meat"? What exactly does it serve when comparable terminology already exists that isn't synonymous with the group you are speaking about? And even then, it doesn't change the fact that the high calorie food you gave as examples of substitutes for meat have inherently different compositions, not exactly in a favourable manner.

undetz · « **Reply #67 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:04:45 PM »

Two people arguing stupidly with one person arguing smartly... I wonder where this will go.

SeventyX7 · « **Reply #68 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:09:08 PM »

What the fuck? I just had to double-take that I was in the "Who will be Romney's running mate?" thread.

What is all this shit about veganism and PETA?

Burkingam · « **Reply #69 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:16:37 PM »

Followed several complains for our derailment, I'm moving this conversation here.

Quote from: undetz on April 18, 2012, 09:04:45 PM

Two people arguing stupidly with one person arguing smartly... I wonder where this will go.

I hope you are enjoying your popcorn.

jaybug · « **Reply #70 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:49:09 PM »

Bet you Romney's running mate will bathe regularly, and eat meat.

Nikkoru · « **Reply #71 on:** April 18, 2012, 10:01:54 PM »

A new challenger appears

Ixarku · « **Reply #72 on:** April 18, 2012, 11:20:41 PM »

Quote from: Nikkoru on April 18, 2012, 10:01:54 PM

A new challenger appears

(click to show/hide)

If I eat Ham Rove, would that upset the vegetarians? He is an incarnation of Karl Rove, and therefore diametrically opposed to leftist vegetarians in every way imaginable, so they should be in favor of it. But he is also made of meat, and therefore it is anathema to said vegetarians to kill and consume him.

Pharismo · « **Reply #73 on:** April 19, 2012, 05:21:32 PM »

I though Obama already had won the elections or i'm wrong?

jaybug · « **Reply #74 on:** April 19, 2012, 10:58:33 PM »

We have to wait until the first Tuesday in November to cast our ballots Pharismo. Just because the media you read/listen to has already announced Obama as the victor as fait accompli, does not make it actual fact. Or maybe the sources you read are time travellers. Dunno.

Thought of a possible veep candidate. Portman of Ohio. Has international experience as well as being well versed as far as money matters and budgets go. He might bring the Star Wars votes in. lol

AceHigh · « **Reply #75 on:** April 19, 2012, 11:23:12 PM »

Well, since media has the power to manipulate people into voting for whom they want them to vote, then I believe the media when they state that Obama already won.

elvikun · « **Reply #76 on:** April 19, 2012, 11:31:06 PM »

Well, Obama is a lot of things, lot of not so good things, but seeing the other candidates - who would you rather have as a president? One promises to outlaw gays, other to make every cell count as full US citizen, third promises to return US to the hands of God...
Obama kind of doesn't really do anything pupular or promised, but he looks ... Safe?

Ixarku · « **Reply #77 on:** April 19, 2012, 11:39:24 PM »

Quote from: elvikun on April 19, 2012, 11:31:06 PM

Well, Obama is a lot of things, lot of not so good things, but seeing the other candidates - who would you rather have as a president? One promises to outlaw gays, other to make every cell count as full US citizen, third promises to return US to the hands of God...
Obama kind of doesn't really do anything pupular or promised, but he looks ... Safe?

It's another situation of having to choose between a giant douche or a turd sandwich, IMO.

elvikun · « **Reply #78 on:** April 19, 2012, 11:42:16 PM »

Well, I'm not even from the US, but from what I've seen and read comming from the other candidates, Obama just seems to be the safest choice availiable.

Nikkoru · « **Reply #79 on:** April 20, 2012, 12:03:33 AM »

Quote from: elvikun on April 19, 2012, 11:42:16 PM

Well, I'm not even from the US, but from what I've seen and read comming from the other candidates, Obama just seems to be the safest choice availiable.

Obama is a centre-right politician with a strong cautious streak who's more inclined to compromise and consolidate than rigidly follow his ideology. This would be a solid foundation for a leader of any other country but the United States. Which has drifted so far to the right that such a person could actually be called socialist.

I think the lion's share of the problems the United States are facing are a result of corruption, negligence, extreme partisanship, and painfully inadequate competency on the part of the legislative branch. For as long as I've been alive at least.