Dating "Deal Braker"

[Nikkoru]

Except that's more of a cultural product than natural tendency. What's physically attractive to us changes too much to be something latent. Usually it correlates to some degree to what people perceive as healthy, but for the most part it's all an illusion.

Certain skin tone, eye colour, and high or low cheekbones may unconsciously draw my attention and admiration or not -- but I would not refuse to date someone on those grounds.  It just seems poor grounds to put an absolute term like "deal breaker" on it.

Also, this is apropos to your previous kerfuffle about feminism. 

[rostheferret]

It will probably sound like I am a racist, but I can't help but feel that certain races are just not attractive to me. Although I agree that for example mulatto looks usually prettier than pure black chick, although even then I find caucasians more attractive.

While I agree that interbreeding is not a preferable outcome for the humanity's genetic pool, I wouldn't condemn people that just follow their aesthetic sense if they prefer to breed with their own ethnic group.

It's not racist to be physically attracted or not to certain physical characteristics.  We're men, we're hardwired to pick up on visual cues, after all.  I'm not particularly attracted to certain characteristics more commonly seen on black women -- for instance, I don't like the wide, flat nose with large nostrils, certain hair styles (braids, corn rows), women with gigantic butts or who are too fat.  I've seen a few black women who I think are attractive but a great many just don't do it for me.
 
I do think it's silly and wrong to make moral judgements about a person based on their appearance -- this where it can cross the line into racism.  A black women is no less of a person just because I don't find her physically attractive.  So as far as the thing about people following an aesthetic preference to interbreed with their own ethnic group, if it's a decision based on what a person finds attractive, I don't have a problem with it.  But if it's a decision based on whether someone thinks it's wrong to interbreed with other races because they are inferior for reasons x, y, and z, then I'd have to slap a swastika on their forehead.

I've wrestled with a similar question myself; given that I don't instinctively find coloured women attractive, is there a subconscious racist part of my mind? Or just a psychological preference? I'm leaning towards the latter - if it does affect my behaviour then it probably isn't too noticeable... I hope - but it does give me food for thought. When we're considering subconscious actions, how do you amend that?

As for the "Japanese teeth," it's one that seems to affect the entire region (I know most from Singapore, Malaysia and Korea have pretty awful teeth as well), but I'm in the crowd finding minor issues like that attractive. I don't find 'perfection' attractive at all; the idea of of a perfectly symmetrical face, perfectly white teeth and a perfect skin complexion just makes you look unrealistic, like a doll almost. A couple of quirks to break that up and make you look human is a good thing. I can't speak for Japan (not been there) but Malaysia had a LOT of very attractive women. When I went shopping, it wasn't the windows I spent most of my time looking at...

[Mistgun_Zero]

and extremely short hair are just del breakers

Extremely short hair can be rather attractive on certain girls. I have experienced such a realization not too long ago when a female classmate cut her hair shorter than a good deal of the males. She is much more attractive now IMHO.

Deal-Breakers for me would be:
dumb

Same here. Also had the same incident with short hair's. Still prefer long, long hair, but if it matches that girl ain't no problem.

[Ixarku]

Except that's more of a cultural product than natural tendency. What's physically attractive to us changes too much to be something latent. Usually it correlates to some degree to what people perceive as healthy, but for the most part it's all an illusion.

Certain skin tone, eye colour, and high or low cheekbones may unconsciously draw my attention and admiration or not -- but I would not refuse to date someone on those grounds.  It just seems poor grounds to put an absolute term like "deal breaker" on it.

I think you're making a moral judgement here, and I'm going to have to disagree.  While a lot of what we judge people's appearances by is certainly learned, some of it is instinctive.  For example, facial symmetry is one of those things that people pick up on unconsciously, and it's one of those markers by which we can tell if someone comes from good genetic stock or not.  But regardless, there's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to date someone or not on the basis of their physical characteristics, as long as you're not being a hypocrite about it.  It may sound silly & shallow to say, "I'll never date someone with a big nose," or "If she's got no ass, I'm not interested," but the reality is that people make these kinds of judgments every day.  A lot of people like to pretend that they're above those sorts of judgements when they're really not, and those are the people that annoy me.

[Nikkoru]

Except that's more of a cultural product than natural tendency. What's physically attractive to us changes too much to be something latent. Usually it correlates to some degree to what people perceive as healthy, but for the most part it's all an illusion.

Certain skin tone, eye colour, and high or low cheekbones may unconsciously draw my attention and admiration or not -- but I would not refuse to date someone on those grounds.  It just seems poor grounds to put an absolute term like "deal breaker" on it.

I think you're making a moral judgement here, and I'm going to have to disagree.  While a lot of what we judge people's appearances by is certainly learned, some of it is instinctive.  For example, facial symmetry is one of those things that people pick up on unconsciously, and it's one of those markers by which we can tell if someone comes from good genetic stock or not.  But regardless, there's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to date someone or not on the basis of their physical characteristics, as long as you're not being a hypocrite about it.  It may sound silly & shallow to say, "I'll never date someone with a big nose," or "If she's got no ass, I'm not interested," but the reality is that people make these kinds of judgments every day.  A lot of people like to pretend that they're above those sorts of judgements when they're really not, and those are the people that annoy me.

I judge everyone at all times, that's natural. The criticism however, is that those preferences aren't natural -- wanting a healthy mate is -- but the "big nose" or "flat ass" antithesis are just representative of larger cultural prejudices. The idea that you're "hard wired" to a certain type is simply fallacious, it's a personal/social abstraction not something you're born to accept. I don't think someone is racist for not being attracted to someone outside their homogeneity, but it's certainly part of the racial consciousness imposed on the contemporary human condition. As are people who only consider dating women or men of another marginally different phenotype aesthetic. Anyone who's studied the history of interracial sexual relationships in the United States for the last 200 years or so could easily draw larger conclusions around heterogeneity than simple taste in men or women.   

If someone, with frankness, said that they were only interested in Chinese men/women - I suspect I would be bemused and self-conscious about it should I have entered a romantic relationship with them. It speaks of deeper psychological machination which may have unpleasant conclusions.

No, I won't say I condemn whomever you choose to date or not - man, woman, fish - but if you find yourself continually frustrated romantically it may be worth some introspection as to why you like or dislike what you do rather than simply accepting that's how you are.

[Goldfrapp]

So what are you getting at? That since women have the hardest time in the process of creating offspring, the males shouldn't get paternal leave so they can assist in order to ease the burden? Ok, got it, apparently females want to deal with it alone as long as they have the monopoly on paternal leave.

Anyways, I don't have any troubles giving my bf daddyleave so he can spend time with the kids, I'm all for sharing.
But I would have loved if we could have shared the first couple of months so he could have done practical stuff like cooking/cleaning/shopping and so on, while I was sitting, sleepdeprived on my sore butt with my sore tits out, feeding the hungry baby. I can promise you, fulltime work was not what I longed after, for a very long time:P

[AceHigh]

Except that's more of a cultural product than natural tendency. What's physically attractive to us changes too much to be something latent. Usually it correlates to some degree to what people perceive as healthy, but for the most part it's all an illusion.

I would add that it is also in our instincts to perceive things we are used to as safe and unknown with suspicion. Probably a factor in our preferences when we grow up in society that is composed of people with similar physical characteristics. Heh, even if I know that, I still can't help having preferences like that. Also, I wouldn't limit it to the tradition definition of "race" either, I don't really like the physical appearance of gingers, so I guess it's more about ethnic groups. Asians would be a wildcard, some of them are pretty, others are an uncanny valley for me.

[Saras]

The only black women I've ever found attractive were more likely than not of Ethiopian ancestry. Anyway, still what's considered attractive changes with time, there is no question there. However, that does not mean that we don't have preferences or that we shouldn't.

[Nikkoru]

Except that's more of a cultural product than natural tendency. What's physically attractive to us changes too much to be something latent. Usually it correlates to some degree to what people perceive as healthy, but for the most part it's all an illusion.

I would add that it is also in our instincts to perceive things we are used to as safe and unknown with suspicion

This is true, although to a large part that's related to cultural preferences as well -- how integrated a society is and how they're represented. After all, most ethnic groups have no particular phenotypal difference from their neighbours.

Chances are you're going to find someone within your economic class, culture, and likely within your sub-culture as well. This usually corresponds to something along racial lines, that's reality historically speaking -- and part of the reason interracial relationships have been on the rise is that those economic and cultural lines are becoming far less apparent. As much as they say love is irrational, it's actually fairly predictable.

Speaking as someone who's a visible minority raised in an environment not totally dissimilar to the one in The Magic School Bus, sans Magic, I've got little in the way of preference in that respect. I do however, find myself disconcertingly attracted to free spirited teachers.

[JoonasTo]

Here's a the counterpart for males.




Top three for women:
Uzbek
Italian
Ethiopian

Worst three for women:
African American
Japanese
Samoan

Top three for men:
Hungary
France
West Africa

Worst three for men:
African American
Japanese
Samoan

This could be worth it's own thread already though

[kadatherion]

As for the "Japanese teeth," it's one that seems to affect the entire region (I know most from Singapore, Malaysia and Korea have pretty awful teeth as well), but I'm in the crowd finding minor issues like that attractive. I don't find 'perfection' attractive at all; the idea of of a perfectly symmetrical face, perfectly white teeth and a perfect skin complexion just makes you look unrealistic, like a doll almost. A couple of quirks to break that up and make you look human is a good thing. I can't speak for Japan (not been there) but Malaysia had a LOT of very attractive women. When I went shopping, it wasn't the windows I spent most of my time looking at...

Absolutely, a little "imperfection" can sometimes give a lot of personality to a face. Just think how popular Laetitia Casta was for several years, and how she kind of got under the spotlight at first for having those far from perfect teeth.


As for the chat about ethnic preferences, heh, can't help it, it just happens certain races have common traits one does not find attractive. For instance I rarely find black women very attractive for quite similar reasons as Ixarku: I'd add the mouths too, as I dislike large lips (thus I find those women who actually turn to surgery to inflate them horrifying... bleargh).
As I also prefer oval shaped faces over square-jawed ones I'm also often not much into some northern european ethnic groups.

Of course this is far from being even close to the "deal breakers" we were talking about, but preferences are pretty natural.

I've noticed that every once in a while I'll see a pic of an exceptionally beautiful female celebrity, and then when I look up information on her, it turns out that she's a mix of several different ethnic identities.  It's part of the reason why I chuckle at the racist groups who clamor for something as ludicrous as maintaining racial purity.  Makes me think, "Sure, why don't you racist folks go into isolation somewhere and interbreed for a few generations, and let's see how well your racial purity improves your genetic stock over time."

Absolutely. It's normal, mulattos tend to have an healthier genetic stock and often their looks show it by being on average more "attractive" (as in more consistent with those traits we subconsciously recognize that way). Aesthetics aside, every kind of racial purity preaching is ludicrous, as the smaller the breeding pool is the weaker the genetic stock gets. It's on a far larger scale, and as such potential health issues are far less severe and the time needed to actually have measurable results is far longer, but it's pretty much the same thing that made us instinctively learn that breeding with members of our own family is a no-no.

Which leads me to wonder if how Japanese are used to inbreeding on the same small island for thousands of years has anything to do with their fetish about little sisters... 

[rostheferret]

Which leads me to wonder if how Japanese are used to inbreeding on the same small island for thousands of years has anything to do with their fetish about little sisters... 

Or the whole thing surrounding cousins; nobody batting an eyelid if the two of them get it on. Like the gene pool is far enough removed at this point for it all be ok...

[Saras]

I believe I heard about a practice of adopting a "perspective future spouse" for their children in the recent past, to ensure a suitable companion for their own children. I've also heard that as a reason as to why the whole "blood-unrelated sibling" love interest comes into play in manga. But take that with a grain of salt, as the source for it was 4chan.

I suppose you could also tie this in with the story of Hikari Genji and his wife-to-be by own design, Murasaki.

[undetz]

I think you mean "prospective".

[Saras]

I probably do.

[Roven]

Girls who are really into Asian culture (By that I mean Japan and South Korea).
 

[undetz]

Girls who are really into Asian culture (By that I mean Japan and South Korea).

How about Tibetan culture?

[Roven]

I doubt they know what that is. The girls I have in mind anyways.
I meant naive girls (or people in general) who think everything works out like what they see in Doramas and shit. Or worse, they think that it all what happens in these countries.

[AceHigh]

Hahaha, you are talking of japanophiles, I guess? Those are annoying no matter what gender.

[Burkingam]

My worst turn off are people who are mean e.g. violent, always badmouthing others, dishonest, thieves.