Building a desktop

[Hebbe]

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sound card : im kind of against buying dedicated sound card, since buying one doesn't necessarily mean the quality of your sound system will improve a notch, now a day's onboards (ALC889, ALC892, ALC898) are top-notch and can output quite a clear sound.
one thing you should do before considering one is to clarify if your sound system can output the quality that the sound card will give, since if you got a crappy headphone for example it'll be a waste of money to opt for a sound card where buying a better headphone would result in a more profitable manner. oh and op-amps works too.

Speaker: z623, the bass is a bit flat, and some frequency it doesn't do well, so I don't think my speaker would benefit that much
Headphones: Audio-Technica ATH-M50, I don't have anything define to complain about here, so I assume it will get most benefit out of a sound card.

SSD changed it to a Crucial M4 128 GB SSD

HDD Western Digital 750 GB Scorpio Black (WD7500BPKT), I have a lot of music I listen to and so on, so I will need a HDD that can handle getting a lot of read and write on it.

MOBO So if I went with the ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard you recommended, will I be able to add a soundcard, or won't that be necessary?

RAM would CL9 ( 9-9-9-24 ) make it a bottleneck? I'm leaning most too 2x4, since most of the 2x8 have CL10, and if they have below that the price increase quite a lot, so I think it is better to upgrade to more, when I start needing it.

GPU: I have considered to get a ati/amd one, but I have had quite a lot of problems with them in there mobile version( I think around 50 crash caused by the gpu), so I will look to see if I can find a GTX instead.
Is there a site that show a list of graphic cards, and what they are capable of running? I know a site for mobile graphic cards, but that doesn't really help much here.

CPU: still thinking if I should bump it op to i7, I will look a bit more into it.

Edit:
Looked around for a GPU and found ASUS ENGTX560 Ti DCII/2DI/1GD5 (90-C1CQ90-L0UAY0YZ) to be very good for its performance to price ratio

That Scorpio is 2,5" "laptop" hard drive. I suggest going for example with WD caviar black 1 TB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533) These even still have that 5 yr warranty.

[mrdkreka]

I find it interesting that your HDD of choice is a Scorpio. That's WD's line of 2.5"/laptop drives, isn't it? Any reason why you're not getting a Caviar (i.e. 3.5"/desktop)?

nah just the one I found which was Scorpio was a 2.5, but changing it to Western Digital 1000GB Black 64 MB 3.5", SATA-600(WD1002FAEX) (one Hebbe recommended) will only increase the price slightly, so I will get that one instead.

You can add a sound card to pretty much any board AFAIK. I've always found onboard sound to be good enough for my needs - IMO sound cards are largely for audiophiles, or multi-channel sound if the board doesn't already support that. I really doubt that any issues you're having with your audio are caused by your lack of a sound card...

I also doubt it will do much to the speaker, since the flat bass is caused by the small size of the subwoofer. So I will wait and see if I'm happy with the generated output of the motherboard before buying a sound card.

CL9 is pretty standard for DDR3. If you're getting large RAM sticks, you can't go much lower. The lowest latency you can get in DDR3 is CL6, only available in 2GB (or maybe 1GB) sticks, and the price per GB compared to the performance increase (which is pretty much negligible for all users that are not enthusiasts/benchmarkers) is not worth it. You mentioned most 2x8 have CL10, but I recall seeing one of the cheapest 4x8 kits being CL9 (G.Skill Ares series), though granted the clock speed is not very high. That brings up the point that you should also look at clock speed when comparing RAM.
TL;DR - your RAM should not be a bottleneck.

I couldn't find 2x8 or 4x8 G.Skill Ares in stores for my region, I think they will be more available in the future, so I will go with 2x4 for now, and upgrade in the future.

For GPU comparisons I mostly look at Wikipedia (lol). If you find a cool site, let me know, I'd like to see it too. If I'm not mistaken, the card you picked out is one generation behind, but that's probably not a problem, right?

yeah, I'm pretty sure you are right with it being one generation old, but it still performs well and can handle new game, so I think it will be sufficient for my gaming need.

Edit:
Updated the list and find what it would cost where I live

MOBO: 1024kr ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: 1675kr Intel Core i5 3570K (ivy bridge).

GPU: 1685kr ASUS ENGTX560 Ti DCII/2DI/1GD5 (90-C1CQ90-L0UAY0YZ)

Ram: 377kr Corsair 8GB DDR3 1600MHz (2x4) (CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9)

PSU: 850kr Corsair Enthusiast Serie Modular TX750M

SDD: 981kr Crucial M4 128 GB SSD

HDD: 868kr Western Digital 1000GB Black 64 MB 3.5", SATA-600(WD1002FAEX)

CPU Cooling: 232kr Thermaltake Contac 29 BP

Optical Drive: 151kr Samsung SH-222AB DVD±RW Black (upgrade to BD in future)

Cabinet: 686kr Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced (RC-692-KKN2)

Screen: 2076kr Dell 24" UltraSharp U2412M IPS Panel

Sound card: (523kr)  -------ASUS Xonar DX/XD/A------- (didn't include)

Price total: 10605kr = 1866 US$

Since it is a bit lower than I thought it would end up with, I could probably upgrade one of the components

[Hebbe]

Sounds like a good build. If your going to upgrade one of the component's that really should be the GPU. On the other hand if you don't mind having dated GPU you could always get another hard drive (raid setup?) and Fractal Design R3 is an excellent case to consider.

[mrdkreka]

Well if I get another hard drive I would be an external one, since I will still be using my laptop for school, where it is nice to have easy access to data.

the GPU is the one I'm leaning most to upgrade, but having a bit of trouble finding a better one that aren't to expensive

What would be the reason to go with Fractal Design R3 over Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced?

[Hebbe]

Well if I get another hard drive I would be an external one, since I will still be using my laptop for school, where it is nice to have easy access to data.

the GPU is the one I'm leaning most to upgrade, but having a bit of trouble finding a better one that aren't to expensive

What would be the reason to go with Fractal Design R3 over Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced?

Well define R3 has that noise absorbing material and minimalistic and sleek desingn. But if you don't mind about the noise... well it's only about your opinion which looks better.

[mrdkreka]

@Hebbe
well noise reduction would be nice, but will R3 still be able to keep it well cooled?

[Hebbe]

@Hebbe
well noise reduction would be nice, but will R3 still be able to keep it well cooled?

Yes, actually it is hard to find case in this price range that couldn't keep your components at normal temperature range.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2010/10/29/fractal-design-define-r3-review/2
compared to CM 690 II case Define R3 is doing really good job considering it has noise dampening material.

[Saras]

To be honest, I'd probably go for the 7850, as it's pretty much at the exact price point as the 560ti, maybe like ~10$ on average more, at least what concerns my local retailers.

On average it's about 5-8% better while having the benefit of having a TDP of 130W compared to the 560ti's 170W

I've also heard a lot of praise what concerns OC'ing it.

Also, two 7770's in crossfire seems to work lovely. And it's also ~+50$ on the 560ti, and it's a lot better.

[mrdkreka]

To be honest, I'd probably go for the 7850, as it's pretty much at the exact price point as the 560ti, maybe like ~10$ on average more, at least what concerns my local retailers.

On average it's about 5-8% better while having the benefit of having a TDP of 130W compared to the 560ti's 170W

I've also heard a lot of praise what concerns OC'ing it.

So If I went with 7850 would it be worth going for the CoolStream edition?

I try to avoid Radeon, because there mobile stuff is pure crap, but if they are good when it comes to PC I guess it wouldn't hurt to get Radeon.

@Hebbe
I will go with the R3 then, the design is quite nice, and I guess I can always add more fans if the standard isn't sufficient enough.

[Saras]

To be honest, I'd probably go for the 7850, as it's pretty much at the exact price point as the 560ti, maybe like ~10$ on average more, at least what concerns my local retailers.

On average it's about 5-8% better while having the benefit of having a TDP of 130W compared to the 560ti's 170W

I've also heard a lot of praise what concerns OC'ing it.

So If I went with 7850 would it be worth going for the CoolStream edition?

I try to avoid Radeon, because there mobile stuff is pure crap, but if they are good when it comes to PC I guess it wouldn't hurt to get Radeon.

@Hebbe
I will go with the R3 then, the design is quite nice, and I guess I can always add more fans if the standard isn't sufficient enough.

I wouldn't. I'd spend the extra cash to get an i7 ivy. To remain within the 2k$ budget. Yeah, by the looks of it, even in Europe. You could get a standard edition 7850 and i7-3770 and remain in your price range.


As for power consumption, both the 3570k and the 3770 are rated for the same TDP, that is 77W. The 3570 will generally use a bit less, but I doubt that the difference in power consumption is larger than 5-8W.

[Hebbe]

i7-3770 isn't really worth the extra 100$ if video encoding/something similar isn't the main objective of that build.

[Saras]

i7-3770 isn't really worth the extra 100$ if video encoding/something similar isn't the main objective of that build.

It's not really 100$ thought. It's more like 50-60. The 3770K is ~100 bucks more. And to be honest, the 3770 is quite a bit more future-proof than the 3570. It should be easily functional for quite a few years from now.

And when you count in roughly a year and bit saved on upgrading your system, a bit more than some odd 50$'s sounds like a bargain. If he wants to play the newest and the greatest from this point onward to about 2016, a new gpu is the only thing he'll need to think about.

[datora]

.
Overall, I think your build list is very solid.  To get an idea (for myself) how this translated between our regions, I broke down the individual conversions:

10,605 Kr = $ 1866
conversion rate: 5.6833

1024 = $ 180.18 (mobo)
1675 = $ 297.36 (CPU)
 232 = $  40.82 (cooling block)
1685 = $ 296.48 (GPU)
 377 = $  66.34 (RAM)
 850 = $ 149.56 (PSU)
 981 = $ 172.61 (SDD)
 868 = $ 152.73 (HDD)
 151 = $  25.57 (DVD)
 686 = $ 120.71 (case)
_______
8529 = $1502.36


2076 = $ 365.28 (monitor)
_______
10605= $1867.64  (difference should be rounding error, but I was also typing fast )

These appear to be most of the components as available at newegg currently:

mobo:
ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX
Your mobo+CPU combination will allow you to overclock a little; once you're stable, look into it.  There are small, very safe tweaks you can do to pick up a noticeable edge on the CPU and (possibly) a smaller edge on RAM.

CPU:
i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K
That is an expensive CPU, but should last you for years.  I see where people are overclocking it safely to 3.8 & 4.0 GHz.  Might be worth it at some point, but for your current use it might not make enough difference.  Just keep it in mind for one future "upgrade" that might be possible for free.

cooling block:
Not @newegg; doesn't matter, the general class this one seems to be in is more than adequate, even for mild overclock.

GPU:
ASUS ENGTX560 DC/2DI/1GD5 GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCIe 2.0 x16
Unless you move into high-end games, this is a hell of a lot of GPU.  Also, this card can be overclocked safely to get some extra performance out of it, should it fall short on a particular software/game.  Again, a "free upgrade" to consider if it seems to cause you issues at some point.

RAM:
CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9
Don't worry about the 9-9-9-24 ... it's standard at this clock speed.  If you decide to overclock later on, you might be able to attempt 8-8-8-24 (maybe even with a slight voltage tweak); but don't worry about it.  Won't make much difference beyond benchmark numbers.  In the future you can look at a 2x 8 GB kit and add it.  Get one with good voltage match & timing numbers & make sure to put the 16 GB in the first bank and move the 8 GB kit to the second bank and you'll have 24 GB total running no slower than this timing.  I can't imagine using that much, but a few short years ago I couldn't imagine needing more than 2 or maybe 3 GB ... 

There was this topic, make sure to check out vuzedome's link:
» General Discussions » Technology » PC Memory Knowledge

PSU:
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750M 750W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Semi Modular
This is WAAAAY overpowered for your build.  The 650 version of this PSU would be overpowered by a substantial margin.  If you are considering a second GPU card in SLI as an upgrade, then this 750 would be good insurance.  I mean, it's real nice, don't get me wrong, but (short of dual-GPUs), you're never going to come close to needing this much.

SSD:
Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC
Sorry that's so expensive for you.  This is obviously one of my top picks, currently ... so ... hope very much it treats you very well.  Take the time to research it with some google searches and at the Crucial website/forums.  SSDs aren't perfectly plug-n-play yet, so some tweaks & settings are often necessary for top performance.

HDD:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
The discussion for Scorpios was merely for possibility, depending on opportunity; also, they use less power & run cooler, which could be a more serious consideration in other situations (such as a compact case for).  This Caviar should be one of the most stable drives available on today's market.  The shame of it is that they were less than half this price last August.

DVD burner: (not exact model match)
SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner 22X SATA SH-222BB/BEBE
I hadn't though about it, but I usually recommend ASUS 24X DVD Burner DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS or whatever their current, equivalent model is.  As far as I know, the Samsung is good ... I just have brand loyalty to ASUS on this item because I've had so many over the years and they've always performed flawlessly.

case:
COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
Looks pretty good to me; I'm big on function and don't care about looks.  This case has enormous capacity for function and cooling, so it's a bit pricey for me (I usually target ~$70), but it should not disappoint you.


monitor:
not at newegg, but it's one of the better Dell lines, so it should be very hard to be disappointed.  I've spent most of my time considering ASUS monitors in their budget line, but there are compromises I have to accept when looking at those.  I currently have a 22" Dell that's been in service for over two years ... I live & swear by it.   Not been disappointed at all in it, and this was one of their budget offerings.

[mrdkreka]

@Freedom kira
I found a site that do pretty good comparisons in benchmark and price ratio
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
I still don't see what I will use all the power of an i7 ivy bridge, but I guess that it is better going a bit over the top, than regret not too do it in the future.

gpu: I will go with 7850 then, by doing that I can in the future do crossfire if it become a necessity.

Since there is a minimum of 25% tax on everything the difference is a bit bigger.

1675kr / 295$ (3570K i5) vs 2411kr / 424$  (i7 3770K)
2177kr/ 383$(i7 3770) vs 2411kr / 424$  (i7 3770K)   - is the difference worth 50$ more?

edit:
Didn't see your post Datora before I posted will read it and then make a list of what I have changed

MOBO: 1024kr ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

CPU: 1762kr maybe Intel Core i5 3570K (ivy bridge). - I can't see why I should get the 3770k over the 3770? so I might go with the 3770 if I should go with i7

GPU: 1762kr Club 3D Radeon HD 7850 (2 GB) (CGAX-7856) -changed

Ram: 377kr Corsair 8GB DDR3 1600MHz (2x4) (CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9) -  well I have managed with 4gb in my laptop, without needing to close stuff because of to little memory, but then again the browser adjust to the memory it have to work with, to bad a lot of wannabe tech people don't know that and complain about the browser using to much

PSU: 645kr Corsair Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 (CMPSU-650TXV2EU) - would I need a TX750M if I went crossfire?

SDD: 981kr Crucial M4 128 GB SSD -  It is a bit more expensive as you said Datora, but people also recommend it where I live even thought it is a bit more epensive.

HDD: 868kr Western Digital 1000GB Black 64 MB 3.5", SATA-600(WD1002FAEX) - the high prices on HDD was one of the reason I have delayed building a desktop together with the release of ivy bridge

CPU Cooling: 232kr Thermaltake Contac 29 BP

Optical Drive: 151kr Samsung SH-222AB DVD±RW Black (upgrade to BD in future) - Can't find the asus one, but it doesn't matter much, doubt I will use it more than one or two times on a year.

Cabinet: 740kr Fractal Design Design Define R3 Black

Screen: 2076kr Dell 24" UltraSharp U2412M IPS Panel - went with dell over the asus one mostly because IPS>TFF

10605kr=1866.16185 US$

[Hebbe]

i7-3770 isn't really worth the extra 100$ if video encoding/something similar isn't the main objective of that build.

It's not really 100$ thought. It's more like 50-60. The 3770K is ~100 bucks more. And to be honest, the 3770 is quite a bit more future-proof than the 3570. It should be easily functional for quite a few years from now.

And when you count in roughly a year and bit saved on upgrading your system, a bit more than some odd 50$'s sounds like a bargain. If he wants to play the newest and the greatest from this point onward to about 2016, a new gpu is the only thing he'll need to think about.

The newest and the greatest to 2016? I don't think so. Intel has quite a bit of new tech coming almost every year.
-2013 may-june: New architecture (Haswell).
-2014: die shrink to 14 nm (Broadwell)
-2015: new 14 nm architecture (Skylake)
...

And I don't think 3770 is anymore future proof than 3570. Both have 4 physical cores and same clock speed. 3770 only has Hyper-threading. It's really not that big of a deal.

[vuzedome]

Must be personal choice then, well the fractal R3 lacks a window on the side panel so no point buying components that look good I guess.

And I don't think the 3770 isn't going to be much of an advantage over a 3570.
You'd probably be upgrading again in 2014 regardless.

[Hebbe]

Must be personal choice then, well the fractal R3 lacks a window on the side panel so no point buying components that look good I guess.

And I don't think the 3770 isn't going to be much of an advantage over a 3570.
You'd probably be upgrading again in 2014 regardless.

2-year cycle is quite optimal for keeping up with the greatest tech atm. I have been trying to keep upgrading every 2 year, but I think I'll have to wait third year this time since back in 2010 I paid 2300$ for parts alone.

[Saras]

i7-3770 isn't really worth the extra 100$ if video encoding/something similar isn't the main objective of that build.

It's not really 100$ thought. It's more like 50-60. The 3770K is ~100 bucks more. And to be honest, the 3770 is quite a bit more future-proof than the 3570. It should be easily functional for quite a few years from now.

And when you count in roughly a year and bit saved on upgrading your system, a bit more than some odd 50$'s sounds like a bargain. If he wants to play the newest and the greatest from this point onward to about 2016, a new gpu is the only thing he'll need to think about.

The newest and the greatest to 2016? I don't think so. Intel has quite a bit of new tech coming almost every year.
-2013 may-june: New architecture (Haswell).
-2014: die shrink to 14 nm (Broadwell)
-2015: new 14 nm architecture (Skylake)
...

And I don't think 3770 is anymore future proof than 3570. Both have 4 physical cores and same clock speed. 3770 only has Hyper-threading. It's really not that big of a deal.

I'd say you can save up for one extra generation by going to an i7 instead of an i5.

By the looks of it, the 3570 can't match the 2600k by a longshot and the stock 960 basically ranks the same as the stock 2500k. I very well expect the new architecture i5 to be roughly equivalent to the the current 3770 and the broadwell i5 or equivalent to be ~10-15% better. Then I suspect that it will be equivalent to the skywell i3 or equivalent. Top of the line by 2016? Fuck no, but I don't see it being non-functional. I believe that seems like a reasonable assumption.

And if you look at the prospects of future proofing. The difference between the CPU cycles seem to be quite a bit lower than the difference between GPU cycles. Hell, the q6600 still seems to be very much functional, shit was released when? 06, I believe? Show me someone seriously gaming on a 8800.

What concerns HT, the difference now might be minor, but if we are talking about future-proofing. I see no reason why it couldn't be put to use in a few years. And besides, while he might be using it to the fullest now, he might get a hobby in a year or a bit that will. And the buyers remorse of saving 50$ could suck quite a bit.

@mrdkreka
50$ from 3770 to 3770k? If you intend to OC it, yes. If no, fuck no.

[mrdkreka]

I'd say you can save up for one extra generation by going to an i7 instead of an i5.

And if you look at the prospects of future proofing. The difference between the CPU cycles seem to be quite a bit lower than the difference between GPU cycles. Hell, the q6600 still seems to be very much functional, shit was released when? 06, I believe? Show me someone seriously gaming on a 8800.

What concerns HT, the difference now might be minor, but if we are talking about future-proofing. I see no reason why it couldn't be put to use in a few years. And besides, while he might be using it to the fullest now, he might get a hobby in a year or a bit that will. And the buyers remorse of saving 50$ could suck quite a bit.

@mrdkreka
50$ from 3770 to 3770k? If you intend to OC it, yes. If no, fuck no.

Well it isn't that much more for i7 3770 compared to i5 3570K, so I guess I will go with that one

I think the list might be final unless I'm overlooking something
MOBO: 1024kr ASRock Z77 Extreme4 (Z77 EXTREME4)

CPU: 2177kr Intel Core i7 3770 Ivy Bridge (BX80637I73770)

GPU: 1762kr Club 3D Radeon HD 7850 (2 GB) (CGAX-7856)

Ram: 377kr Corsair 8GB DDR3 1600MHz (2x4) (CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9)

PSU: 645kr Corsair Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 (CMPSU-650TXV2EU)

SDD: 981kr Crucial M4 128 GB SSD

HDD: 868kr Western Digital 1000GB Black 64 MB 3.5", SATA-600(WD1002FAEX)

CPU Cooling: 232kr Thermaltake Contac 29 BP

Optical Drive: 151kr Samsung SH-222AB DVD±RW Black (upgrade to BD in future)

Cabinet: 740kr Fractal Design Design Define R3 Black

Screen: 2076kr Dell 24" UltraSharp U2412M IPS Panel -


11033kr = 1941 US$

[Hebbe]

Ultimately it's up to you what you are buying. But it looks good to me