Author Topic: Building a desktop  (Read 1581 times)

Online mrdkreka

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Building a desktop
« on: May 05, 2012, 07:38:20 AM »
So since I have used laptops mostly for the past 4 years, and it is pretty expensive every time I needed to upgrade, I thought it was about time to build my own desktop, but I would like some advise for what I should get.

I will be using it for medium gaming, playing games like Diablo 3 and GW2, so I doesn't really need the top of the iceberg graphic Card. then I will also be using it as a media-center, so it shouldn't make to much noise. I have done a few thoughts of what to get, but some components I'm pretty blank on.

Budget: thinking around 2000$

Motherboard: one that support ivy bridge?
CPU: I planned on buying an ivy bridge, but if sandy bridge soon will fall in price I will buy that instead.
GPU: ?
Ram: probably Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 8GB CL9
Power supply: one that will allow me to upgrade my desktop in the future.
HDD: planned on buying 60GB SSD for OS and a HDD for the rest
CPU Cooling: probably  a fan that doesn't make to much noise.
Optical Drive: Maybe BD reader unless they are still very expensive?
Sound card: I was thinking something like ASUS Xonar DX/XD/A
Cabinet: ?

Screen:
I have a bit of a dilemma if I should buy one above 1080p, since it will means a lot of content like movies will be upscaled, which can makes it look worse than pixels being more visible. So if anyone using something higher than 1080p can give some advise, it would help a lot.

Mouse and keyboard:
Mouse need minimum 3 extra keys I can change to what I need it too be.
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Online kitamesume

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 08:12:29 AM »
again?

monitor - well try looking up dell's IPS 27", it has a screen resolution of 2560x1440 tho quite pricy.

motherboard... well i cant really suggest a specific model but try looking for ones with two PCI-E16 running at at least (8x 8x) and not (16x 4x), but since you're opting for a sound card you might want to go full atx for extra slots. the two PCI-E16's purpose is for simple reasons of adding another card later on instead of replacing the card itself.

processor - target the i7 ivy-bridge so you wouln't be having any second thoughts of it's performance.

ram - the ram seems fine.

GPU - one HD7850 or GTX680(GTX660 doesn't exist yet) should do the trick, buy another one if you feel like its not enough anymore.

HDD - bump the SSD to 128GB, well simply because it's the sweet spot of SSDs now a days in both price and capacity, a 500gb blue WD drive for a main drive(games, etc, that is if you can't fit them in the ssd) and a 2TB green WD drive for storage should also cover your other needs.

cpu cooling - most of the time the stocks is a-ok, but if you're targeting lower temps or quieter performance, try looking up coolmaster Hyper 212 EVO.

power supply - 750watts corsair-AX should do the trick, or the 850watts if you want more room to play with but really 750watts is enough >,>.

ODD - meh BD drives are still expensive.

sound card - try omega-HT, but for now, try to hold purchasing a card since the onboard ALC889/ALC892 is pretty decent for casual listening, buy one if you're not satisfied with the onboard.

cabinet/case - lian-li cases looks pretty neat.


i'll edit this later to fill in the details.

EDIT:

« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 10:11:08 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 09:03:19 AM »
Motherboard: ASUS Maximus V Gene LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Best motherboard for Ivy Bridge including high-end features. Period. $210 -- On another note, this board features an excellent sound chip. Look over the video.

ASUS P8Z77-M LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard. $146 -- this board goes good with one of the sound cards below.

ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard. $240 -- excellent board all-around. Don't let it scare you or listen to people who shoot it down. It is an excellent board and will last for a very, very long time.

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770. $320

CPU Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B 135mm Long life bearing CPU Cooler Blue LED. $64 -- Can't go wrong with this. Beast at cooling your CPU to the core. I want it ...

GPU: This one will be very tough depending on your choices. In my personal opinion, I would hold off on this (save whatever money you have) and wait for the nVidia GTX 700 series or wait for the GTX 660/670 series to release. The GTX 680 is not worth it. Don't go to any of the GTX 500 series or below.

As for ATI/AMD graphic cards, I don't have experience on them. I don't recommend them either - heating issues/dispenses more heat in your case. Sucks more power. Driver issues. Features not on competitive pair with nVidia's. It does play games like it should be - which people will only care about. These are based on research.

RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ8GX3M1A1600C10. This is what you're probably looking for. This is a single RAM. But, I wouldn't go with this one. $62

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL10S-8GBXL. Memory I would go for. $60

Power Supply: CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power Supply. $105 - Non-modular.

CORSAIR Professional Series HX750 (CMPSU-750HX) 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply. $150 - Modular. I'd go with this one.

SSD: Corsair Force Series 3 CSSD-F60GB3A-BK 2.5" 60GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD). $80.

HDD: HITACHI Deskstar 0S03228 3TB 5400 RPM SATA 3.5" Internal Hard Drive. $200 -- storage for media like videos, music, pictures and other stand-by files. Not for gaming or torrenting!

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive. $140 -- Excellent for gaming and torrenting or if your going to do something consistent/non-stop. Con? 1TB ...

HITACHI Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723020BLA642 (0f12115) 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive. $140 - 2TB, good for gaming and torrenting. Nice price.

Optical Drive: LG Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RAM 10X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA 12X Super Multi Blue with 3D Playback & M-DISC Support WH12LS39 LightScribe Support - OEM. $80 -- simple and easy to install.

Sound Card: ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card. $72 - PCI Express x1.

ASUS Xonar D1 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card. $82 - PCI Interface.

Monitor: ASUS VS248H-P Black 24" 2ms HDMI LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 ASCR 50,000,000:1. $180 / $220 - depends on the deal. LED, 2ms, excellent for movies, graphics and gaming. (this is what I have, there are other good ones).

Mouse: I personally like G-series. If your going to go with a game with tons of buttons, get the Razer Naga.

Keyboard: I am not very experienced with keyboards ... they don't last long, ... except the last two they've lasted long. I'm using Razer Lycosa which is pretty cool and slick. Nice music features and backlights behind it. I don't recommend it thou'. It's long-lasting, but the buttons wear off if you use them too much after 6 months (owner of this keyboard for 2 years, it's still kick ass).

Case: Finally at this, depends on your preference. I personally bought Antec DF-85 Black Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case. Most people didn't recommend it to me saying either it's too big, too much airflow, don't need that many fans, not worth the money, lights are ugly (lol what?!) - blah blah blah. Others recommended it with the only con as the price <- which was true. Excellent case, tons of room, lots of air flow and keeps your machine running cool if you clean the front dusters every week or two weeks (keeps your drivers at a very cool level) and they're super easy to clean. If you go with another case just make sure you got a fan in the front and easy to clean, not a nightmare to take down and clean (shut the computer off to clean it, DF-85 = no need to do that). Fan from above and fan from behind (duh!). The fan from the side is just extra if you want it.

Well, most of this is based on what you wanted or my preference. Wait and see if others can come up with something that would suit your needs.


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Offline vuzedome

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 09:09:31 AM »
You have plenty of options with that budget.
But if you're going for a i7, you'll have to plan more than just pick and pay.
CPU, i7 3820 will be a good start, since you're asking for options here I doubt you'll be overclocking, hell the 2011s all pack a huge punch on stock.
Motherboard, the ASUS P9X79 Pro and above will have enough PCI-E slots for you to do crazy things.
If you like orange, Gigabyte X79-UD7 is perfect for you, LOL.
Not everyone has easy access to a HT Omega retailer, I sure as hell won't order online for something that I'm going to drop a wad of cash on. ASUS Xonar D2X or Creative XFI Titanium PRO Audio, both around the same price.
A 800W beasty from Corsair, your 8GB choice, and BD drive, well you won't have much left for your monitor and mouse+keyboard after buying just your "machine" parts.



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Offline Saras

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 10:51:07 AM »
To be honest, I'd give more consideration to the look.

After all, the monitor, the case, the keyboard, the mouse are not your CPU, GPU and the like, that are tucked deep in the dark. It's not the specs that matter there, it's the look and feel. I'd suggest going about the shops and looking at stuff you'd like to be in your room and choosing from that.

Online kitamesume

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 11:12:33 AM »
^ thats why i liked recommending compact CPU-units, they could pretty much tuck them nicely =O

as for the monitors, well you'll just have to find one thats up to the person's taste.

keyboard/mouse on the other hand, they can be pretty much anything since they aren't as show-cased as a monitor but the main problem is their features and reliability.

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Online mrdkreka

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 12:58:05 PM »
So reading what you guys wrote, i have updated my list. I haven't included prices yet, because newegg doesn't ship to Denmark, so I'm still searching for the components from different places.

Motherboard: I think I will go with ASUS Maximus V Gene LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard.

CPU: I don't think I need all the power of an i7, so I think I will go with the Intel Core i5 3570K (ivy bridge) instead.

GPU: Tajsujin, so are you saying I should run without a GPU until GTX 700 series or GTX 660/670 are released?

Ram: so Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 8GB CL9 (2x4) instead.

Power supply: Corsair Enthusiast Serie Modular TX750M

SDD: Corsair Force Series 3 CSSD-F60GB3A-BK 2.5" 60GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

HDD: Western Digital 1TB

CPU Cooling: I was thinking Thermaltake Contac 29 BP would be good enough

Optical Drive: buy a cheap dvd reader, and then buy a BD reader when they have dropped more in price

Sound card: I think i will go with ASUS Xonar DX/XD/A the HT | OMEGA eClaro 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card is a bit to expensive when I can't try it out myself.

Cabinet: looked a bit around and I quite like the design of Cooler Master 690 II Advanced

Screen:
I think the dell's IPS 27 are a bit to big and to high in price. So I'm thinking getting one of these two
Dell 24" UltraSharp U2412M IPS Panel or ASUS VS248H-P Black 24" 2ms HDMI LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 ASCR 50,000,000:1

Mouse and keyboard:
Since it can be hard to judge online, I will see if I can find some I'm happy with in a store.

@Vuzedome
Unfortunately I live in Denmark, so I can't really get access to HT Omega retailer
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Offline vuzedome

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 01:19:32 PM »
You're getting a full ATX PC case but instead opt for the midget micro-atx ASUS Gene?
Though nice choice going for a CM 690 II, the 690s are still by far the best Cooler Master has made and it still beats most of the competition in my opinion.
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Online mrdkreka

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 02:02:50 PM »
You're getting a full ATX PC case but instead opt for the midget micro-atx ASUS Gene?
Though nice choice going for a CM 690 II, the 690s are still by far the best Cooler Master has made and it still beats most of the competition in my opinion.
Not 100% sure what you mean, but are you saying I should choose another motherboard?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 02:08:50 PM by mrdkreka »
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Offline datora

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 03:20:23 PM »
.
You're getting a full ATX PC case but instead opt for the midget micro-atx ASUS Gene?
Not 100% sure what you mean, but are you saying I should choose another motherboard?

Because you are going with a small form factor mobo, you could consider a smaller case.  Or, conversely, you can look at larger mobos that have more expansion options/slots for future upgrades.

Your budget is very generous, although that's by U.S. newegg standards.  I realize Denmark/EU is a good bit more pricey ... but, still, $2000 US is substantial.

I'm gonna stay out of the Intel CPU/mobo recommends; others here know that far better than I.

But two things stand out to my eye.  1) because your budget is so generous, it's a fairly trivial cost to get a pair of 8 GB RAM for total 16 GB in two slots.  For one example of performance RAM that will take care of you for some years:

 - G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) F3-1600C9D-16GXM

I know newegg is out of reach for you, but reference the specs on that to see what value you could target.  A pair of RAM sticks can get slightly lower CAS timings than a set of four.  These particular sticks can be adjusted a bit more aggressively than others that are more budget.  It just means that you have, for the most part, tweaked your RAM toward the higher end of performance and it's unlikely to be your bottleneck on your system going into the future.  In this price range, you're doing about the best you can; spending a lot more money will only buy slightly better performance, which you don't need.

Slightly more budget lines that will probably also be everything you could really need:

 - G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) F3-1600C10D-16GAO

 - CORSAIR XMS3 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Model CMX16GX3M2A1600C11

Just likely you'll end up with very slightly lower timings for the applied voltage & no or limited overclock options ... things that don't sound like they'll affect you from what you've posted so far.


2) The SSD is pretty small.  A 60 GB is large enough for your OS.  We assume it's Win7, which will install between 20 GB and 25 GB and slowly bloat over the years up to about 30-ish GB.  After formatting a 60 GB, you'll have approx. 54 GB usable space ... so about 24 GB left over for apps & games that can best use SSD speeds.  Further, you generally want to keep about 8% - 10% of your SSD free or it can slow down quite a bit.  Still faster than a mechanical drive, but let's say for estimate that you really only have ~20 GB available space for apps.  Yes, I'm estimating aggressively, but really you're not gonna have more than about 5 GB more than I just listed ... so ...

Consider SSDs in the 120/128 GB range.  Right now, these are the best value for your money.  You can go with a 60 GB SSD that'll run you $80 to $100 on the low end, or you can look at 120 GB drives that go as low as $95 - $110 on the low end, up to about $140 - $160 for very superior brands, such as Crucial, Mushkin, Patriot, Intel, Samsung & Plextor.  I'd avoid OCZ, Kingston, ADATA, Corsair and some of the more off-name brands for right now ... they seem to have some fairly serious reliability issues that still have not been resolved, and they sell their stuff at low prices which sucks a lot of people in.

A couple examples:

Intel 520 Series Cherryville SSDSC2CW120A3K5 120GB SATA III MLC - a bit pricey.  I don't like the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) of 1,200,000 hours, especially for this price.  1.5 million and 2 million hours are better if you can find them .. however, Intel makes really damned reliable SSDs, so probably a decent bet for a 520 series (slight upgrade from their 320 budget line).  Uses Sandforce controller, which has been problematic ... however, the last four to six months it seems that most manufacturers have finally tracked down and solved the bugs in those.

Mushkin Enhanced Chronos MKNSSDCR90GB 90GB SATA III MLC - good price at $1 per GB, very reliable brand.  2 million hours MTBF, also a Sandforce controller.  You "should" be able to find something at $1 or slightly less per GB these days, even in the EU.

SAMSUNG 830 Series MZ-7PC064D/AM 64GB SATA III MLC - very pricey for the size.  However, a reliable model/series (830) w/ 1.5 million MTBF, using the Samsung proprietary controller, which has been excellent.  The 64 GB unformatted size here could make quite a bit of difference over a 60 GB if you're shaving it this close.

Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe MKNSSDCL120GB-DX 120GB SATA II MLC - Notice this is SATA II, not III.  For your needs, SATA II on an SSD may well be worth the compromise if the price and reliability numbers are good.  There's a lot going for this particular drive, especially if I found it for about $95 or $100 ... which it was on sale just recently.

And I'll stop with this one: Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 128GB SATA III MLC - I like it for the 128 instead of 120 unformatted size, and comes in under $1 per GB, barely.  But, have seen this on sale for $105, also.  I don't like the 1.2 million MTBF, but that's in comparison to others ... it's still substantial, and Crucial is one of the most reliable brands on the market at the moment.  Notice this one uses the Marvel controller.  It has had substantially fewer issues than the Sandforce.  Although, again, in recent months most of the Sandforce issues seem to have been addressed by most manufacturers, so it probably isn't such a big deal anymore.  Just pointing out, this is the other major controller option to keep an eye on.


And, I suppose 3) - the mechanical hard drive.  Try to avoid the WD Green drives, especially if you will install any apps on it .. which you almost assuredly will if you go with a 60/64 GB SSD.  Try to find an affordable WD Caviar Black.  And, if you happen to run across a good price/deal, no reason you can't install a notebook drive or two in your system.

So, if you happen to find a 640 GB or 750 GB WD Scorpio Black, or even two, at a good price break, you can certainly consider that option.  They will be lower power, run at lower temps, have about the same performance, and generally be much more reliable ... very especially if you have to install apps on it/them.  Your budget could allow you to maybe get an SSD, plus a WD Scorpio Black (maybe 320 or 500 GB) for additional apps + application work space (think: photoshop scratch drive) + some performance data storage, and then a 1 or 1.5 TB Green drive strictly for data storage.

Keep an eye out for the 1 TB F3 Spinpoint or the 2 TB F4 Spinpoint drives from Samsung.  If you see them at a good price break, they are quite reliable drives for mass data storage.


Again, I don't know what you'll face in the current EU market, so of course you have to adjust accordingly.  But, the approximate percentages in difference should hold.
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Offline krumm

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 03:56:10 PM »
This is all opinion, but if you are going to get a k series cpu I would stay with sandy bridge.  I've read that the ivy bridge runs hotter which may make it not overclock as well(I've done no research in this chips overclocking potential and can be wrong.  the new fabrication process could have also changed clock performance, and might be worth looking into.).  If you don't care about over clocking, I would get a non k version of the ivy bridge.

Intel drops features on there k version of chips that you may(or may not) want, like virtualization.

I don't overclock and use virtualization, so I am a little bias against the k versions.  If I was building a primary use computer right now I would look into the i7-3770 non k version.

Great case pick, it's one of my favorites, but you should get a full size mobo.  The baby boards seem like a waste since they cost just as much but have less expansion slots.

Offline vuzedome

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 04:35:34 PM »
Generous budget calls for larger motherboard.
You're getting a full ATX PC case but instead opt for the midget micro-atx ASUS Gene?
Though nice choice going for a CM 690 II, the 690s are still by far the best Cooler Master has made and it still beats most of the competition in my opinion.
Not 100% sure what you mean, but are you saying I should choose another motherboard?
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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2012, 07:26:57 PM »
Motherboard: I think I will go with ASUS Maximus V Gene LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard.

CPU: I don't think I need all the power of an i7, so I think I will go with the Intel Core i5 3570K (ivy bridge) instead.

GPU: Tajsujin, so are you saying I should run without a GPU until GTX 700 series or GTX 660/670 are released?

Ram: so Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 8GB CL9 (2x4) instead.

Power supply: Corsair Enthusiast Series Modular TX750M

SDD: Corsair Force Series 3 CSSD-F60GB3A-BK 2.5" 60GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

HDD: Western Digital 1TB

CPU Cooling: I was thinking Thermaltake Contac 29 BP would be good enough

Optical Drive: buy a cheap dvd reader, and then buy a BD reader when they have dropped more in price

Sound card: I think i will go with ASUS Xonar DX/XD/A the HT | OMEGA eClaro 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card is a bit to expensive when I can't try it out myself.

Cabinet: looked a bit around and I quite like the design of Cooler Master 690 II Advanced

Screen:
I think the dell's IPS 27 are a bit to big and to high in price. So I'm thinking getting one of these two
Dell 24" UltraSharp U2412M IPS Panel or ASUS VS248H-P Black 24" 2ms HDMI LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 ASCR 50,000,000:1

Mouse and keyboard:
Since it can be hard to judge online, I will see if I can find some I'm happy with in a store.
I just woke up so I'll convey as much as to what I have in my mind, at the moment:

Motherboard: Just do note there aren't a lot of expansion slots, thou they are still very impressive for graphic capabilities on that motherboard. However, it has the latest of many of the technology Asus could offer. Durable, higher life-span, etc. Video here. Watch the video and pick a different motherboard from ASUS if you want more expansion slots and better yet, to install a third party Sound Card.

CPU: That's still a good choice. Core i5 3570K can do a lot as well.

GPU: Ah, I forgot to mention. If you have another video card then yea stick that in until then. But since you don't, then you got several options. Either listen to an ATI/AMD experienced person - or read as much reviews about the 7000 series and pick whichever one you want. Or yes, wait a month or two until they release the GTX 660/670. Your motherboard has PCI Express 3.0 so you want to take full advantage of that feature. Also, just so you know the Ivy Bridge sports an internal video capability. So you can play those games you mentioned at med-level graphics until the new series comes out. It can be a good choice to wait things out and not rush it out.

Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K -- HD Graphics 4000 is something you don't want to overlook. Thou, I'd definitely invest 70 dollars more to go with the Core i7. More processing power, parallel threading, additional features over the Core i5. But that's your choice.

HDD: Even thou you went with WD Black Edition 1TB, I'd still go with the Hitachi 2TB. Hitachi has been developing good HDD's the past 2 years or so. It still sucks to see WD still that high up there ... ;/

PSU: Modular is always better. The option to choose between different cables is good to have. Less cables, more air flow and better cable management.

RAM: Stick to a single 8GB memory. The board takes up to 32 GB of memory. You don't know what you might do in the future. You might wanna stick in more memory. You did say you may upgrade in the future, right? Corsair is a good memory pick, too.

Case: Sounds good. I don't know how much it costs thou' but the reviews on it are really good. The case stats it's a Mid-Tower so it does fit the Maximus V Gene.

Sound Card: Do you have a link for ASUS Xonar DX/XD/A the HT?

Screen: Dell can also be another good choice. Be sure it has the connectors you are interested in (DVI/HDMI are important, obviously) and features LED.

--

SSD: As Datora said. You really might want to re-think your SSD investment. The 60 GB sounds all nice and dandy, but you might want to go up to 120GB for future expansions. Avoid all SATA II SSD's and stick to SATA III. I only recommend the Intel 520 Series Cherryville SSDSC2CW120A3K5 120GB SATA III MLC - and avoid the rest.

Corsair SSD SATA III choices. Whichever you pick would be a good choice. Cheap, reliable, durable and nice speed/features.

There's also another choice which most people now do is to get two different SSD. One specifically for OS-only and few high-end programs like PhotoShop. The other SSD is strictly for encoding or/and for gaming. So, in short. Get the 60GB one and order a 120GB. Whatever you do, don't make partitions on a single SSD. Not a good choice.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 08:17:54 PM by Tatsujin »


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Online mrdkreka

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2012, 11:41:39 PM »
@krumm
I have read the article, and what they tested it on was prototypes of ivy bridge that have changed since then, but I will take it into consideration.

@vuzedome
Not really that generous, considering everything is at least 25% more expensive than the price you pay in America

@Datora
How much difference would it make having 16gb over 8gb RAM? Anyway I tried to see if I could find the ones you posted, I mostly found them in (4X4) version, but I did find Corsair-16GB-DDR3-1600MHz (2x8)Vengean even thought it is a vengean version instead of XMS3


SSD: Was thinking just getting a 60gb one to start with, and if I feel like a need more, I would buy a second one of what you guys recommended.

HDD: I have read the error rate on HDD increase quite a lot when you get above the 1TB mark, so wouldn't it be better to get several HDD instead of a big one?
I can hear that I should probably avoid WD Green drive, but what about WD blue drive?
what effect will the lower buffer in scorpio black (16MB) have compared to caviar Black (64MB)?

GPU: the onboard gpu in Intel is quite good, but from what I can gather it performs at the level of my latop graphic card, which could use some improvement for running D3 beta and it was struggling with G2 beta. I will look into the 7000 series, to see if I can find a card that can be used.

CPU: If I did bump it up to i7, how much more power would that use compared to the i5?

screen: The Dell screen have all the feature it need, and it is most likely the one I will get.

Sound card it is pretty much the same as the ASUS Xonar DX you posted, but here is a link to the ASUS Xonar DX/XD/A one

Oh and specifications=specifikationer to see more about the component for the links I posted.

I will look into a bigger motherboard in the morning after I have gotten some sleep.
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Online kitamesume

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2012, 12:12:41 AM »
^
SSD : SSD 90-128GB has 1GB = 1$ ratio while the SSDs under 80GB has 1GB = 1.3-1.5$ ratio, in terms of that alone its not really worth it since the price difference is like 40-50$ for nearly twice the capacity?

HDD : it would be a good idea on going with multiple 1TB instead of a whole one, but one problem on these is the cluster of drives, and it'll need some space and more connectors to plug to, not to mention the overall heat and power consumption will be higher than a single larger drive.

GPU : if you're itching for a temporary GPU you can look up HD7770, not so heavy on the pocket and performs quite well.

CPU : you could assume about 20-30% performance increase from the i5 in terms of raw power, plus you wouldn't be needing to upgrade anytime soon since you're getting something with ample headroom. so the question here is that, is the 70-80$ premium worth the 2-3years extended life-expectancy of my unit?

RAM : 16GB vs 8GB isn't really noticeable in the daily usage, it's only noticeable once you use apps like photoshops and such that eats ram for breakfast.

sound card : im kind of against buying dedicated sound card, since buying one doesn't necessarily mean the quality of your sound system will improve a notch, now a day's onboards (ALC889, ALC892, ALC898) are top-notch and can output quite a clear sound.
one thing you should do before considering one is to clarify if your sound system can output the quality that the sound card will give, since if you got a crappy headphone for example it'll be a waste of money to opt for a sound card where buying a better headphone would result in a more profitable manner. oh and op-amps works too.

motherboard : the motherboard i linked on my list is pretty much feature packed and has quite a good money ratio to boot, might wanna look into asrocks specifically since they usually sell without overpricing their products.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 12:23:33 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline datora

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2012, 03:04:33 AM »
.
What kitamesume said about SSD, HDD and RAM.  Since we are generally not up to date on EU pricing & availability, all of our comments have been geared toward giving you a primer on features to look for so you can make a credible evaluation on your own as you run across options.

Tatsujin & I are gonna have to "agree to disagree" on the Corsair recommend.  It's not that they are horrible, but the complaint level on their failure is significantly higher than on other brands I steered you toward.  This is especially true if you go for their low-price budget models.  And, continuing to keep in mind that many SSD manufacturers have made very significant improvements in the tech that have started to show up in the last 4-6 months.  Thus, what Tatsujin said about getting newer, SATA III SSDs holds true: you should avoid getting anything manufactured during about last November or before.  Look to models introduced in 2012 and you'll be getting gen 1.5 of the tech, which is much more stable than (esp. budget) models from last year.


To add even more,

The Scorpio Black will have lower performance, but still have high reliability.  The slight loss of performance won't affect you since you are not attempting to build a bleeding-edge machine.  I only suggested it as one alternative to keep an open mind about as you investigate availability & prices.

Your idea of going with a 60 GB SSD has a consequence: you are very likely to run out of space on it and have to install some applications on your secondary HDD.  This is not a bad thing in and of itself, unless you are looking at green technology drives.  Their failure rates go up quickly when "misused."  Misuse is running applications off of them ... they are designed to write blocks of static data and read it back, but not to constantly erase & re-write and move data, and certainly not under demanding conditions such as editing of files and running apps.

This is part of what you've read about the large HDDs failing.  People get a monster 2 TB drive real cheap, and then proceed to install their OS on it.  Then they can't figure out why the drive fails.  It's not designed for that sort of intense, constant access.  Also, why the Black editions of WD are something of a gold standard among HDDs these days.  Nothing else comes close to performance & reliability ... for the price.  The Blue editions are almost indistinguishable from their Green editions; slightly better, but completely outclassed by the Black editions.

So, to avoid that trap, you make sure that drive is 1) robust enough & designed for performance (a WD Black, either Caviar or Scorpio is one excellent option) or 2) if you get a mass data storage drive (WD Green, for example), you make sure you don't install apps on it or use it as a working scratch disk for video editing or photoshop, etc.  Thus the suggestion I made: an SSD system disk for the OS + apps that require SSD performance, plus a 320 or 500 GB WD Black (Scorpio or Caviar) as the secondary HDD that you can install apps safely to, then the third HDD, which can be a 1 TB or 2 TB huge-ass mass data storage device ... THEN it can be the WD Green (or Samsung F4 or Hitachi) 2 TB class and be much safer & more reliable to use.

Many of the failure complaints you run across are more than a year old, and they are generally targeted at 1 TB and up drives, not to be confused with "over 1 TB."  Previously, the 320/500/640/750 GB platter configurations had hit a new performance/reliability index.  The jump to 1/1.5/2 TB architecture suffered serious growing pains.  In particular, Seagate had a horrendous product line out for nearly two years that vastly contributed to that general reputation.

Remember, most people having trouble aren't very tech literate.  They don't know what drive they have and very often are misusing it for its designed function.  For example, you don't stick a WD 2 TB Green in an external housing without ventilation and then torrent off of it 24/7 ... you will assuredly cook it, and I've seen a lot of tech illiterates that did exactly that.   Then the cries of anguish begin and Oh Noes!! teh terabad HDD corps haz raeped my monies and I R such t3h victemz!!!!  pity all my lost pr0nz!!!!!

The models we've been talking about in this topic have withstood the test of time; they are well-vetted and the most reliable models currently on the market.  It's not a 100% guarantee, but your odds are very excellent ... especially if you treat your system with respect and kindness.  You need to match the tech to the use.  If you want extreme reliability, then you need to increase your budget to consider server- and enterprise-level technology.


So, leads back to the recommendation of going with a 120/128 GB SSD.  You can put all your OS and games and apps on it and not be forced to put any on a secondary drive.  THEN your secondary drive is much safer as a green tech/data storage device because no apps will be installed on it.  Space would still be tight, but nothing like trying to manage a 60 GB drive; even a 90 GB SSD would be a vast improvement.

OR you can consider the 60 GB SSD sys drive and a 1 TB WD Black for a two-drive option on your build, and the WD Black is designed to run apps; Scorpio or Caviar won't matter to you, their performance is effectively identical for your situation so go with cheapest opportunity you run across.

If it was me and the budget you have, I would go for a three drive option: 128 GB SSD sys drive --> +320/500/640/750 GB WD Blck 2ndary app + performance data drive --> +2 TB mass data storage (Samsung F4 has done me justice to date, so I stand by them currently).

It would largely be price driven.  I would find out what was available and best price per gigabyte in each of those slots, structured on the brands & models discussed in this topic so far.


Getting back to RAM.  Your mobo supports and runs dual channel.  This is why you want two matched chips in the same memory bank ... your CPU uses them in parallel to nearly double RAM throughput.  A single 8 GB chip definitely is not using your mobo to its specification.  So, you can go with 2x 4 GB = 8 GB total RAM, which is completely adequate.  Get good stuff with low CAS timings; @1600, you should be able to find something that runs at 8-8-8-24, or even better.  If something is advertised as CAS 8, they usually refer to that first number & ignore the rest.  You might also find stuff running at 9-8-9-27 (for random example).  If the price is really good, then it's worth the compromise because you'll only see that difference in benchmarks & high-end games.

My previous lecture on RAM was geared toward setting you up so you don't have to worry about it again for the life of your rig.  If you go with 2x 4 GB, then you'll likely have to add another pair at some point, especially if you do image/video editing or run certain games.  By going with solid performing 2x 8 GB = 16 GB total sys RAM @1600, you'll be very unlikely to ever run short of RAM (for the lifetime of your rig), and you'll be using it at maximum performance in two slots.  By using 4 slots (a 4x 4 GB = 16 GB config), you lose some performance and efficiency.  Again, not much, but if you're using an SSD for your sys drive, then you don't want anything else being a bottleneck ... 4 sticks  of RAM at 10-11-10-29 timings would certainly hurt you a bit, especially two years down the road when apps & OS & upgrades start to expect more performance than we commonly imagine today.

When you are looking at mobos, if you find one you think is The One for you and it supports triple channel, then you can look at 3x 4 GB = 12 GB total sys RAM config.  That's "just in case," since I don't think you'll be looking at extreme performance mobos.


So, shorter answer: in the near term, and if you don't do image/video editing, and if you keep to mid-level games (however you personally define that) ... then the 2x 4 GB option is a fairly good one.  Because your budget is generous enough, I merely suggested a cheap upgrade option now so you never have to think about it again.  Your entire build can use quality components because you have a decent budget ... you don't have to cut corners anywhere, and you don't have to throw away stupid amounts of cash for bleeding edge tech because you just need a solid, stable build that will take care of modest needs for a few years.

Usually I have to try and recommend a build for $800 or under.  That's when you need some serious thinking about where to compromise.
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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2012, 07:55:37 AM »
(click to show/hide)

SSD: One thing to note about getting an SSD is that a larger capacity will bring with it better performance because of the way current SSD technology works.

HDD: If you are not using it as a boot disk (which you shouldn't be since you're getting an SSD), a Green drive is ideal. It could take a second or two for it to spin back up if you leave it idle for too long, but in the long run it saves power. Blue is okay but a Black or RE4 drive would be the best choices for boot disks if you must go HDD. I consider Blue to be their mid-grade.

GPU: If you want Intel's on-board, be sure to get Ivy Bridge, since that is their most significant performance boost over Sandy Bridge. Otherwise, aim for NVidia stuff (they're basically the premium, much like Intel is). All of the problems I've ever ran into with dedicated graphics cards were with AMD/ATI cards.

CPU: You'd have to look at benchmarks for actual numbers, but generally i7 is top-end mainstream, while i5 is mid-grade mainstream.

Online mrdkreka

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2012, 10:22:16 AM »
sound card : im kind of against buying dedicated sound card, since buying one doesn't necessarily mean the quality of your sound system will improve a notch, now a day's onboards (ALC889, ALC892, ALC898) are top-notch and can output quite a clear sound.
one thing you should do before considering one is to clarify if your sound system can output the quality that the sound card will give, since if you got a crappy headphone for example it'll be a waste of money to opt for a sound card where buying a better headphone would result in a more profitable manner. oh and op-amps works too.
Speaker: z623, the bass is a bit flat, and some frequency it doesn't do well, so I don't think my speaker would benefit that much
Headphones: Audio-Technica ATH-M50, I don't have anything define to complain about here, so I assume it will get most benefit out of a sound card.

SSD changed it to a Crucial M4 128 GB SSD

HDD Western Digital 750 GB Scorpio Black (WD7500BPKT), I have a lot of music I listen to and so on, so I will need a HDD that can handle getting a lot of read and write on it.

MOBO So if I went with the ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard you recommended, will I be able to add a soundcard, or won't that be necessary?

RAM would CL9 ( 9-9-9-24 ) make it a bottleneck? I'm leaning most too 2x4, since most of the 2x8 have CL10, and if they have below that the price increase quite a lot, so I think it is better to upgrade to more, when I start needing it.

GPU: I have considered to get a ati/amd one, but I have had quite a lot of problems with them in there mobile version( I think around 50 crash caused by the gpu), so I will look to see if I can find a GTX instead.
Is there a site that show a list of graphic cards, and what they are capable of running? I know a site for mobile graphic cards, but that doesn't really help much here.

CPU: still thinking if I should bump it op to i7, I will look a bit more into it.

Edit:
Looked around for a GPU and found ASUS ENGTX560 Ti DCII/2DI/1GD5 (90-C1CQ90-L0UAY0YZ) to be very good for its performance to price ratio
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 11:11:25 AM by mrdkreka »
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Offline vuzedome

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2012, 11:15:09 AM »
Well your initial choice was already capable of adding in a PCI-E sound card.
The ASRock of your definitely looks better than the ASUS Gene, never liked the ASUS theme-based mobo lineup.
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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Building a desktop
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2012, 11:25:16 AM »
I find it interesting that your HDD of choice is a Scorpio. That's WD's line of 2.5"/laptop drives, isn't it? Any reason why you're not getting a Caviar (i.e. 3.5"/desktop)?

You can add a sound card to pretty much any board AFAIK. I've always found onboard sound to be good enough for my needs - IMO sound cards are largely for audiophiles, or multi-channel sound if the board doesn't already support that. I really doubt that any issues you're having with your audio are caused by your lack of a sound card...

CL9 is pretty standard for DDR3. If you're getting large RAM sticks, you can't go much lower. The lowest latency you can get in DDR3 is CL6, only available in 2GB (or maybe 1GB) sticks, and the price per GB compared to the performance increase (which is pretty much negligible for all users that are not enthusiasts/benchmarkers) is not worth it. You mentioned most 2x8 have CL10, but I recall seeing one of the cheapest 4x8 kits being CL9 (G.Skill Ares series), though granted the clock speed is not very high. That brings up the point that you should also look at clock speed when comparing RAM.
TL;DR - your RAM should not be a bottleneck.

For GPU comparisons I mostly look at Wikipedia (lol). If you find a cool site, let me know, I'd like to see it too. If I'm not mistaken, the card you picked out is one generation behind, but that's probably not a problem, right?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 11:29:35 AM by Freedom Kira »