Author Topic: HDD Regen and reallocated sectors (Read 6816 times)

Sakura90 · « **on:** May 14, 2012, 03:59:00 AM »

Hi, I seem to have bad luck with drives.... =/

Yesterday I was copying some files (60 GB) from my system drive, a 500GB WD Blue, to one of the backups. Somewhere along the process transfer speeds drop to 20, 15 and 5 MB/s and then everything freezes, the HDD activity led remaining fully lit. I could barely reach the start menu, so I pushed the reset button

Upon rebooting I check the SMART and found this:

How nice. I don't know if those begin popping up in the past or if they appeared all together when that happened. Still, everything on the disk seems to be intact, no errors till now and no new "reallocated" sectors (almost 36 hours of non-stop operation). I know, you'll blame my PSU, but I have several HDDs attached to it (and are older than the system drive) and they never had any prob. Including the one I was transferring the files to when the "freeze" happened, a Samsung HD204UI.

The question is, would it be "safe" to have HDD Regenerator to "fix" the sectors? (does it move the reallocation count back to 0?). And then a full format. I'm not seeing any "offline uncorrectable" for now and no data appears to be lost/damaged. All the files that were being read during the "freeze" are intact (by checksums) and the drive operates now at full speed.

Or just head to RMA directly? Would this warrant a direct replacement? But then I would need to get a new HDD for the meantime (and sell the new drive if I get a replacement), losing money in the process <_< (that due to my useless currency, is almost 5 times what costs you in USD) $:-\$

Not that I'm storing here any vital information, just the downloads of the moment

. Also what intrigues me is what could had lead to all those reallocations. The PSU and voltages are fine (it's a CoolerMaster EPP 500w with an Athlon II 450, everything else is onboard), and the rest of my disks, which are older, never had any crappy sectors <_<

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:19:28 AM »

Did you mean to include a screenshot?

kitamesume · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:12:21 AM »

why do you keep mentioning "its not the power" so many times?

its obviously a bad drive since the other HDDs, even older, are still working fine. RMA or get something else.

vuzedome · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2012, 07:12:55 AM »

HDD dying, don't be sad, this happens.
Speaking of hard drives, read/write errors, is it something to be worried about?

nstgc · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2012, 03:40:56 PM »

Quote from: vuzedome on May 14, 2012, 07:12:55 AM

HDD dying, don't be sad, this happens.
Speaking of hard drives, read/write errors, is it something to be worried about?

I sure hope not. All my hard drives seem to have high counts of both, especially my WD VelociRaptor (Something like 300 read/write errors per second). Seems to work fine thought.

tahawy4242 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:08:50 PM »

vuzedome · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2012, 06:37:23 PM »

300? Wow.
Well yours is made for speed so maybe it's how it works..... I have no clue really.
On SMART my Samsung has 125, must've been from heavy torrenting I guess.

AnimeJanai · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2012, 08:10:10 PM »

In my case, external hard drives don't sit on the same table as the user. That's because small "earthquakes" occur when users touch the table or move the mouse. You don't notice it, but the heads floating above the hard drive platters notice it. After all the times you've shaken the hard drives and caused the heads to slap the platter surface, you might get some errors.

A lot of people forget that they it is easy to vibrate or shake an external drive while the heads are moving. It doesn't have the benefit of sitting inside the huge mass of a desktop case that dampens out even the shaking of someone walking by (if your flooring is not on a concrete slab).

Pentium100 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2012, 09:16:37 PM »

Quote from: Sakura90 on May 14, 2012, 03:59:00 AM

The question is, would it be "safe" to have HDD Regenerator to "fix" the sectors? (does it move the reallocation count back to 0?). And then a full format.

HDD Regenerator will not reduce the reallocated sector count - the drive will not let it, once a sector is reallocated, that's it. HDD Regenerator may be able to "fix" a bad sector, but only that, which was not reallocated (the drive produces an error when you try to read it). However, it is safer to let the drive reallocate the sector.

Sakura90 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2012, 05:06:59 PM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on May 14, 2012, 04:19:28 AM

Did you mean to include a screenshot?

Yup :p

Quote from: kitamesume on May 14, 2012, 07:12:21 AM

why do you keep mentioning "its not the power" so many times?

its obviously a bad drive since the other HDDs, even older, are still working fine. RMA or get something else.

Oh, because I participate in a local hardware forum... where all the causes for bad things seems to be always the PSU, or so they keep posting

So when you ask something you have to state beforehand that your PSU is perfectly fine

Well, I've already filled the RMA form at WD site. Official WD RMA is handled here by a 3rd party, that from the net side of things at least, looks kinda shady. They don't even have a website for their local activities, and WD doesn't even provide a phone number. I had to get the number from a forum member that uses the RMA regularly for resellers (I need the number to find out when they work, so I can take them drives). At least for him he always got new ones. Let's see how I do with them... from the "end user" side.

Still, I have to find the plastic bubble wrapping, no one seems to sell that crap in small quantities (they sell rolls of 50-100m, lol). And I need a "perfect" packaging as WD says, even if I am to take the drives to the RMA "office" personally <_< (they then send the new ones with inside the same package as I been told... lazy rats, bothering the end user to find that shit, it's stuff that only companies or resellers seem to buy).

Quote from: vuzedome on May 14, 2012, 07:12:55 AM

HDD dying, don't be sad, this happens.
Speaking of hard drives, read/write errors, is it something to be worried about?

My Samsung HD204UI drives have 2 or 3 of those (appeared some time and never again). One drive with 2-3 read errors, and the other with 2-3 write ones :p. No idea what they mean precisely. The drive failed to read/write once but then tried again and it was successful? As I never got any corrupted data, it seems to me that's a "failed once, passed on the 2nd try" kind of error. Ofc, having a lot regularly should mean something bad... even if it then tries and succeeds, so no corrupted data shows up, it'll slow the drive and I wouldn't trust it at all...

Quote from: AnimeJanai on May 19, 2012, 08:10:10 PM

In my case, external hard drives don't sit on the same table as the user. That's because small "earthquakes" occur when users touch the table or move the mouse. You don't notice it, but the heads floating above the hard drive platters notice it. After all the times you've shaken the hard drives and caused the heads to slap the platter surface, you might get some errors.

As is mine. The drives dock sits on an old TV table, that I made even putting a magazine under one of it's stands (or "feet"), as it was quite unstable. Now it's rock solid :3

Quote from: Pentium100 on May 20, 2012, 09:16:37 PM

Quote from: Sakura90 on May 14, 2012, 03:59:00 AM
The question is, would it be "safe" to have HDD Regenerator to "fix" the sectors? (does it move the reallocation count back to 0?). And then a full format.

HDD Regenerator will not reduce the reallocated sector count - the drive will not let it, once a sector is reallocated, that's it. HDD Regenerator may be able to "fix" a bad sector, but only that, which was not reallocated (the drive produces an error when you try to read it). However, it is safer to let the drive reallocate the sector.

Interesting. Aside the drive I mentioned above, I had a WD Green (EADS) 1.5TB that would pop up "pending" sectors when used regularly. It happened once, I did it a full format and the disappeared. But with the daily use, the same happened again, this time though, some "reallocated sectors" showed up too. I heard somewhere about the "magic" of HDD Regen and I gave it a try. Poof, the drive became perfect again. Not even a scratch. So back to normal.

Now, the other day I checked and it has 8 "offline uncorrectable", 3 reallocated and some pending. So I decided to take it to RMA together with the other drive (fucking WD stupid drives

). At least I have a few months of the 3 year warranty.

I wiped both drives with the DoD method (the 7 pass one, don't wanna let my... "shady" stuff brought to light

). The 500gb Blue bad sectors (both pending, reallocated and offline) sky rocketed, but the Green one... as with HDD Regen it was back all to 0, except for the 8 offline sectors $:-\$

Weird...

Pentium100 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:44:32 PM »

Quote from: Sakura90 on May 25, 2012, 05:06:59 PM

Interesting. Aside the drive I mentioned above, I had a WD Green (EADS) 1.5TB that would pop up "pending" sectors when used regularly. It happened once, I did it a full format and the disappeared.

Pending sector - this sector was not read correctly the last time, it will be remapped on write, unless it is read correctly before that.
Offline uncorrectable - this sector was not read correctly the last time the drive did an offline test (though some drives start testing themselves if left idle long enough), it will be remapped on write.

Quote

(fucking WD stupid drives ).

And this is after I bought a WD RE4 (WD1003FBYX) drive. I was a Seagate fan previously, but read that their current drives (both consumer and enterprise grade) are unreliable, so I bought the RE4 as it had good reviews, I hope I did not make a mistake.

kitamesume · « **Reply #11 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:53:24 PM »

no HDD is reliable now a days, they practically have a 50% chance on failing on you but not on a specific date, some can be DOA while others can last you a year before it fails. pretty much depends on real life luck plus not to get con-ed by sellers branding refurbished as brandnew(i've seen it happen, alot).

vuzedome · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2012, 12:21:35 AM »

If those numbers keep increasing frequently then it's time to move everything out of there.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2012, 04:51:49 AM »

Quote from: kitamesume on May 25, 2012, 08:53:24 PM

no HDD is reliable now a days, they practically have a 50% chance on failing on you but not on a specific date, some can be DOA while others can last you a year before it fails. pretty much depends on real life luck plus not to get con-ed by sellers branding refurbished as brandnew(i've seen it happen, alot).

Every HDD has a 100% chance of failing given infinite time. Your 50% makes no sense. No HDD will last forever.

Quote from: Pentium100 on May 25, 2012, 08:44:32 PM

And this is after I bought a WD RE4 (WD1003FBYX) drive. I was a Seagate fan previously, but read that their current drives (both consumer and enterprise grade) are unreliable, so I bought the RE4 as it had good reviews, I hope I did not make a mistake.

I've heard very good things about their RE4 drives. Isn't that WD's division of enterprise-grade high-quality drives? And don't they come with some ridiculously long warranty period?

Pentium100 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2012, 05:05:56 AM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on May 26, 2012, 04:51:49 AM

I've heard very good things about their RE4 drives. Isn't that WD's division of enterprise-grade high-quality drives? And don't they come with some ridiculously long warranty period?

Yes, RE4 are enterprise-grade drives - supposedly more reliable (and mores suitable for RAID, though I do not have an array), designed for 24/7 operation and cost 1.5 - 2x as much (I paid 115EUR for a 1TB drive) compared to consumer grade. The warranty is 5 years.

As I do not like downtime, I'd rather pay more at once for a more reliable component than more over time as I'm replacing the cheaper components often.

kitamesume · « **Reply #15 on:** May 26, 2012, 11:26:19 AM »

the 50% chance of fail i meant is that it'll fail sooner than expected, should have been obvious.

vuzedome · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2012, 02:53:35 PM »

Well if you're looking for a hard drive that's made for heavy torrenting, look at the WD green CCTV drives.
Actually I'm not too sure myself but the constant you get for 24/7 CCTV recording should also meant the same with torrents.
Oops, my bad, we're talking about the same thing I guess.

Bob2004 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2012, 03:02:27 PM »

Quote from: vuzedome on May 26, 2012, 02:53:35 PM

Well if you're looking for a hard drive that's made for heavy torrenting, look at the WD green CCTV drives.
Actually I'm not too sure myself but the constant you get for 24/7 CCTV recording should also meant the same with torrents.
Oops, my bad, we're talking about the same thing I guess.

I don't think you are talking about the same drives. The CCTV-optimised ones are the WD AV-G drives (I have a 1.5TB one myself), and they're generally priced somewhere between the Caviar Green and the Caviar Blue drives. They're actually just WD Green drives with a few changes made to them, as far as I can tell, but I don't know what those changes are so I cdon't know how much of an improvement they are.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #18 on:** May 27, 2012, 06:18:45 AM »

Quote from: kitamesume on May 26, 2012, 11:26:19 AM

the 50% chance of fail i meant is that it'll fail sooner than expected, should have been obvious.

You specifically said "but not on a specific date." That means the same thing as "whenever," which in turn means "given infinite time."

There is no expected amount of time for a drive to fail, unless you mean the MTTF. Even then, there is absolutely no correlation between your original post and "sooner than expected." After all, "not on a specific date" can mean it can fail sooner than expected or later than expected, because heck, it's not on a specific date.

v I meant exactly what I said. Every drive will fail given infinite time. Any drive that has not failed yet will eventually fail. It's that simple. Stop trying to divert my attention elsewhere - you said there's a 50% chance of failure at no specified date, and that implies that half of the drives ever manufactured will never fail.

kitamesume · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2012, 07:05:20 AM »

so you're saying theres no difference between "failed" and "worn out"?

im saying "failed" mind you and not "worn out".

edit: so your 100% chance of failing should have been, "everything has a wear out date".