Author Topic: Do They Really Not Make Them Like They Used To? (Read 3253 times)

Saras · « **Reply #40 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:05:01 PM »

Quote from: nstgc on June 12, 2012, 07:59:15 PM

Quote from: Ashall on June 12, 2012, 07:26:46 PM
Hmm it seems like we all want them to reinvent the wheel or completely regurgitate the classics. It's the same for books and movies now as well. (I don't know about television since I don't watch it). It's hard to make something new. And even harder to get people to like what is new. An example would be Okami, if any of you played it, you also probably know it was a commercial disaster when it was first released despite being an amazing game.

Its not that I want them to simply throw out the same games that they were "bakc-in-the-day", its just that that is the only way I can foresee any decent RPGs being made. Solving the key problems would be enough (games lack spirit, insult my intelligence, and and aren't as rewarding), but even then, I'm not a fan of these new breeds of action RPGs. The hack and slash seen in NWN is fine, so long as the battle remains tactics oriented, as opposed to beating shit up. I want new games, but I also realize that with this new generation of gamers, that won't happen in the RPG market. That's why I just want them to remake old games.

You should give the indie market a go. Some of the stuff there is well within Nintendo/Battletoads level of difficulty.

nstgc · « **Reply #41 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:10:17 PM »

Quote from: Saras on June 12, 2012, 08:05:01 PM

Quote from: nstgc on June 12, 2012, 07:59:15 PM
Quote from: Ashall on June 12, 2012, 07:26:46 PM
Hmm it seems like we all want them to reinvent the wheel or completely regurgitate the classics. It's the same for books and movies now as well. (I don't know about television since I don't watch it). It's hard to make something new. And even harder to get people to like what is new. An example would be Okami, if any of you played it, you also probably know it was a commercial disaster when it was first released despite being an amazing game.

Its not that I want them to simply throw out the same games that they were "bakc-in-the-day", its just that that is the only way I can foresee any decent RPGs being made. Solving the key problems would be enough (games lack spirit, insult my intelligence, and and aren't as rewarding), but even then, I'm not a fan of these new breeds of action RPGs. The hack and slash seen in NWN is fine, so long as the battle remains tactics oriented, as opposed to beating shit up. I want new games, but I also realize that with this new generation of gamers, that won't happen in the RPG market. That's why I just want them to remake old games.

You should give the indie market a go. Some of the stuff there is well within Nintendo/Battletoads level of difficulty.

Oh I do. I mostly buy indie games now. If you read my post a bit ago you'll see that I explicitly exclude indie games, and mention how indie games, with digital distribution, are maturing into something major.

Yeah, indie games are good. I am sad when they fail though. Five Pillar, the indie company that made Winter Voices, went bankrupt before they finished their game series. Additionally they were planning an MMORPG. I would have loved to have seen what they could have done. Winter's voices felt fresh, and definitely was a challenge. I just recently purchased the Humble V bundle even though I owned all those games (save for Bastion). The game I'm most looking forward too (well after ME3...shame on me) is Endless Space.

Ashall · « **Reply #42 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:17:29 PM »

Kids these days don't seem to want to play RPGs anymore. It's all about shooters/racing/sports and their endless clones. At the end of the day it's all about the dollar bill. And the big companies are all over that.

Also I'll be honest I don't like Indie games. Maybe I have bad taste but I don't find them enjoyable. Of course I've only played a handful so what do I know. Maybe I'll look into it again some time.

AceHigh · « **Reply #43 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:18:20 PM »

Quote from: nstgc on June 12, 2012, 07:59:15 PM

[edit] I just glanced through Steam and it doesn't look like any major companies have actually even made a real RPG in at least 2 years.

You missed Risen 2? It's right there for sale.

nstgc · « **Reply #44 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:26:13 PM »

Quote from: Ashall on June 12, 2012, 08:17:29 PM

Kids these days don't seem to want to play RPGs anymore. It's all about shooters/racing/sports and their endless clones. At the end of the day it's all about the dollar bill. And the big companies are all over that.

Also I'll be honest I don't like Indie games. Maybe I have bad taste but I don't find them enjoyable. Of course I've only played a handful so what do I know. Maybe I'll look into it again some time.

They do tend to lack polish and the graphics typically suck.

Quote from: AceHigh on June 12, 2012, 08:18:20 PM

Quote from: nstgc on June 12, 2012, 07:59:15 PM
[edit] I just glanced through Steam and it doesn't look like any major companies have actually even made a real RPG in at least 2 years.

You missed Risen 2? It's right there for sale.

I also said I was only looking quickly. Even still the number of RPGs being put out isn't what it use to be. Quality isn't the only issue.

surdumil · « **Reply #45 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:31:10 PM »

Quote from: SirSkyRider on June 12, 2012, 03:44:02 PM

@surdumil: Try Daedelic's games, they're jolly good p'n'c-adventures.

Thanks SirSkyRider. They look most intriguing.
I actually have one of their games, "The Whispered World", that I thought was very good and quite unusual. I never followed up on Daedelic, though. They have some very interesting titles.

SirSkyRider · « **Reply #46 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:36:49 PM »

Quote from: AceHigh on June 12, 2012, 04:17:34 PM

Those who are smart use free advertising thanks to a viral marketing possibilities of the internet and social sites. That is why we see the indie scene getting stronger after all.

Though we could also argue a lot about the indie scene since there are quite a few protagonists who see themselves as an artist before seeing themselves as a game maker. Don't get me wrong, I love indie games but I think this matter needs to be mentioned here...

nstgc · « **Reply #47 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:40:53 PM »

Oh, no one has mentioned the influence of multiplayer on games. I think that's another major contributor to what we see as the fall of the gaming industry. You don't need a decent story or gameplay if you have a multiplayer feature. Isn't that what people do in CoD and such...shoot each other and tea bag?

Quote from: SirSkyRider on June 12, 2012, 08:36:49 PM

Quote from: AceHigh on June 12, 2012, 04:17:34 PM
Those who are smart use free advertising thanks to a viral marketing possibilities of the internet and social sites. That is why we see the indie scene getting stronger after all.

Though we could also argue a lot about the indie scene since there are quite a few protagonists who see themselves as an artist before seeing themselves as a game maker. Don't get me wrong, I love indie games but I think this matter needs to be mentioned here...

Like Tale of Tales? Ever "play" their Graveyard game? Apparently they make a lot of their money from selling stuff to art museums. This does lead to some games that aren't fun to play, but their niche games. One thing that I think would make the industry better (at least for us gamers) would be niche games.

AceHigh · « **Reply #48 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:52:01 PM »

Quote from: SirSkyRider on June 12, 2012, 08:36:49 PM

Though we could also argue a lot about the indie scene since there are quite a few protagonists who see themselves as an artist before seeing themselves as a game maker. Don't get me wrong, I love indie games but I think this matter needs to be mentioned here...

Well a game maker is a partially artist and partially a technician and partially an entertainer (or in most cases, a team has different individuals for those roles)

nstgc · « **Reply #49 on:** June 12, 2012, 09:01:16 PM »

I think what SirSky is referring to is the tendency for some indie developers to be all artist, or at least 95%. You're right, a developer needs to be part artist or the games come out with out any soul to them and they end up like so many games we have all been bitching about, but there is a point when its too much.

SirSkyRider · « **Reply #50 on:** June 12, 2012, 09:07:17 PM »

Yup, you got it.

I strongly press for the idea of video games being accepted as a form of art, but not to the point where the artsyness completely consumes everything else. Whilst those games may be nice to have as well, they offer very little for long-time players.

(click to show/hide)

nstgc · « **Reply #51 on:** June 12, 2012, 09:10:52 PM »

I think we should start another thread to discuss artsy games.

[edit] Done

logos · « **Reply #52 on:** June 13, 2012, 04:09:46 AM »

So I really want to make this post full of cynical insults....but I will refrain as much as I can...

When it comes to memories people generally stick to the good, not the bad. My first game system was a nintendo, you know, the grey one that was like 8-bit, I can honestly say that of the dozens of games I played on it none of them were great and most of them were less than mediocre. My next console was a sega genesis, when I had it my and my brother's would regularly rent games from the local video store and after a few years of that I think it's safe to say we played hundred if not thousands of different games a week at a time, again, I remember only a handful of games I really liked, and a mass of mediocre mostly boring games that we didnt even bother finishing. This has not changed, and will never change.

Any time this subject comes up I hear shit like "x bad game that just came out was noway near as good as 'insert classic well thought of game here'" or my favorite "new games are shit, except for this title, or this title, or this entire genre..."

Some new games are fucking awesome, just like some old games were also fucking awesome. Lumping all "new" games and all "old" games into 2 categories and comparing them is just stupid...which I guess means I think this whole thread is stupid...yeah that sounds about right
/thread

Ashall · « **Reply #53 on:** June 13, 2012, 06:19:21 AM »

Hmm I think older people are allowed to rant about the good ol' days. And people already know that.

Sorry to ruin your "victory" post but I was enjoying bsing about new vs old. This was fun until you had to come along.

1000mAh · « **Reply #54 on:** June 13, 2012, 07:30:06 AM »

Logos, well true, peopletend to remember only the best, and for 8-bit nintendo, Super mario bros was really good.

Quote from: logos on June 13, 2012, 04:09:46 AM

Any time this subject comes up I hear shit like "x bad game that just came out was noway near as good as 'insert classic well thought of game here'" or my favorite "new games are shit, except for this title, or this title, or this entire genre..."

and I think they are talking more bout the story line etc. stuff of the games and that how they repeat the one awesome thing from 1 old game on nearly all of the new games aand Also about that how the teams they use are too big.

nstgc · « **Reply #55 on:** June 13, 2012, 01:41:26 PM »

I think most of us have acknowledged that time filters out the shit, but as I said in my post a bit ago, I'm comparing the top games of today to the top games of yesteryears. Also, Logos, are you going to deny that games are dumbed down and have stories that lame?

vicious796 · « **Reply #56 on:** June 13, 2012, 02:17:15 PM »

Ignore the trolling aspects as best you can, folks. They do tend to pop up every now and then.

To address the actual material of the post - I'm yet to see any sound argument that any genre, aside from shooters, has gotten better with age. The stories of RPGs today - you know, the core part of the RPG - are more often awful than not. Puzzle games have evolved from tricky to bloated, requiring the management of 15 tools to be "hard" instead of just 4-6.

The sense of complex = difficult has taken some genres while the notion that simple = sales has taken others. As I said in the OP, I've had more fun playing Chrono Cross again then I have had playing any other RPG in recent memory. More than Dragon Age, the last couple of Final Fantasies - hell, borderline more fun than Skyrim.

Now, that may have taken it too far (Skyrim is a great game) but still, only 1 game in the last 13 years outdoes 1 game that wasn't even that popular?

1000mAh · « **Reply #57 on:** June 13, 2012, 02:29:46 PM »

^ yeah, Skyrim is ratehr good, but mostly 'cuz it is so free game, you can basicly, do whatever you wany XD
+ It has decent story. xD

xShadow · « **Reply #58 on:** June 13, 2012, 04:18:48 PM »

I actually don't think shooters have necessarily gotten better with time. Personally I find the whole "aim and shoot" thing kind of annoying. I prefer arcade-style shooters, like Wolfenstein ET (which I still play every now and then). Really, it's just better graphics and then different ways of shooting. It's not necessarily better. It is probably evolved.

What I dislike most, though, is how series tend to go. Here's my little rant about that; I made it a long time ago, and just put it in a notepad file for later use (I have a bunch of those little memos floating around my computer). I think it was actually meant for another topic, so some material isn't relevant:

(click to show/hide)

While I do think a lot of games today are just like "Hey, let's make really good graphics and generic gameplay and put some violence in it, and call it an amazing game", that series business is what annoys me more.

Also, if you guys haven't noticed, there is a serious influx of MMORPGs. Like seriously, after seeing all of those F2P companies like Nexon making big money while practically ripping their customers off, I'm seeing more and more series start to go over to it.

What's worse is that a lot of them have pretty generic mechanics. I haven't played anything recently that made me go "oh man, this is actually cool." All of them just reuse generic mechanics.

I don't necessarily think that games are getting dumbed down, but series cashing and MMORPGization is hurting the industry.

Ashall · « **Reply #59 on:** June 13, 2012, 05:40:42 PM »

^ Like I said before maybe I have bad taste but I find MMORPGs unbearable to play. It's so repetitive and boring. I mean there are tons of better ways to just veg out than play them imo. Also most of the players are creepy and/or dicks. Plus I'm a cheapskate and don't like paying monthly.

@vicious - I totally feel that. I'm currently replaying Star Ocean II for the nth time as well as Chrono Trigger. There are just not many games today you can replay and still get captured by the story and world. I mean sure there are "trophies" and "achievements" now but most of those are a serious chore not even worth the time to get. I wish I could disable trophies because it makes me focus on getting them and not focusing on the game itself really. Maybe that's just me.

I also don't find most WRPGs fun. It just seems like freedom and loot > story, characters, and music. Meh. Just can't get into them like everyone else.