Author Topic: Western Digital or Seagate (Read 13124 times)

Dhruv · « **Reply #60 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:35:26 AM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on July 18, 2012, 10:43:25 PM

A NAS unit is essentially a computer that sits connected to your network and only ever provides storage for files over the network. You could think of it as a localized cloud service that you manage yourself.

A NAS unit can be as simple as an external (containing any number of disks, though most people assume that when someone says "NAS" they mean a unit with 4+ disks) connected by Ethernet, or you can set up a low-power computer to act as a NAS and perform other duties as well (small web server, torrent, etc.). Pretty much any computer can act like a NAS if you set it up to do so.

If you really don't want to go through the hassle of building your own mini machine (it's actually very easy but I won't pressure you), you should definitely take a look at Drobo. That's some pretty cool stuff there. It's a tad expensive but it's very impressive how it works.

By the way, if you RAID 5 or 6 your disks, 6x2TB will give you more space than 4x3TB, though the 6x2TB array will be a bit more prone to failure as well if 2TB and 3TB disks have the same failure rates. It's generally not recommended that you create a giant disk by just combining all the disk space together (either "RAID" 0 or JBOD) because you can lose all your data if you lose just one disk out of the set.

I don't have any kind of skill in the tech. dept. so even if you pressure me it won't be of much use

I will consider a NAS server if it is cheaper to me than the Cost of HDD bought separately of the same capacity...(i.e. least cost per TB)
but i do realize that a little bit over it would be obvious since it is a computer in itself...
but i don't have multiple computers.. just one which i am using atm... so how productive can NAS be in my case..

nstgc · « **Reply #61 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:42:43 AM »

I've been meaning to turn an old computer of mine into a NAS (by putting a bunch of HDDs in it), but I've never gotten around to it. I only have the one computer, but it would be nice as a sort of external hardrive.

Dhruv · « **Reply #62 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:21:16 AM »

Quote from: nstgc on July 19, 2012, 02:42:43 AM

I've been meaning to turn an old computer of mine into a NAS (by putting a bunch of HDDs in it), but I've never gotten around to it. I only have the one computer, but it would be nice as a sort of external hardrive.

So what do you say?
HDD or NAS? For single computers that is.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #63 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:06:59 AM »

The number of computers you use is not really relevant to which one is more useful. Sure, a NAS unit serving multiple computers would be far better than an external disk, due simply to the fact that the files are made available to everyone at the same time, but that should not be the defining factor.

The NAS will be more expensive than an external, period. When you build a NAS, you are buying HDDs to put into an empty system, and you are buying the empty system, which consists either of computer parts or a prebuilt NAS unit. Most prebuilt NAS units are not worth it for the price, so I don't even consider them. However, when you build a NAS, what you are paying for is more advanced handling of your data and more reliability. By setting up a NAS unit, you would typically also build a software layer that combines your disks together, so you see a single disk (my 6 disk array shows up as a single 13.7TB disk). You would also typically set up a RAID volume as this software layer, which allows your data to survive if one or more disks fail in your collection of disks (depends on which RAID level you pick). When you have a bunch of externals, if you lose a disk you will lose all the data on that disk. Note this does not have to be done in software - there exist hardware to do the same thing, and many Intel-based motherboards have built-in RAID capability. If you have a board without onboard RAID, a good RAID card costs hundreds, while a simple RAID card can cost under $50.

So, in the end, a NAS and an external HDD perform the same tasks but the extra benefits of the NAS kind of put it into a different category.

I mentioned Drobo in my last post but it doesn't look like you looked it up. You really should check it out.

kitamesume · « **Reply #64 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:52:54 AM »

Quote from: rostheferret on July 18, 2012, 10:04:20 PM

Quote from: kitamesume on July 18, 2012, 04:59:15 PM
(click to show/hide)
[$49.99]Intel Celeron G530 Sandy Bridge 2.4GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor
[$49.99]MSI H61M-P20 (G3) LGA 1155 Intel H61 Micro ATX
[$59.99](optional)MSI R6570-MD1G/LP Radeon HD 6570 1GB 128-bit DDR3
[$12.99]Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory
[$59.99]IN WIN BL641.300TBL Black Steel MicroATX Slim Case Computer Case 300W Power Supply
--------------------------------
total : $232.95
notes: use the ODD and foppy as an HDD space, total of up to 4drives can fit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128517
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103951

Mobo/Processor comes to $160, eliminates the need for a graphics card (the integrated graphics run similar to a 5xxx Radeon, more than enough for HD video), adds a 3rd core, just if you need it for some reason, permits a smaller case and allows for 6 HDDs (not 4!).

I've been slowly scheming building something similar myself of late; some sort of HTPC/Server/Seedbox that's silent and low power. Still needs work mind (it's currently pushing the £1000 mark )

do note the GPU is optional, which means its possible to bring the price down, if intel IGP's issue is too unbearable even an HD6450 for $40 would suffice which obviously would result in a cheaper build.
which small case can hold 6drives

at 60$ price to boot, with a PSU no less. if there is one tho i'd like to have one too.
so essentially its 10$ more expensive and these is what you get:

(click to show/hide)

note: i do doubt you wouldn't pass up less power consumption if you'll end up running the thing 24/7.

Dhruv · « **Reply #65 on:** July 19, 2012, 10:15:06 AM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on July 19, 2012, 05:06:59 AM

The number of computers you use is not really relevant to which one is more useful. Sure, a NAS unit serving multiple computers would be far better than an external disk, due simply to the fact that the files are made available to everyone at the same time, but that should not be the defining factor.

The NAS will be more expensive than an external, period. When you build a NAS, you are buying HDDs to put into an empty system, and you are buying the empty system, which consists either of computer parts or a prebuilt NAS unit. Most prebuilt NAS units are not worth it for the price, so I don't even consider them. However, when you build a NAS, what you are paying for is more advanced handling of your data and more reliability. By setting up a NAS unit, you would typically also build a software layer that combines your disks together, so you see a single disk (my 6 disk array shows up as a single 13.7TB disk). You would also typically set up a RAID volume as this software layer, which allows your data to survive if one or more disks fail in your collection of disks (depends on which RAID level you pick). When you have a bunch of externals, if you lose a disk you will lose all the data on that disk. Note this does not have to be done in software - there exist hardware to do the same thing, and many Intel-based motherboards have built-in RAID capability. If you have a board without onboard RAID, a good RAID card costs hundreds, while a simple RAID card can cost under $50.

So, in the end, a NAS and an external HDD perform the same tasks but the extra benefits of the NAS kind of put it into a different category.

I mentioned Drobo in my last post but it doesn't look like you looked it up. You really should check it out.

I think i am beginning to understand what you mean.... it's like if i have 2 external HDD so if one of them goes corrupt or something else then i stand a risk of losing all the data in that disk... but if i have a NAS unit ieven if the disk goes bad i just have to replace it and all my data will be still there... right?
If what i said is correct then i guess it is worth it... so what is costlier? building it on your own or buying one which is already made from the market?
And what is your NAS configuration?.... and how much did it cost you?.. if you could tell me how to assemble it i am more than willing to look into the prospect of buying an NAS unit myself. After all my data would be safe even if my disk goes bad.

And yeah looking up Drobo... but that is like $799 for the casing only.... i think i can afford till max $800
What can i hope to get for that... not even close to what you maybe having?

Edit: Called up the experts on this... they are saying that they can give me an 8TB system for approx. 60000 rs.(i.e. $1100)
That is for an assembled unit... aren't we going out of budget

Quote from: kitamesume on July 19, 2012, 05:52:54 AM

Quote from: rostheferret on July 18, 2012, 10:04:20 PM
Quote from: kitamesume on July 18, 2012, 04:59:15 PM
(click to show/hide)
[$49.99]Intel Celeron G530 Sandy Bridge 2.4GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop Processor
[$49.99]MSI H61M-P20 (G3) LGA 1155 Intel H61 Micro ATX
[$59.99](optional)MSI R6570-MD1G/LP Radeon HD 6570 1GB 128-bit DDR3
[$12.99]Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory
[$59.99]IN WIN BL641.300TBL Black Steel MicroATX Slim Case Computer Case 300W Power Supply
--------------------------------
total : $232.95
notes: use the ODD and foppy as an HDD space, total of up to 4drives can fit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128517
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103951

Mobo/Processor comes to $160, eliminates the need for a graphics card (the integrated graphics run similar to a 5xxx Radeon, more than enough for HD video), adds a 3rd core, just if you need it for some reason, permits a smaller case and allows for 6 HDDs (not 4!).

I've been slowly scheming building something similar myself of late; some sort of HTPC/Server/Seedbox that's silent and low power. Still needs work mind (it's currently pushing the £1000 mark )
do note the GPU is optional, which means its possible to bring the price down, if intel IGP's issue is too unbearable even an HD6450 for $40 would suffice which obviously would result in a cheaper build.
which small case can hold 6drives at 60$ price to boot, with a PSU no less. if there is one tho i'd like to have one too.
so essentially its 10$ more expensive and these is what you get:
(click to show/hide)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

(click to show/hide)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

note: i do doubt you wouldn't pass up less power consumption if you'll end up running the thing 24/7.

hmm... i will use it 24/7 if i can so power consumption becomes a factor there.

rostheferret · « **Reply #66 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:05:53 PM »

You can't compare benchmarks from two different tests with any real confidence, who knows what different hardware they were running when they were testing that. My point was that it's another option; for the same price you can have the same processing power, I thought better graphics capabilities but it looks like they're similar, and even across the comparisons, similar power outputs. Especially seeing as it's going to spend a lot of time closer to idle than under load. The only real difference between our suggestions is that mine can take two more HDDs. It all depends how much space you're gonna want from it.

As for the case, I'm sure one exists but if you want a small one, then it gets more costly. I like the look of the Lian Li but they don't come cheap :/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112300

kitamesume · « **Reply #67 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:07:56 PM »

thats why building one yourself saves you the money imho, you told me you could grab 1TB/70$ that would mean a (4x3TB)12TB array would cost about 840$ plus 240$ for the main PC that'll house the thing.

which would then sum up for a 1,080$ 12TB NAS box capable of being an HTPC, or roughly 965$ for a torrent-NAS rig using an zacate E240 motherboard kit.

@rostheferret
yes i can see your point but i must tell you that the GPU is an optional part of the unit since you can live without it which would mean its roughly 60$ cheaper. also i doubt A6-3500's IGP is better than the HD6570, specially if the ram is gimped to a 2GB DDR3 1333. in essence of what you're suggesting he'll need to invest more on the Llano to get it's max worth.
edit:

(click to show/hide)

PS: AMD's CPU worth isnt so good compared to intel now a days, Llanos are exceptions but certain intel+GPU combinations could top Llano offering in terms of performance/$ and performance/Watt. if you really want worth it AMD CPUs tho you might wanna wait for their next release, i think they were called Trinity.

(click to show/hide)

edit: also, i haven't seen a case with 6capacity @ around $60 with a PSU no less. do you know one? i'd like to see if i'd like it.

rostheferret · « **Reply #68 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:35:46 PM »

Yes, you would have to invest a little more, but then you can expand that 12TB array into an 18TB one. The physical size of the Lian Li is only a little larger (to accommodate the extra HDDs) but the price would go up to about $300 (without a graphics card. As you said it isn't needed and I'm running on the basis that you shouldn't have one). That can be brought down if size isn't a limiting factor (get an Antec 300 or something).

I'm also ignoring the internal PSU, because I can't stand the cheap internal PSU's; it's arguably the most important part of a build (seeing as it actually powers everything) so I can't stand the thought of skimping out on something that could potentially demolish my entire system. It's just an alternative, depending on how much space you'll want from the build.

kitamesume · « **Reply #69 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:51:30 PM »

^ PSUs are replacable anytime so you can just buy a PSU if you arent comfortable with the built-in, but do note that some cases has their own unique PSUs, or in this case FlexPSUs are uncommon in the market, specially good ones.

PS: i've been running built-in PSUs since i started building my own rigs and so far only two failed on me because of dust clogs making them overheat, the only times i bought good PSUs is when i'm after efficiencies. in my count i did it twice, one for my torrent rig and the other for my main rig.
generic PSUs arent as dangerous if you know their limits, in this case precautions of not going over 150watt usage at least and adding filter capacitors/zener regulators in parallel on the line could serve you well.

(click to show/hide)

edit: i guess this could act as a replacement - [$39.99]SeaSonic SS-300TFX Bronze 300W TFX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - OEM, just add 40$, lol.

Dhruv · « **Reply #70 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:42:17 PM »

Quote from: kitamesume on July 19, 2012, 12:07:56 PM

thats why building one yourself saves you the money imho, you told me you could grab 1TB/70$ that would mean a (4x3TB)12TB array would cost about 840$ plus 240$ for the main PC that'll house the thing.

which would then sum up for a 1,080$ 12TB NAS box capable of being an HTPC, or roughly 965$ for a torrent-NAS rig using an zacate E240 motherboard kit.

* Dhruv Headdesks

This is going WAYYYY out of budget... i talked about $800... but this is going over $1100 like this...not affordable at all for me atleast right now
And yes i did say $70/TB but it will get lower since the which i quoted was from 3TB WD My Book Essentials
i'd say it will go down to $65 if i buy 4 HDD of 3TB each without any outside casing that is.

kitamesume · « **Reply #71 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:57:55 PM »

^ 1TB/70$ @ 2x3TB = 420$
420$ + 240$ = 660$ 6TB HTPC-NAS unit
420$ + 125$ = 545$ 6TB torrent-NAS unit

you could always add more HDDs later on.

theres also an option of using your main PC as the NAS which would cut the costs, most likely upgrades on PSU and case will be the only required items, that is if you had enough SATA ports open, if not then you'll need a SATA card as well.

Dhruv · « **Reply #72 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:15:13 PM »

Quote from: kitamesume on July 19, 2012, 03:57:55 PM

^ 1TB/70$ @ 2x3TB = 420$
420$ + 240$ = 660$ 6TB HTPC-NAS unit
420$ + 125$ = 545$ 6TB torrent-NAS unit

you could always add more HDDs later on.

theres also an option of using your main PC as the NAS which would cut the costs, most likely upgrades on PSU and case will be the only required items, that is if you had enough SATA ports open, if not then you'll need a SATA card as well.

Yeah this is much better and within my budget

What is the difference between Torrent-NAS unit and HTPC-NAS unit?
And yeah 6TB would take me atleast 1.5 yrs to fill so by that time i'd have more money

But i'll buy a bigger casing/exterior so that i leave some empty slots initially that can be filled up later
And i use a Laptop but it has a eSATA port... dunno about SATA ports though... it doesn't have a USB 3.0 port either

halfelite · « **Reply #73 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:47:11 PM »

You dont sound to technical if you want a nas go with synology. you can get a 4bay for 350$ or less + price of the drives or something like the DS1512+ which is a 5 bay expandable to 15 but it starting price is 800$ plus however many drives. One good thing about synology is you dont need the same size drives. It will let you mix and match. So you dont need 4x3tb drives. you can mix 2x1tb with 2x3tb and it will give you all the space usable even in raid 5 mode. And when you run out of space you just pop a drive in and it will expand for you. if you run out of slots you can replace drives with larger ones just by sliding it out.

Synology is very well built and easy to use. I would pick it over the overpriced DROBO's, and the Qnap system is not as user friendly.

Dhruv · « **Reply #74 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:52:06 PM »

Quote from: halfelite on July 19, 2012, 04:47:11 PM

You dont sound to technical if you want a nas go with synology. you can get a 4bay for 350$ or less or something like the DS1512+ which is a 5 bay expandable to 15. One good thing about synology is you dont need the same size drives. It will let you mix and match. So you dont need 5 3tb drives. you can mix 2x1tb with 2x3tb and it will give you all the space usable even in raid 5 mode.

Yup you got that right i am not at all technical.
so synology you mentioned for $350... does it have any disks or is it a diskless system?
and how do you expand it? i can't picture it?

kitamesume · « **Reply #75 on:** July 19, 2012, 04:59:20 PM »

^ its a diskless system.

the difference between the HTPC-NAS and torrent-NAS is their main componentry, the torrent-NAS has a weak component but at least enough to drive a torrent client and host a file server at the same time, while the HTPC-NAS has enough power to decode videos to be used as an HTPC which essentially will be much more expensive but it has it's uses. unless you don't need the HTPC-NAS then you'd be content with the torrent-NAS.

advantages of making your NAS an HTPC would be that your files is directly on that unit itself, leaving it on would be both advantageous as a HTPC and NAS as well while letting it sit idle wouldn't be a waste since it can both torrent and serve as a file server.

but first things first you outa decide how big of a case can you keep, the bigger the better but too big would be a problem in setting it on one spot.

halfelite · « **Reply #76 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:01:06 PM »

Quote from: Dhruv on July 19, 2012, 04:52:06 PM

Quote from: halfelite on July 19, 2012, 04:47:11 PM
You dont sound to technical if you want a nas go with synology. you can get a 4bay for 350$ or less or something like the DS1512+ which is a 5 bay expandable to 15. One good thing about synology is you dont need the same size drives. It will let you mix and match. So you dont need 5 3tb drives. you can mix 2x1tb with 2x3tb and it will give you all the space usable even in raid 5 mode.
Yup you got that right i am not at all technical.
so synology you mentioned for $350... does it have any disks or is it a diskless system?
and how do you expand it? i can't picture it?

looks like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049MPQGS/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004XYJJ9W&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0RZS94BKQ19ZXW0GXT8C

You buy say a 3tb drive pop it in and you have 3 tb of storage. when you start running low you drop in another 3tb drive you now have 6tb of storage. anytime you need space you just add a drive to it it will do all the work of expanding the file system and such, if you run there hybrid raid 5 then you need to start with at least 2 disks

Dhruv · « **Reply #77 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:07:31 PM »

Quote from: kitamesume on July 19, 2012, 04:59:20 PM

^ its a diskless system.

the difference between the HTPC-NAS and torrent-NAS is their main componentry, the torrent-NAS has a weak component but at least enough to drive a torrent client and host a file server at the same time, while the HTPC-NAS has enough power to decode videos to be used as an HTPC which essentially will be much more expensive but it has it's uses. unless you don't need the HTPC-NAS then you'd be content with the torrent-NAS.

advantages of making your NAS an HTPC would be that your files is directly on that unit itself, leaving it on would be both advantageous as a HTPC and NAS as well while letting it sit idle wouldn't be a waste since it can both torrent and serve as a file server.

but first things first you outa decide how big of a case can you keep, the bigger the better but too big would be a problem in setting it on one spot.

I guess it would be better for me if i bought Torrent-NAS one as my purposes are fairly limited to only storage.
It seems it will be cheaper on the long run.
But bigger system can be a problem... not a worry i can always buy a trolley to move it around on

Quote from: halfelite on July 19, 2012, 05:01:06 PM

Quote from: Dhruv on July 19, 2012, 04:52:06 PM
Quote from: halfelite on July 19, 2012, 04:47:11 PM
You dont sound to technical if you want a nas go with synology. you can get a 4bay for 350$ or less or something like the DS1512+ which is a 5 bay expandable to 15. One good thing about synology is you dont need the same size drives. It will let you mix and match. So you dont need 5 3tb drives. you can mix 2x1tb with 2x3tb and it will give you all the space usable even in raid 5 mode.
Yup you got that right i am not at all technical.
so synology you mentioned for $350... does it have any disks or is it a diskless system?
and how do you expand it? i can't picture it?

looks like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049MPQGS/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004XYJJ9W&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0RZS94BKQ19ZXW0GXT8C

You buy say a 3tb drive pop it in and you have 3 tb of storage. when you start running low you drop in another 3tb drive you now have 6tb of storage. anytime you need space you just add a drive to it it will do all the work of expanding the file system and such, if you run there hybrid raid 5 then you need to start with at least 2 disks

Okay so i can't mix the amount of capacity disks? like 2TB+3TB
How exactly do you expand it? i mean increase the number of slots
And the cost of disk that go inside it would be lesser than the ones which are sold separately i.e. like WD 2TB... just connect it to the computer straight and start using

kitamesume · « **Reply #78 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:08:35 PM »

360$ for a diskless station is kinda iffy $:-\$

btw, check this case if it can suit you [$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 361
dimensions: Width-5.9" x Height-14.4" x Length-18.2"

theres a maximum of 4 x 3.5" spaces for drive and one 5.25" that can be used for another drive, also if you use an M-ATX board you can occupy the 3 x expansion slots for drives as well. for a total of 8drives at least.

scratch that, antec 300 it is based on price alone =/

halfelite · « **Reply #79 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:10:36 PM »

Quote from: Dhruv on July 19, 2012, 05:07:31 PM

Okay so i can't mix the amount of capacity disks? like 2TB+3TB
How exactly do you expand it? i mean increase the number of slots
And the cost of disk that go inside it would be lesser than the ones which are sold separately i.e. like WD 2TB... just connect it to the computer straight and start using

yes you can mix different capacity drives its one of the nice things about synology but double check you can on that 4bay model you might have to bump up to the 450$ model, depending on the model you buy synology sales expandable modules think of it as an esata with that connects to the back fo the unit and has 5 bays. Price of the disk is the same they are the same drives.