Discussion Forums > Politics
Todd Akin wants abortion banned for rape victims
elvikun:
--- Quote from: AceHigh on August 24, 2012, 06:55:45 PM ---Granted, my example isn't not so fitting because it's not about forcing anyone, but providing an alternative... a persuasive method. But I see that the topic is about ban on abortions, not actual help to the victims.
--- End quote ---
Well, it has gone astray a bit, which might be better than talking about a guy who believes that only woman who wanted to get raped can get pregnant from being raped and wants to legislate it.
Putting up for adoption and filling up orphanages already working over 100% capacity is a way to deal with an aftermath of banning an abortions, but it's not an alternative.
Then the problem runs deeper, seeing how numbers of kids for adoption is much higher than the number of people wanting to adopt, but that might be a topic for another time.
Goldfrapp:
This is like stepping into the fire. And here I walk right in.
Some of you have written very good post about the subject.
I think EVERY woman, rape or not, should have the possibility to choose abortion if they feel this is the right action.
Therefor, the poll should be changed to:
Every woman has the right to have an abortion. And the answers should be: Yes or Indifferent.
Deciding if your going to have an abortion is NOT an easy decision. It takes a lot of thinking and work. It is not something you do because you want to take life. It is something you do because you (hopefully) are desperate.
No politicians should be allowed to decide it, it should be up to the women who is pregnant.
I don't think it is right under any circumstances: If your having an abortion, it should be done withing the 12 first weeks of pregnancy, since its considered a fetus the 12 first weeks, and you actually can't be sure it will survive anyways. Second, they try to save babies that are born in week 23, so there is need for a limit of how late you can get one. If your a victim of rape and abuse, the laws should be different. How they should be, I can't tell.
However, there should be some sort of limits to it... I don't think it is ok if you have several abortions. Learn how to protect yourself if you don't want to get pregnant.
If you get raped or abused, it is a different story.
(On the other hand, your kinda fucked up in your mind/lifestyle/IQ if you have multiple abortions, and one can start to questioning if you should have kids at all. I'm gonna leave it to that, because it is a debate I don't want to go into tonight.)
Ixarku:
--- Quote from: Burkingam on August 24, 2012, 10:47:44 AM ---If someone is dying and needs a new liver to survive, nobody has the legal obligation to give this person their one, not even if there is only one person on earth whose blood-type is compatible with him and it just so happen to be his/her parent, not even if this is the result to a road accident and his/her parent was one of the two drivers. You are simply of no legal obligation to give part of your body to someone else, especially if it would impact your own health.
Do you see where I'm coming? Pregnancy forces a women to provide part of her body to a fetus, in a way that could irreversibly damage her health or even kill her, rarely, and yet if she wants an abortion it's usually because the pregnancy is part of an accident.
Some people try to refute this argument by pointing out that the women was only taking this risk to gain sexual pleasure (except in the case of a rape) and so she should take the responsibility of her act, but again, if a driver is using his car to go eat an icecream, he's also taking a risk just for to gain some culinary pleasure and yet if someone gets hit by his car and the victim needs a new liver, nobody is trying to force him to give his own.
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Just to be clear, you realize I'm pro-choice, right? Most of what I've been arguing about for the last few days has been what I think is probably the only comendable to thing to come out of the pro-life side, which is a respect for life. On the basis of that respect for human life, I see abortion as immoral in some circumstances, but there are lots of compelling reasons to mitigate or negate that. Just like there are a lot of reasonable reasons to terminate the life of an adult. My opinion is that abortion is a personal decision that the state should have no say in, at all. It should be up to each individual to decide what's right for them to do in their situation. I don't think any woman should be forced to carry a child she doesn't want. But I may be very critical or judgemental of a woman who acts in a way that I think is irresponsible. Which is also fine -- everyone is entitled to an opinion, as long as it stays as nothing more than an opinion.
What I vehemently disagree with on the pro-lifers is the arrogant attempt to force their moral outlook on other people. I've had several long discussions recently with different people about the use of hyperbole to manipulate people, something which I consider to be offensive and reprehensible, and the pro-lifers are very guilty of engaging in this. So while I agree with certain pro-life perspectives, my own beliefs are fundamentally at odds with the methods & objectives of the movement itself.
elvikun:
Forgot to mention it before, but fun facts, pro-life movement is also for "traditional place of women in the family" and absolute majority of members are men. You just have to love those guys.
But yeah, before someone says it - not everyone who calls themselves "pro-life" is in the actual movement or cares enough to check what is it about.
--- Quote from: Goldfrapp on August 24, 2012, 08:21:54 PM ---However, there should be some sort of limits to it... I don't think it is ok if you have several abortions. Learn how to protect yourself if you don't want to get pregnant.
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I actually like that idea, let's forbid women to have abortions if they have more than a 3 within 10 years and castrate men who cause more than 3 pregnancies withing 10 years. Would be a lot cooler than the "Woman who is having sex is a slut and deserves whatever is comming to her!" and "Man who is having sex with 10 different women is a stud, respect dude!".
Ixarku:
--- Quote from: elvikun on August 24, 2012, 10:50:08 PM ---I actually like that idea, let's forbid women to have abortions if they have more than a 3 within 10 years and castrate men who cause more than 3 pregnancies withing 10 years. Would be a lot cooler than the "Woman who is having sex is a slut and deserves whatever is comming to her!" and "Man who is having sex with 10 different women is a stud, respect dude!".
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I think if it's a man who causes more than X pregnancies without assuming any financial or parental responsibility for his offspring, he might deserve castration. Or at least a good, solid ass-whuppin' followed by some legal action.
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