Author Topic: Thank you Tea Party -- people are not vaccinating their kids now (Read 2727 times)

vicious796 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 30, 2012, 12:26:13 PM »

What really irks me about the movement is that these people aren't making decisions for themselves and many of them are, in fact, vaccinated. Their children are the ones put at risk and, honestly, they at least had a chance to be more intelligent than their parents. Likelihood of death? Extremely low. The risk is still there, though, and it's not their fault.

Burkingam · « **Reply #41 on:** August 30, 2012, 01:01:21 PM »

^And again, they also create a risk for anyone entering in contact with their kids in case of contamination.

vicious796 · « **Reply #42 on:** August 30, 2012, 01:25:45 PM »

Also, I find these stories fitting. A "new" virus has been discovered in middle America and a drug resistant form of tuberculosis has also been spotted across the globe.

http://news.yahoo.com/heartland-virus-discovered-sick-missouri-farmers-213644509.html

http://news.yahoo.com/drug-resistant-tuberculosis-found-across-world-230226952.html

jaybug · « **Reply #43 on:** August 30, 2012, 11:14:22 PM »

Nikk, I think of no medical treatment for religious reasons to be eugenics the slow way.

Burkingam · « **Reply #44 on:** August 31, 2012, 12:38:25 AM »

Quote from: jaybug on August 30, 2012, 11:14:22 PM

Nikk, I think of no medical treatment for religious reasons to be eugenics the slow way.

The problem is that in the hand of the day, fundies reproduce faster than atheists like me, or moderates like you, because they refuse to use any kind of contraception and they teach their kids to go with "abstinence only" and then they refuse to get an abortion. Evolution isn't about who can survive the best, it's about who can make the most baby and then have their babies make even more babies etc.

Nikkoru · « **Reply #45 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:12:19 AM »

That, and a person having a philosophy or religion I find erroneous doesn't make me genetically superior to them in any way.

In my view, if you're willing to die or see your children die because you believe God would intervene to heal you if it was his will to do so, you are nothing more than an unthinking fatalist seeking death and dressing it up with words of faith. We all die, eventually, every other Christian with an ounce of reason would look upon medicine as a mercy, and doctors being a part of the divine plan. You've simply decided what that plan is for yourself and are willing to invite suffering for that conceit.

The only worse belief to come out of Christianity is self-flagellation and other extremes of asceticism, where mortification is seen as purification.

AceHigh · « **Reply #46 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:22:21 AM »

Quote from: Burkingam on August 31, 2012, 12:38:25 AM

The problem is that in the hand of the day, fundies reproduce faster than atheists like me, or moderates like you, because they refuse to use any kind of contraception and they teach their kids to go with "abstinence only" and then they refuse to get an abortion. Evolution isn't about who can survive the best, it's about who can make the most baby and then have their babies make even more babies etc.

That is not their problem, but yours. If you want to beat them by the rule of majority, reproduce. Besides, I would say that this statement is false because we all know that percentage of the religious people in the dark ages were way higher than today. Ever since the age of enlightenment atheists and agnostics as a demographic are only growing.

nstgc · « **Reply #47 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:32:46 AM »

There is also the tendency for creative and intelligent people to shy away from religious fundamentalism, even if they are of faith. Since both of those can be passed on to children, the children of non-fundies are more likely to be non-fundy themselves. I would also assume that the creative and intelligent tend to breed with their own, so you get two groups of people -- one that breeds like rabbits, and kills themselves off, and another that is good at staying alive, but breed more slowly. So evolution isn't so much favoring the self destructive so much as dividing humanity among the intellectual haves and have nots.

I would still love to see them all wage a huge holy war while the rest of us are left out of it completely, but that won't happen.

Nikkoru · « **Reply #48 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:46:19 AM »

Reproduction is irrelevant, the growth in areligious people is a response to modernism and God being dead for some time now. The secularization of society is something of an inevitability when we started to look to scientific research to answer significant questions before asking members of the clergy. The fact that extremes still exists, and are vocal in politics, doesn't mitigate the overwhelming number of moderates who simply don't care and yet hold a belief in god(s).

Besides, this has nothing to do with vaccines, the incredible success of global immunization demonstrates that religious contention has been insignificant to negligible. The anti-vax movement is more akin to the Obama Birthers than any theistic stance.

Burkingam · « **Reply #49 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:48:52 AM »

Atheist and agnostics are growing in number because their ideas are spreading, not because they reproduce more than the religious.

The fastest growing religion in the world right now is Islam, and yet it has nothing to do with them converting new people, quite the contrary. They keep losing members. No it has to do with how they threat their women: like baby factories. The fastest growing countries in the world also tend to be highly religious (and are also very poor): e.g. Zimbabwe, Niger, Uganda, Liberia

StealthWar42 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:49:52 AM »

I'd rather see such crazed fundamentalism broken down by facilitating greater access to college/university-level education. Call me crazy but I have my doubts this is related to reproduction/"breeding" at all.

vicious796 · « **Reply #51 on:** August 31, 2012, 12:10:40 PM »

Quote from: Nikkoru on August 31, 2012, 01:12:19 AM

In my view, if you're willing to die or see your children die because you believe God would intervene to heal you if it was his will to do so, you are nothing more than an unthinking fatalist seeking death and dressing it up with words of faith. We all die, eventually, every other Christian with an ounce of reason would look upon medicine as a mercy, and doctors being a part of the divine plan. You've simply decided what that plan is for yourself and are willing to invite suffering for that conceit.

This reminds me of a story a Pastor said in Church a long time ago (well, when I went). A woman refuses 3 men who come to tell her to evacuate because of an incoming hurricane saying "God will save her". The storm hits and refuses 2 more with the same reasoning. Eventually, the flooding forces her to the roof of her house. She refuses help from a helicopter team, once again saying "God will save me."

The woman drowned.

To anyone who would say "God didn't save her", I say he sent her 5 fucking people and a helicopter.

Of course, the Pastor didn't use the word "fucking", but I feel it adds a little flair.

99% of the religious people I know think along the same lines. Instead of thinking with a fatalistic mindset of "God will save me if he wants to" just consider the fact that this all-powerful God you claim to believe in could have easily stopped the creation of those vaccines or made the diseases immune.

AceHigh · « **Reply #52 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:06:35 PM »

I also heard a more laconic saying "God protects those who protect themselves".

Ixarku · « **Reply #53 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:29:39 PM »

Quote from: AceHigh on August 31, 2012, 01:06:35 PM

I also heard a more laconic saying "God protects those who protect themselves".

I usually hear it expressed as, "God helps those who help themselves."

Pharismo · « **Reply #54 on:** September 01, 2012, 05:49:54 PM »

Quote from: Ixarku on August 31, 2012, 10:29:39 PM

Quote from: AceHigh on August 31, 2012, 01:06:35 PM
I also heard a more laconic saying "God protects those who protect themselves".

I usually hear it expressed as, "God helps those who help themselves."

I usually hear it as:0" God helps those who follows him"

jaybug · « **Reply #55 on:** September 02, 2012, 11:14:20 PM »

You don't have to be a fundamentalist to have a large family. My mom's cousin had 14 kids, they are only Catholic. My best friend has 5 brothers and sisters, his parents are more or less atheists. They never went to a church except for 4 Weddings and a Funeral. pun intended.

They all gave their kids immunizations because that is what you did in our society. But now that our dear government has seen fit to lie to US so often and regularly...But then this is also just a spur action that can be traced to fluoridation of the water, see Dr. Strangelove to realize how old that chestnut is.

BUt I don't fear because Milla Jovovich will save us!

Burkingam · « **Reply #56 on:** September 02, 2012, 11:43:24 PM »

I can face a place where we say that people of higher religiosity tend to reproduce more, but I can't find where we said that no fundy have a small family and all the seculars and the moderates have few or no children.

Pharismo · « **Reply #57 on:** September 03, 2012, 08:54:20 PM »

Is there any law that make a obligation to vaccine kids on USA?

AceHigh · « **Reply #58 on:** September 06, 2012, 07:47:25 PM »

Bubonic Plague is back!

Good timing for this thread.

jaybug · « **Reply #59 on:** September 06, 2012, 09:48:34 PM »

We have vaccines for bubonic plague? How about pneumonic plague, the worse form of the disease? Oregon seems to get one almost once per year now. 'Course we also have people getting rabies too. And there there is politics!

Oregon sent a couple to jail this year for their inaction of not getting proper medical attention for their child, who died. I don't know, but if we are going to be doing this as a state, we should be focusing our attention on those under 18.