Author Topic: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions  (Read 46869 times)

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1260 on: April 30, 2014, 11:09:13 AM »
oh those, from what i've heard they haven't been priced yet, well at least officially.



on a side note hearing some further news with the haswell refresh, seems like they'll be improving overclockability to an extent.
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/intel_devils_canyon_and_pentium_k_launch_june_2nd_2014.html

this makes me wonder though, how would a dual-core haswell pentium @ 5Ghz compare to a hawell i3 @ 3.5Ghz.
even if you factor in HT its still barely slower in multi-threaded workloads, and thats without considering the part that HT doesn't scale well enough like real cores.

but coming from my i3-2100 (sandybridge @ 3.1Ghz) i wonder if its a downgrade, its worth considering for the massive single-threaded performance boost.
[100% = base sandy @ 3.1Ghz]
100% x 1.1(ivy) x 1.1 (haswell) = 121% x ( 5.0Ghz / 3.1Ghz ) = 195% or 95% faster in single-threaded performance.
if taking out HT means decreasing the overall multi-threaded performance by 33%(1/3) its still gonna be 30% faster.
but for a worst case, its getting little to no performance improvements in multi-thread workloads.



http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/asus_to_unleash_full_sata_express_performance.html
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 11:24:16 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Mistgun_Zero

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1261 on: April 30, 2014, 12:05:52 PM »
Care to explain the last link. I don't really know much about this stuff. Does it require two connection.  And the speeds compared to now on SSd and hhd.

Ah well, this link explains it a bit more nicely.  http://www.legitreviews.com/what-is-sata-express-and-why-it-matters_140093

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« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 12:17:02 PM by Mistgun_Zero »

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1262 on: April 30, 2014, 12:24:48 PM »
i'm not exactly sure either, but seems like they're trying to parallelize the sata ports with PCIe to increase throughput and decrease latency.

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Offline kureshii

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1263 on: April 30, 2014, 12:38:38 PM »
What you can be sure of, is that it'll involve a lot of "what?! You're telling me _____ will work with _____ but not with _____?!" and lots of returns :P

I’d wait for things to stabilise, and for them to reach Mini-ITX/thin-ITX, before I look into them. M.2 is barely out and cooled and its incompatibility issues aren’t even settled yet, and now here’s another one to add to the list.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1264 on: April 30, 2014, 01:35:52 PM »
looking at some other stuffs that recently came into the market, HSFs in particular makes me wonder, how come they hadn't made an air/water hybrid cooler?

in concept the heatpipes transports heat faster than most practical means of cooling but only a little heat at a time can be transported.

while water can absorb and store a lot of heat at a time, then transporting the stored heat onto the radiators to be released and dissipated.
the problem is the heat absorption rate and heat dissipation rate of water is slow(hey how fast can you heat a kettle full of water? or long will it take to chill it in the fridge?).

combining both could net better results, by using the heatpipes as a means of spreading heat where water can benefit from the larger area of heat exchange.

edit: theres a small topic in OCN about doing a water cooled heatpipe - http://www.overclock.net/t/1352540/water-cooling-heat-pipes-a-worthy-idea
edit2: another one - http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?81128-Watercooled-heatpipes-%28Give-opinons%29&p=1154135#post1154135
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 03:03:57 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Mistgun_Zero

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1265 on: April 30, 2014, 02:51:41 PM »
I wonder why they don't used refrigerants or liquids that have better heat absorption/dissipation than water like ammonia in those all in one liquid coolers like corsair h100 and all.

Even though Noctua d14 is perhaps the most superior HSF out there, it's sheer size and weight makes me wanna go for a AIO liquid solution.

Offline kenshin-dono

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1266 on: May 01, 2014, 04:28:22 AM »
the 'meh' aspect of the haswells is the reason ive build like 3 computers the past year but have yet to build one for myself =P THat and not really liking where the gfx cards are sitting right now. Interesting to see theres a new processor line coming down te road
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1267 on: May 01, 2014, 04:31:22 AM »
the 'meh' aspect of the haswells is the reason ive build like 3 computers the past year but have yet to build one for myself =P THat and not really liking where the gfx cards are sitting right now. Interesting to see theres a new processor line coming down te road
haswell is indeed meh but isn't to sneeze at, for their worth, so long as your end-goal isn't overclocking, they're an extremely worth-it upgrade over the past generation GPUs.

well the GFX's current line is indeed meh though, i'm still waiting for a worthy upgrade over my HD7950, most likely it'll still be by next year.



if anyone could answer this question of mine though i'd greatly appreciate it.

on a side note hearing some further news with the haswell refresh, seems like they'll be improving overclockability to an extent.
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/intel_devils_canyon_and_pentium_k_launch_june_2nd_2014.html

this makes me wonder though, how would a dual-core haswell pentium @ 5Ghz compare to a hawell i3 @ 3.5Ghz.
even if you factor in HT its still barely slower in multi-threaded workloads, and thats without considering the part that HT doesn't scale well enough like real cores.

but coming from my i3-2100 (sandybridge @ 3.1Ghz) i wonder if its a downgrade, its worth considering for the massive single-threaded performance boost.
[100% = base sandy @ 3.1Ghz]
100% x 1.1(ivy) x 1.1 (haswell) = 121% x ( 5.0Ghz / 3.1Ghz ) = 195% or 95% faster in single-threaded performance.
if taking out HT means decreasing the overall multi-threaded performance by 33%(1/3) its still gonna be 30% faster.
but for a worst case, its getting little to no performance improvements in multi-thread workloads.

edit: adding one more question, if a dual-core has twice the single-threaded performance of a quad-core, wouldn't it perform identical in multi-threaded as well?
e.g. lets say a "dual-core haswell @ 5Ghz [vs] quad-core haswell @ 2.5Ghz"
its actually similar to "intel i5 4core [vs] AMD FX 8core" in a sense of "fast 2core [vs] slow 4core"
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 07:54:31 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1268 on: May 03, 2014, 03:26:44 AM »
Kay so ... this seems to be out of question since the USB 3.0 is not reliable. :/ ...


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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1269 on: May 03, 2014, 07:29:23 AM »
Kay so ... this seems to be out of question since the USB 3.0 is not reliable. :/ ...
what are you trying to build?
imho you could make a NAS with harddrive array using ITX cases.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147217
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352027

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Offline Mistgun_Zero

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1270 on: May 03, 2014, 07:44:25 AM »

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1271 on: May 03, 2014, 08:05:24 AM »
the price premium is enormous though :o

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Offline Mistgun_Zero

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1272 on: May 03, 2014, 08:38:35 AM »
For once in a lifetime buy, I wouldn't mind. Especially piwer loss protection. Where I live it's quite useful. And no, even those ups backups don't work perfectly all the time.

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1273 on: May 03, 2014, 04:23:54 PM »
Kay so ... this seems to be out of question since the USB 3.0 is not reliable. :/ ...
what are you trying to build?
imho you could make a NAS with harddrive array using ITX cases.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147217
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352027
I don't need NAS. So don't recommend that anymore!

I think the link I posted in my previous post has only issues with MAC users. I've asked another question to verify. I'm also looking at this.

I want to set up all-in-one enclosure to move all of my anime off the externals onto that. Very fast speeds, more reliable than Green editions and the prices are about right. And, it is all connected through one wire ... not multiple wires!


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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1274 on: May 03, 2014, 07:24:54 PM »
I want to set up all-in-one enclosure to move all of my anime off the externals onto that. Very fast speeds, more reliable than Green editions and the prices are about right. And, it is all connected through one wire ... not multiple wires!
thats what a NAS is, a good NAS doesn't even need a wire because they can be designed wireless.

edit: i forgot to mention that the JBOD arrays on those enclosures are suicidal, depending on the implementation one dead drive can takeout all the files across all the harddrives.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 07:40:52 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline halfelite

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1275 on: May 03, 2014, 07:45:43 PM »

I don't need NAS. So don't recommend that anymore!


A NAS is exactly what you want. What do you think your maximum space needed is Synology just came out with the DS214se at like 159$ but only a 2 bay. Going with an enclosure is just sloppy and most of them have crappy backplanes and lots of issues.

There is two ways to look it get a nice 2-4+ bay NAS and be set for years or keep putting together cheap enclosures running JBOD that will get messy.

And the link you posted will not be fast. if you are running it over esata which make sure your motherboard has port multiplier not a lot of them do you are spreading 8 drives on a single channel so if you fill it that is 9 drives on one sata port. If you go with a NAS either wired or wireless you can store it anywhere does not need to be buy a computer it can be out of site out of mind.

your one enclosure if you are say playing a video and seeding a torrent on two different drives you can maybe get 100Mb/s then each time you spin up another drive in the enclosure keep dividing by 2. Same for usb since its a cheap single backplane with out its own I/o
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 07:54:30 PM by halfelite »

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1276 on: May 03, 2014, 08:44:00 PM »

I don't need NAS. So don't recommend that anymore!


A NAS is exactly what you want. What do you think your maximum space needed is Synology just came out with the DS214se at like 159$ but only a 2 bay. Going with an enclosure is just sloppy and most of them have crappy backplanes and lots of issues.

There is two ways to look it get a nice 2-4+ bay NAS and be set for years or keep putting together cheap enclosures running JBOD that will get messy.

And the link you posted will not be fast. if you are running it over esata which make sure your motherboard has port multiplier not a lot of them do you are spreading 8 drives on a single channel so if you fill it that is 9 drives on one sata port. If you go with a NAS either wired or wireless you can store it anywhere does not need to be buy a computer it can be out of site out of mind.

your one enclosure if you are say playing a video and seeding a torrent on two different drives you can maybe get 100Mb/s then each time you spin up another drive in the enclosure keep dividing by 2. Same for usb since its a cheap single backplane with out its own I/o
I see, okay this convienced me enough.

4 Bay is the minimum I have. I also don't have wireless on my computer. I don't have eSATA connections on this computer from outside, either. I have USB 3.0 so thats what I'd like to have.

I've seen several nice NAS but they're a bit expensive. The best one I saw looked so bad-ass and had 5 stars. It was 6-bay, but the fucking price on that thing is a staggering 600 USD :/ ... that's just retarded.

Lol, NAS is a computer?! ... Why can't I just build a fucking computer myself and turn it into a NAS? Wow I'm really dull on this shit. Can I custom build something on my own and have it specifically JUST for HDDs? ...

Look at this.

From what's left over:

DF-85, has 9 bays all open. Nice big case. PSU is Corsair Gold 750 ... forgot which model it was.

What I've just put together:

HSF - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231313
MOBO - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157371 (has 10 SATA slots)
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116896

Well is this good enough? Or is NAS a whole different ... thing? I don't understand this shit. NAS is a computer? Because I saw "dual-core" and "RAM" and I'm like "wow a fucking thousand dollars for a shit specs because it has 8 bays?" Does it run on some sort of software? Do you install it on your computer and access it through there?

I'm like, very lost. I think I'm even losing myself even more.

Ohh fuck yes ... This guide is neat. So it IS run on a software. The directions look easy enough. Alright, so how's the set up I put together up there? I'm gonna fill all the bays up with 4TB WD Reds. Kinda sucks I don't have room for this computer. Also, like ... how do I connect the soon-to-be-NAS set up into the network? I got an old Linksys router. Do I need anything special? Or just connect the Ethernet? The router's in-coming port is from the Internet and the other 4 ports, 3 used, are spread across the house.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 09:41:26 PM by Tatsujin »


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Offline xShadow

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1277 on: May 03, 2014, 10:43:38 PM »
For putting together a really cheap object just for holding hdd's, I'd go to ebay. Various bits of used server equipment on there for cheap prices if you care to look for them (like my server grade APC Smart UPS).

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Offline kureshii

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1278 on: May 04, 2014, 03:54:34 AM »
I've seen several nice NAS but they're a bit expensive. The best one I saw looked so bad-ass and had 5 stars. It was 6-bay, but the fucking price on that thing is a staggering 600 USD :/ ... that's just retarded.
It’s retarded unless you know what you’re paying for, and you are actually using those things/features you paid for.

Lol, NAS is a computer?! ... Why can't I just build a fucking computer myself and turn it into a NAS? Wow I'm really dull on this shit. Can I custom build something on my own and have it specifically JUST for HDDs? ...
You sure could. If you’re not picky it’s really easy. You *just* need to learn how to set it up as a server.

Look at this.

Well is this good enough? Or is NAS a whole different ... thing? I don't understand this shit. NAS is a computer? Because I saw "dual-core" and "RAM" and I'm like "wow a fucking thousand dollars for a shit specs because it has 8 bays?" Does it run on some sort of software? Do you install it on your computer and access it through there?
An NAS is essentially a PC designed to do server-things. It has customised firmware to make things really easy, web interfaces all set up, and a custom enclosure meant for convenience.

What do you get for the money? Hotswap bays, dual GbE LAN, HDD status LEDs (and maybe a text LCD), simplicity, convenience, small chassis footprint and low power consumption, firmware support, ... if you're not using most of those, the price obviously won't make sense to you. If you want to use it as a transcoding media server, you probably will want to build your own.

Among the better-reputed brands are Synology, QNAP. New entries include ASUSTOR (as the name suggests, an offshoot of ASUS), more budget-minded entries include Buffalo, and your usual router brands.

The specs may look shit, but remember that you're not using this for games or Photoshop. All those system resources will be used for background processes (e.g. RAID) and system tasks. Do you really want to blow your budget on 8 cores and 8GB RAM just for that?

----------

I'd suggest you start with any cheap PC you have lying in the basement first, set it up, play around with it, get a feel for what it's like managing a networked server, know what are the things you must have in your server and which are the nice-to-haves. Better than blowing your money on a premium NAS and finding it's not what you want. If you like that case size, Chenbro has a pretty decent ITX server case, if you can get past the name, if not any case that can handle your desired number of HDDs will do.

Personally, I started with a 4-bay Synology CS-407, liked the interface and convenience but found the 500MHz ARM processor too slow for torrent hashing. A couple of years later, moved to an i3 home server in a Lian Li V354 case, found it overpowered and not at all convenient. Running your own Linux server is fun and exciting etc and you get to do lots of shit, but there’re also nights you spend figuring out how to configure things exactly the way you want them, troubleshooting any samba updates and breakages, etc. I had a web interface set up, then it broke, then I unbroke it again, then it broke again ... chances are you’d be spending a lot of time in a command line, so you better learn to love it (unless you have a spare monitor and keyboard for the server). And unless your case has hotswap, each time you need to do something to your disks, that means mounting/unmounting then in a remote shell, opening up the case to add/remove disks, ... . And of course you have no way of knowing how your disks are doing unless you have email notifications set up, which means more reading ... If that sounds like your cup of tea, this is probably what you want.

Eventually I moved to a 6-bay Asustor AS-606T instead. Pricey? Yes :'| Convenient? Hell yes. HDD status LEDs especially, if you’re using a bunch of old/cheap drives that don’t necessarily hold up well under 24/7 operation. It took me more than a year to finally decide to go back to an NAS, but I’m glad I did. YMMV.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 04:18:01 AM by kureshii »

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1279 on: May 04, 2014, 06:05:36 AM »
^ wouldn't setting up a dropbox solution in a windows environment save you from those hassles?

although this is generally a waste of resources, you could effectively use the windows environment for other tasks like a HTPC using MPC-HC+MadVR.

rather than calling it a NAS though its a lot closer to being a windows file server.

Lol, NAS is a computer?! ... Why can't I just build a fucking computer myself and turn it into a NAS? Wow I'm really dull on this shit. Can I custom build something on my own and have it specifically JUST for HDDs? ...

Look at this.

From what's left over:

DF-85, has 9 bays all open. Nice big case. PSU is Corsair Gold 750 ... forgot which model it was.

What I've just put together:

HSF - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231313
MOBO - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157371 (has 10 SATA slots)
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116896

Well is this good enough? Or is NAS a whole different ... thing? I don't understand this shit. NAS is a computer? Because I saw "dual-core" and "RAM" and I'm like "wow a fucking thousand dollars for a shit specs because it has 8 bays?" Does it run on some sort of software? Do you install it on your computer and access it through there?

I'm like, very lost. I think I'm even losing myself even more.

Ohh fuck yes ... This guide is neat. So it IS run on a software. The directions look easy enough. Alright, so how's the set up I put together up there? I'm gonna fill all the bays up with 4TB WD Reds. Kinda sucks I don't have room for this computer. Also, like ... how do I connect the soon-to-be-NAS set up into the network? I got an old Linksys router. Do I need anything special? Or just connect the Ethernet? The router's in-coming port is from the Internet and the other 4 ports, 3 used, are spread across the house.
do you even need a fucking i5 for a NAS?

an ITX case, ITX board (with wifi or none), celeron or i3 haswell, and a 4port SATA card will be well under $400.
expand it into an MATX build if 4~6 drive slots isn't enough, an MATX build could scale well over 10 drive slots.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 06:29:49 AM by kitamesume »

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