Author Topic: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions  (Read 46847 times)

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1300 on: May 04, 2014, 03:55:42 PM »
i think he did mention reusing his Q9550 for the NAS box.
although a haswell's pentiums can beat a core2quad with ease.
Eh.. It would?


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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1301 on: May 04, 2014, 05:59:37 PM »
yeah apparently a sandybridge pentium at 2.9Ghz has close performance with a Q9550.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/404?vs=50

since theres really no direct comparison, just to give an example, haswells have 21% more performance on the same clock than sandy bridge, which puts haswell pentiums equal to or above the Q9550.

edit: not to mention the part that haswells are insanely power efficient during light loads.



edit2: this made me wonder, if anyone remembers ARM's big.LITTLE architecture? whatever you call that, i wonder if intel could do the same with their core and atom chips.
slap two i-cores and two atom cores and voala, you got a pseudo quadcore chip that could perform far better than an i3.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 06:24:27 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1302 on: May 04, 2014, 10:58:29 PM »
yeah apparently a sandybridge pentium at 2.9Ghz has close performance with a Q9550.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/404?vs=50

since theres really no direct comparison, just to give an example, haswells have 21% more performance on the same clock than sandy bridge, which puts haswell pentiums equal to or above the Q9550.

edit: not to mention the part that haswells are insanely power efficient during light loads.



edit2: this made me wonder, if anyone remembers ARM's big.LITTLE architecture? whatever you call that, i wonder if intel could do the same with their core and atom chips.
slap two i-cores and two atom cores and voala, you got a pseudo quadcore chip that could perform far better than an i3.
Would NAS use a lot of system resources? I mean you guys have been saying it doesn't. When I transfer files, will it use system resources or the resources from the main computer that's accessing the drivers?


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Offline halfelite

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1303 on: May 04, 2014, 11:06:27 PM »
If you are only using it for say storage and nothing else. It takes very little cpu resources. It is heavy in DISK I/O and ram usage depending if you use freenas. But other then that not much you only get into resources when you start adding torrent clients and video transcoders like plesk and things to it.

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1304 on: May 04, 2014, 11:20:30 PM »
If you are only using it for say storage and nothing else. It takes very little cpu resources. It is heavy in DISK I/O and ram usage depending if you use freenas. But other then that not much you only get into resources when you start adding torrent clients and video transcoders like plesk and things to it.
Yeah, just storage and playing music/anime from it. Transferring to/from files as well. That's it.

I also don't really have a limit on my budget, but obviously I want the best bang for my dollar and meaningful. I think I'll switch back and get the Pentium 3.0Ghz DC with a 6 port SATA connection mobo.

I'm also going to use Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit for OS.


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Offline halfelite

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1305 on: May 05, 2014, 12:14:48 AM »
If you are using this for storage only I would not run windows it just adds extra overhead and cost. things like freenas/unraid do any amazing job and are simple to use kinda just setup and forget it type deals. If you are not comfortable moving to a NIX/bsd based OS that is understandable then I suggest looking at running flexraid on top of windows it will make your storage life easier in the long run for when you want to expand and keep data protection over the stock windows setup using spanning or JBOD.

once you get into 4+ drives in a pool its a good idea to move to raid5 to have that extra layer of security that you can lose one drive and not lose everything.

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1306 on: May 05, 2014, 12:38:53 AM »
If you are using this for storage only I would not run windows it just adds extra overhead and cost. things like freenas/unraid do any amazing job and are simple to use kinda just setup and forget it type deals. If you are not comfortable moving to a NIX/bsd based OS that is understandable then I suggest looking at running flexraid on top of windows it will make your storage life easier in the long run for when you want to expand and keep data protection over the stock windows setup using spanning or JBOD.

once you get into 4+ drives in a pool its a good idea to move to raid5 to have that extra layer of security that you can lose one drive and not lose everything.
Oh hmm ... not sure if I want that. But I know it would safeguard my anime!!!

The reason why I want to install Windows is because if I need to install the a software or whatever for the addon card it would be easy. But with FREENAS8 I wouldn't know how to do that shit ...


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Offline halfelite

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1307 on: May 05, 2014, 01:11:56 AM »
most main brands will be support. With no manual installation of anything.

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1308 on: May 05, 2014, 01:19:53 AM »
most main brands will be support. With no manual installation of anything.
I'm talking about the software. Would FREENAS have issues? I mean, I'll try it first but I hope the addon card would work without further work.


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Offline halfelite

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1309 on: May 05, 2014, 02:18:27 AM »
most main brands will be support. With no manual installation of anything.
I'm talking about the software. Would FREENAS have issues? I mean, I'll try it first but I hope the addon card would work without further work.

Yes thats what I mean any mainstream products are supported out of the box. Linux is no longer the sit and take hours to get hardware working. most are plug and play same as windows.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1310 on: May 05, 2014, 08:57:24 AM »
i'm gonna bump this question and add a few more notes.

if anyone could answer this question of mine though i'd greatly appreciate it.

on a side note hearing some further news with the haswell refresh, seems like they'll be improving overclockability to an extent.
http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/intel_devils_canyon_and_pentium_k_launch_june_2nd_2014.html

this makes me wonder though, how would a dual-core haswell pentium @ 5Ghz compare to a hawell i3 @ 3.5Ghz.
even if you factor in HT its still barely slower in multi-threaded workloads, and thats without considering the part that HT doesn't scale well enough like real cores.

but coming from my i3-2100 (sandybridge @ 3.1Ghz) i wonder if its a downgrade, its worth considering for the massive single-threaded performance boost.
[100% = base sandy @ 3.1Ghz]
100% x 1.1(ivy) x 1.1 (haswell) = 121% x ( 5.0Ghz / 3.1Ghz ) = 195% or 95% faster in single-threaded performance.
if taking out HT means decreasing the overall multi-threaded performance by 33%(1/3) its still gonna be 30% faster.
but for a worst case, its getting little to no performance improvements in multi-thread workloads.

edit: adding one more question, if a dual-core has twice the single-threaded performance of a quad-core, wouldn't it perform identical in multi-threaded as well?
e.g. lets say a "dual-core haswell @ 5Ghz [vs] quad-core haswell @ 2.5Ghz"
its actually similar to "intel i5 4core [vs] AMD FX 8core" in a sense of "fast 2core [vs] slow 4core"

theoretically a 5Ghz dual core should perform equal to or faster than 2.5Ghz quad core on multi-threaded workloads, simply because Ghz scales better than more cores.

the threads on the faster core can be executed twice as fast than those on the slower quad core, even if you parallelize the apps the threads still takes more time to finish than the faster cores.
e.g. 5Ghz dual core finishes two threads in 10seconds, while 2.5Ghz quad core finishes four threads in 20seconds, the time it takes to finish is still long even though it did twice more work than the dual core.
now if you factor in multi-threading overhead, which is the main deficiency of core scaling, a quad core might even do worse because threads doesn't finish evenly.



but this is not always the case, if you think of the cores as pipes, threads would form a queue line which means apps takes turns to get processed.
if you put it in direct relation, a single pipe would have twice as long line than having two pipes, which means the stall-rate is higher for the single pipe.
even if the single pipe can execute the queue twice faster than having two slower pipes, if one app stalls or the system interrupts it affects the whole line.

now, imagine each thread taking up 1ms on the line's execution time, if the pipe had 100threads in line(including system), it'd take 100ms for the last thread to get executed.
if you think about it from a different perspective, that 100ms would've felt like a "hang" or "stutter", this is without factoring in stalls and interrupts.
but if you had twice as many pipes, you can split the line into two groups of 50ms instead, which minimizes the perceived hangs or stutter.
this is the reason why multi-tasking benefits a lot more from having more cores than having faster cores.



notes: stalls happens when CPU needs to fetch data from ram,ssd,hdd or anywhere else before starting thread execution.
another cause would be when cache trashes it's current fetched data and collects fresh new data from ram.
while system interrupts... i'm not sure what they're exactly for but i remember system I/O and user interaction is one of the main cause of system interrupts.

now for the main question though, since an i3 isn't exactly a quad-core, i'd expect that a dual-core running at a much faster rate should outperform it in all cases, unless hyper threading does have that much of an impact in performance.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 11:23:06 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1311 on: May 05, 2014, 06:11:54 PM »
Yeah but I still gotta fork out about 130 to 200 USD. I mean its going to sit there as a NAS and nothing else. If you guys are saying its not going to work at all, even during playback and transferring files in and out then how much money would I be saving monthly on electricity versus a haswell DC Pentium or i3 haswell hyperthreaded.


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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1312 on: May 05, 2014, 06:30:03 PM »
objectively i estimate a 10drive+Q9550 to consume about 270watts during operation, while a 10drive+i3haswell around 200watts, petium at 170watts.

the drives themselves would take about 8watts each during idle spin, 10~15watts during write but i doubt all 10drives will do write at the same time.
that makes the drives consume about 80~120watts by themselves. the Q9550 at 150watts, i3 at 80watts and pentium at 50watts.

PS: why not build the NAS first on the Q9550? you could easily swap the board and cpu later on if you find it lacking.

edit: speaking of file accesses, you could gang two NICs onto the router.
although the overall throughput will still be limited by the one accessing the NAS.
the overall bandwidth will make it so that two people can access it at the same time without causing a bottleneck congestion.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 06:35:40 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1313 on: May 05, 2014, 07:23:16 PM »
Lol, what? Are you saying that one person can access NAS at a time? So you can't have three devices access NAS at the same time? Please clarify and keep it in a way of where it makes sense to dummy people like myself!


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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1314 on: May 05, 2014, 07:34:10 PM »
no you misunderstood, any number of person can access the NAS at a time, the problem is how would you split 1gbps amongst those users?
doubling the 1gbps would at least reduce the perceived congestion by half.

i mean, imagine if someone was streaming movies, and another writing large libraries of series, then a 3rd user copying some movies off the NAS.

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Offline halfelite

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1315 on: May 05, 2014, 07:43:53 PM »
no you misunderstood, any number of person can access the NAS at a time, the problem is how would you split 1gbps amongst those users?
doubling the 1gbps would at least reduce the perceived congestion by half.

i mean, imagine if someone was streaming movies, and another writing large libraries of series, then a 3rd user copying some movies off the NAS.

one gigabit connection is plenty for all of that. because there is no dedicated hardware raid controller he will hit a bottle neck of I/o operations before hitting the connection bottle

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1316 on: May 05, 2014, 10:39:34 PM »
no you misunderstood, any number of person can access the NAS at a time, the problem is how would you split 1gbps amongst those users?
doubling the 1gbps would at least reduce the perceived congestion by half.

i mean, imagine if someone was streaming movies, and another writing large libraries of series, then a 3rd user copying some movies off the NAS.

one gigabit connection is plenty for all of that. because there is no dedicated hardware raid controller he will hit a bottle neck of I/o operations before hitting the connection bottle
Yea I see where Kita is coming from. Though if you think about it 1GB is more than enough for anime streaming. I'm getting that AC900 Linksys router so that's going to pretty much take care of everything for me.


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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1317 on: May 06, 2014, 12:52:27 PM »
it is technically possible though, 1gbps is roughly 128MB/s minus overhead which is about 120MB/s, and drive read/write speeds can easily reach an average of 80MB/s.
so unless the users are accessing the same drive you can end up saturating the 1gbps line.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:56:53 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1318 on: May 06, 2014, 02:12:19 PM »
it is technically possible though, 1gbps is roughly 128MB/s minus overhead which is about 120MB/s, and drive read/write speeds can easily reach an average of 80MB/s.
so unless the users are accessing the same drive you can end up saturating the 1gbps line.
about 2 ppl on average. So even if were watching 1080p anime BDS that still wouldn't hit 25mbs according to kurshi.


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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Computer Parts - what's coming to the market?
« Reply #1319 on: May 06, 2014, 02:37:43 PM »
yeah it wouldn't technically even congest with one doing file transfers while another is streaming movies.
but it'll show once two or more do file transfers at once, although i wonder if you could setup a QoS to prioritize streaming over everything else.

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