Author Topic: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions  (Read 47015 times)

Offline Honemi

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1540 on: August 15, 2014, 08:25:10 PM »
I guess that's true. No need to follow AMD on the whole TrueAudio thing and such.

Looking at the pricing at the pricing of Crucial's DDR4 products, it looks like DDR4 is "only" going to have a ~$40-$50 USD premium which isn't too bad. Of course, NewEgg tend to sell DDR3 RAM at a discount (like right now), so the actual difference could be as high as $60 assuming similar effective clock rates.

But yeah, you're right. A lot of people would probably appreciate the option of not having to buy into more expensive RAM while also enjoying a more modern processor.

Also, Haswell-E's release date.

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1541 on: August 15, 2014, 08:30:07 PM »
The prices are still over-kill for the 6-core and 8-core. Aren't they going to reduce the price at some point within next year? I'm talking like 20-40% off.


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Online kitamesume

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1542 on: August 15, 2014, 10:49:46 PM »
The prices are still over-kill for the 6-core and 8-core. Aren't they going to reduce the price at some point within next year? I'm talking like 20-40% off.
the i7-5820K is expensive? at $350~$450? considering that an i7-4770K costs $325 brandnew?

"Core i7-5820K, which will be a six-core chip. Its other specs are unclear. It is expected to be priced between $350 and $450."

note: typo on their part, they wrote it 4820K which is an ivy-E.

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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1543 on: August 15, 2014, 10:57:10 PM »
The prices are still over-kill for the 6-core and 8-core. Aren't they going to reduce the price at some point within next year? I'm talking like 20-40% off.
the i7-5820K is expensive? at $350~$450? considering that an i7-4770K costs $325 brandnew?

"Core i7-5820K, which will be a six-core chip. Its other specs are unclear. It is expected to be priced between $350 and $450."

note: typo on their part, they wrote it 4820K which is an ivy-E.
Copying off the context:

Intel's Core i7 "Haswell-E" processor lineup will include three parts, two six-core, and one eight-core. Leading the pack will be the Core i7-5960X, featuring eight cores based on the "Haswell" micro-architecture, with HyperThreading enabling 16 logical CPUs; a staggering 20 MB of shared L3 cache, and 3.00 GHz clock speed. It will command a four-figure price. Next up, is the Core i7-5930K, featuring six cores, HyperThreading enabling 12 logical CPUs, 15 MB of shared L3 cache, and 3.50 GHz clocks. This chip will be priced anywhere between $500 and $750. The most affordable chip will be the Core i7-4820K, which will be a six-core chip. Its other specs are unclear. It is expected to be priced between $350 and $450.

I was referring to the 5930K. But now I see the 4820K and the 'six-core chip' right after it kinda skipped my eyes. Yeah that's actually a good price for 6-core HT.

I like the 5930K though. The 5960X is insane but 4-figure numbers is a bit too much.

Edit -- 4K Asus Monitor 60Hz @ 650 USD.

Man that's one of the best deals on the market right now and it is 28" ...

Here are the features:


    See every detail in 28-inch true 4K display with 3840 x 2160 UHD resolution, 157 pixels per inch, and real 10-bit color
    Get the fastest 4K experience possible with 1ms GTG response time and 60Hz refresh rate
    Connect to everything you own with HDMI, HDMI/MHL, and DisplayPort
    Adjust for maximum comfort with ergonomic tilt, swivel, pivot and height adjustments plus wall-mount capability

Hmm.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 09:31:07 PM by Tatsujin »


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Offline Honemi

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1544 on: August 19, 2014, 09:15:21 PM »
Make sure your graphics card has DP 1.2(a), then.

Also, that's a TN panel. I know how much people hate those. If you still want it, check out this OCN thread. Samsung offered a similar monitor detailed here. And Christ, what is with these high-end monitors and not being VESA compliant?

Offline Mistgun_Zero

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1545 on: August 20, 2014, 09:58:24 AM »
Yup, it's a TN panel, and they seriously are not worth it, unless you don't move your head more than an inch from the center of the screen. And all those TN panels are made by Samsung, so of course, Samsung offered it before.

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1546 on: August 20, 2014, 11:33:50 AM »
TN is decent, imho its not like its completely garbage, a calibrated TN is as good as a calibrated IPS in terms of color accuracy and overall picture quality.
the only difference with it is that TN has a narrow viewing angle and its not like you'd be putting your monitor anywhere else other than right in front of you.



an inch is an exaggeration, you still have 45degrees(+35/-10) of vertical viewing angle and 160degrees(+80/-80) of horizontal viewing angle.
at 1meter distance thats 0.83meter vertical and 11.4meter horizontal, note that horizontal viewing angles isn't much of an issue.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/how-lcd-makers-lie-to-you-about-viewing-angles/930

that means if you sit properly you wouldn't perceive much color shifts.
and if you slouch often then its advisable to place the monitor in a way that when seated upright your eye level is at the top part of the screen.
this would look as if you're looking slightly down when viewing upright and looking straight while slouching.

PS: and the further away you are from the screen the less obvious the color shift is, and after a certain distance there'd be almost no color shifts perceivable.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 12:01:23 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline kureshii

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1547 on: August 20, 2014, 03:48:25 PM »
a calibrated TN is as good as a calibrated IPS in terms of color accuracy and overall picture quality.

It's not. Most TN panels have sub-sRGB gamut coverage; many may advertise a "100% sRGB gamut volume", but this is not the same as 100% sRGB coverage. Because of display inaccuracies, the gamut of these monitors do not overlap sRGB very well, hence they actually end up with <<100% sRGB coverage. It is the rare TN panel that actually has sRGB coverage, and at the prices that those go for, one would wonder "why not IPS?"

Of course, the same thing applies to some OLED and IPS panels as well (especially in the mobile market...), but this is much more of an issue with TN panels, because of the extreme polarisation angles.

That said, the poor viewing angles are due to a poor selection of polariser, and not usually from a poor panel. So you can have TN panels that actually have pretty decent viewing angles, even vertically (e.g. the non-Retina MBPs and MBAs), and from reviews this seems to be one of those better-viewing-angle TN monitors (one would hope so, at $649...). But IPS would definitely still have superior viewing angles even to these.

The question here is, how important is colour accuracy and sRGB coverage to you? Are you attempting to use this for semi-pro graphics work, or just for gaming/office-multitasking? Not everyone absolutely has to have a 4K IPS panel, and early adopters who are willing to forego the colour quality for improved productivity should have no qualms jumping for this.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 03:49:59 PM by kureshii »

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1548 on: August 20, 2014, 04:40:14 PM »
i see, i had thought that the paper specs and "guaranteed" features had been as is or accurate, hadn't noticed those.
and if i remember correctly, LED backlighting doesn't have full RGB coverage either, something about them having poor color rendering index.

but if we'd compare it theoretically, how much % the difference in sRGB coverage would TN and IPS have? is it something like 92%sRGB TN while 100%sRGB IPS?
i'm fairly sure above 80%sRGB is reasonably good for general purpose though, well maybe not for professional photo and video editing.
but those sort of users would've had the money to grab a better screen to begin with, otherwise they'd have to live with compromises.

edit: i'm still in favor for 16:10, the extra vertical space does seem to make doing things a bit easier, i wonder if they'd make an affordable 3840×2400 monitor.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 04:49:33 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Honemi

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1549 on: August 20, 2014, 06:06:58 PM »
According to two U28D590D reviews (TFT Central and PCMonitors.Info), the color space is pretty good. It looks to cover the vast majority of the sRGB (near ~96% I think). Prad.De's review is behind a paywall, but they would probably have the approximate sRGB coverage posted.

Personally, I thought the main problem with TN (IQ-wise) is that most panels can't even do native 8-Bit Color Depth and use 6-Bit Color Depth + Frame Rate Control.  That plus generally subpar color space coverage, shitty overdrive mechanisms (not limited to TN but a bigger problem for cheaper TN than cheaper IPS, I think), and of course those shitty viewing angles. Really low quality TN panels experience massive amount of color and contrast shift at the slightest movement. They're also frequently improperly calibrated. Add that to their oft wonky color space coverage, and you get a frequently terrible image quality with washed out (or horribly oversaturated colors). I'm pretty sure that most decent (?) TN panels also have shit-tier black levels and offer a subpar contrast ratio because of that while most decent IPS/PLS panels offers decent black levels and a good contrast ratio.

I do think that because TN panels are often paired with shitty components they are viewed as slightly worse than they really are, but not all of their reputation is undeserved. Anyway, those two reviews should give you an idea about the quality of those 28" 4K UHD panels.

Offline kureshii

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1550 on: August 21, 2014, 01:22:12 PM »
but if we'd compare it theoretically, how much % the difference in sRGB coverage would TN and IPS have? is it something like 92%sRGB TN while 100%sRGB IPS?
i'm fairly sure above 80%sRGB is reasonably good for general purpose though, well maybe not for professional photo and video editing.
You can take a look at the reviews of the monitor. This is from PG278Q, the G-Sync TN version. PB278 is the IPS version, PB278Q is the PLS version. You can talk theoretical performance till the cows come home, at the end of the day performance (both objective and subjective) trumps all paper-talk.

Do note that although it is TN, the viewing angles are pretty good (for TN), and the panel is 8-bit, not 6-bit+FRC. Still, I wonder how many people would be hoodwinked by the promises of "10-bit colour" on Newegg and other sites; the only thing that is 10-bit is the internal processing.

Gamut space is usually represented in 3D, like this:

Hence the term "gamut volume" (vertical axis represents brightness). But eh, pretty hard to see huh. Techreport uses a different representation, the CIE xyY diagram, which folds the z-axis in (it can be recalculated again from x- and y-values).

I'm showing uncalibrated (i.e. out-of-the-box results here, because c'mon let's not kid ourselves, how many of you actually calibrate your monitors even with a basic colour calibrator huh).

The gray triangle is sRGB colour space, the white triangle is the monitor colour space. The size (area) of the triangle is the gamut volume, the range of RGB colours is represented by the corners. If the white triangle is larger than the gray, that is >100% sRGB gamut volume. If the white triangle completely covers the gray triangle, that is 100% sRGB gamut coverage.

PG278Q (TN)


PB278 (IPS)


PB278Q (PLS)


As you can see, both the TN and IPS panels have >100% sRGB gamut volume, but <100% sRGB coverage. The LED backlight doesn't seem to be able to cover B entirely, causing purpling at the corner. At least the IPS panel jsut manages to cover the G corner, while the TN misses both Band G (and actually R slightly too).

Before you go out and boycott PLS panels, do keep in mind that these charts are not typical of their respective panel technologies. In particular, in terms of colour accuracy, the PB278 is nowhere near incumbent affordable-consumer 27" monitors like the U2713HM (look at the Delta E charts, those represent deviations from calibration points. The lower the better.) So don't think of IPS as a panacea to colour accuracy, calibration and panel quality are still important. I hope most people buy cheap IPS panels knowing that all they're buying is better viewing angles and hopefully full 8-bit colour, but not necessarily factory calibration.

For general purpose (although I never really understand what people mean by "general purpose", does that mean Facebook?), I would guess that anything better than crappy TN panel would suffice?

In any case, this is still better than what we get in the smartphone scene; just look at the LG G3's screen performance:

LG G3


Colour points are so obviously skewed for increased saturation, it's not even funny. As much as we all like to hate on Apple, their screens (smartphone and tablet) are hands-down the best factory-calibrated screens one can get in retail. Fortunately, Samsung finally seems to be wisening up (or should I say maturing?)

Samsung S5
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 01:26:10 PM by kureshii »

Offline Honemi

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1551 on: August 22, 2014, 01:19:26 AM »
There're two articles detailing the rise and fall of AMD. I find them interesting as it tells of some internal problems I never heard about. I just thought the CEO was stuffing his pockets at the company's detriment while Intel was engaged in some anti-competitive business. Turns out that there is a little more to their tale. Part 1 & Part 2.

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1552 on: August 26, 2014, 11:21:23 PM »
So I'm really happy with my NAS. It's very fast, reliable and I can do a lot on it. Very easy to access and I've finally managed to make any outsider users (obviously they need pass for router, then user/pass to access NAS) that they can only "read" and I'll be the only one to "read/write".

I want to build me another one with as much as 7 to 10 internal bay slots ... obviously the issue is always the case. I haven't found some luck about this one. I also don't have room to place it and I looked at those "rackmounts" too. My best option is those mini boxes that feature a lot of internal bays. What do you guys think?


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Offline halfelite

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1553 on: August 27, 2014, 02:41:13 AM »
for the price you cant beat the 4u norco cases. they are 79$ I think and can hold 10 drives something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219030&cm_re=norco-_-11-219-030-_-Product

Just dont rack mount it. you can either let it sit flat on the ground or unscrew the ears and put it on its side.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 02:43:07 AM by halfelite »

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1554 on: August 27, 2014, 08:09:07 AM »
for the price you cant beat the 4u norco cases. they are 79$ I think and can hold 10 drives something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219030&cm_re=norco-_-11-219-030-_-Product

Just dont rack mount it. you can either let it sit flat on the ground or unscrew the ears and put it on its side.

how about an upright mount? similar to wall mount though not necessarily so.
using slotted angular bars it should be cheap and easy to make a rack for it, with the backplate ports on the underside.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 08:25:42 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline halfelite

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1555 on: August 27, 2014, 05:53:51 PM »
Interesting idea. Never thought to go vertical with one. I wonder if you rotate the fans to suck the cool from the bottom and blow the hot out the top.

Offline xShadow

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1556 on: August 29, 2014, 08:48:50 AM »
I got my new PG278Q. Still working on my impressions of it.


As for the mouse no real complaints. Still sitting at 3/5 battery (the ones that it came with) according to it. And that's since I got it. No replacements. The battery life is incredibly long. I have not noticed any gaming performance problems that I can really attribute to it either.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:56:17 AM by xShadow »

Cute, huh?

Online kitamesume

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1557 on: August 29, 2014, 09:22:14 AM »
Interesting idea. Never thought to go vertical with one. I wonder if you rotate the fans to suck the cool from the bottom and blow the hot out the top.
i had thought about that strategy, the only bad thing about it is that you're blowing hot-air onto the HDDs.

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Offline Honemi

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1558 on: August 30, 2014, 01:12:56 AM »
A bunch of reviews for the Haswell-E processors are out. Spoilers: 8 cores are nice, but it is hampered a bit by its low 3/3.5GHz frequency. It does overclock nice, though.

AnandTech, TechReport, PCPerspective, and others . . .

There are also motherboard reviews for the X99 chipset motherboards.

Here's some AnandTech article about Intel's 14nm processes.



Corsair has also released their Graphite 380T, but that has been overshadowed.

Online kitamesume

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Re: Future Computer Parts / General Computer Discussions
« Reply #1559 on: August 30, 2014, 08:44:59 AM »
from what you've linked DDR4 seems to have it's latency and throughput boosted by a large margin in comparison to DDR3.

and theres the large latency decrease that had caused a noticable performance improvement, and this is with a wooping CL15 latency settings, imagine if DDR4 had matched 2133MhzCL11-DDR3.
this hints to the part that RAM is a potential bottleneck, even though the bandwidth is sufficient the latency isn't low enough for maximum performance.
to rule out the IPC increase, it shouldn't cause much difference when decreasing clocks.

we need more DDR4 tests, one that focuses on RAM, like whether minimum framerate is affected by RAM and does having a low-latency RAM decrease multitasking stutters.
edit: and we also need some DDR4 tests that looks into the beneficial parts of switching from multi-drop bus to point-to-point bus.



i found a good write-up for DDR3, for reference.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/memory/2008/02/10/the_secrets_of_pc_memory_part_4/1



i wonder why ASUS hadn't thought of integrating a xonar sound processor in their tablets and laptops, even going as far as using 3rd-party mediocre sound processors.
if ASUS were to make a 10" tablet with a xonar chip, using either a cherrytrail(next gen atom) or a celeron cpu in it i'd buy it if it was priced around $600.

a few more weeks till cherrytrail's official release, i hope they'd be as interesting as intel have said.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 05:41:49 PM by kitamesume »

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