Author Topic: 2012 US Presidential Election (Read 14952 times)

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #140 on:** October 06, 2012, 08:15:38 PM »

^ Is your name Julio?

jaybug · « **Reply #141 on:** October 07, 2012, 05:36:45 PM »

I wish someone would take the president to task for his payroll tax cut, which costs people later their retirement benefits.

Saved the US? Any idiot president should be able to do that, but there is a difference between America not being in another Great Depression, and America having an economic boom. Obama will at best have US in a French malaise, forever.

Not that Romney will be able to do much better, as long as he is unwilling to fight congress. Obama needed to fight Pelosi and Reid instead of going along with every stupid policy they could dream up, especially as they didn't even know what they were passing, until after the bills were passed.

America is still one of the fastest growing countries on the planet. To have US in economic malaise, will actually feel more like a permanent recession, or depression because of the increasing population. 8% unemployment becomes a very large number when you account for the increase in population. 8% of 100 million is 8 million, 8% of 400 million is 32 million. Still 8%, but a 400% increase from the previous mark.

I did especially like the remark Romney alluded to senator Coburn's Back in Black report, to consolidate government services to reduce the overhead costs of government, so that more people can be served with the same level of federal spending. Or could potentially survive budgetary cuts without sacrificing services as badly when there are so many redundant agencies paralleling jobs.

Which is a large part of why I think Romney picked Ryan.

vicious796 · « **Reply #142 on:** October 12, 2012, 12:47:26 PM »

Missed the VP debate last night, watching now at http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/debates/vice-presidential-debate though. So far, some 15 minutes in, Biden is being Biden and it's quite comical. He's good, don't misunderstand that as me saying he's flunking, but you'd think he'd... you know... tighten up a bit and be more serious on the national stage.

Lord of Fire · « **Reply #143 on:** October 12, 2012, 05:40:54 PM »

Quote from: vicious796 on October 12, 2012, 12:47:26 PM

Missed the VP debate last night, watching now at http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/debates/vice-presidential-debate though. So far, some 15 minutes in, Biden is being Biden and it's quite comical. He's good, don't misunderstand that as me saying he's flunking, but you'd think he'd... you know... tighten up a bit and be more serious on the national stage.

I think it's just him being unable to take a guy who spouts nonsense like 'forced rape' and then flip-flops about his stance on abortion, among other things, seriously. Can't say I blame him, and it's at least a step up from Obama's passiveness in his debate.

Now, if Obama finds a way to be both assertive and counter Romney's ramblings, he'll have a better chance at winning his next debate and might score a bit better in the polls (though how much they truly make a difference is questionable).

xfreidax · « **Reply #144 on:** October 12, 2012, 05:57:40 PM »

Didn't Romney manage to level with Obama on various polls based on his first debate performance?

There seems to be a very perceivable shift from what I've been observing. At least in the reporting.

He went from dead and buried with the LOL47% comment to now we have a contest.

vicious796 · « **Reply #145 on:** October 12, 2012, 06:21:17 PM »

Quote from: xfreidax on October 12, 2012, 05:57:40 PM

Didn't Romney manage to level with Obama on various polls based on his first debate performance?

There seems to be a very perceivable shift from what I've been observing. At least in the reporting.

He went from dead and buried with the LOL47% comment to now we have a contest.

The polls represent the entire nation's undecided voters which, in all honesty, don't really decide the debate. There's only a dozen or so states that aren't already spoken for and Obama only has to win 3-4 of them in order to get the electoral votes needed to win. Let's be clear - Romney still doesn't have a chance. He's not winning Virginia or Ohio which will essentially be the nails in the coffin for him.

Ixarku · « **Reply #146 on:** October 12, 2012, 06:51:30 PM »

Jon Stewart also went on at length about the unreliability of the various polls, since apparently some of them show Mitt in the lead, others show Obama in the lead, and still others show them to be virtually tied.

I still think it's a foregone conclusion that Obama is going to win it. As contraversial a President as he is, it's sad that Romney is the best the opposition party could come up with.

Nikkoru · « **Reply #147 on:** October 12, 2012, 08:03:26 PM »

Romney has, at least with that debate, probably prevented himself from becoming a totally under-performing candidate. What Obama did was further weaken the prospects for other Democratic candidates who conceivably have a chance in November. Which -- given the politics of the last two years -- does not bode well for Obama's next term.

jaybug · « **Reply #148 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:37:54 AM »

I believe the Biden act was an act. Meant to be disparaging and demeaning to the Romney/Ryan ticket. But as Ryan didn't cave, I don't think it worked as well as he hoped. Unless Biden thought he was on the old CNN Crossfire show, and thought he was supposed to yell over anyone else who was talking.

Maybe Ryan was too respectful of the office, but there were a couple of places I thought he could have interjected something to offset Biden's 'stuff'.

Soryon · « **Reply #149 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:48:29 AM »

Quote from: Lord of Fire on October 12, 2012, 05:40:54 PM

I think it's just him being unable to take a guy who spouts nonsense like 'forced rape' and then flip-flops about his stance on abortion, among other things, seriously. Can't say I blame him, and it's at least a step up from Obama's passiveness in his debate.

I think its not that he changed his personal views so much as that he is conforming to Romney as his head honcho. He is the VICE. Hes has said in the past that he has to back him even if its not the exact same view that he has. Its not a flip flop.

Actually, I should stfu. I havent even watched the VP debate yet even tho I have it recorded. My statement was regarding things in the past. If he said something that implied he actually changed his personal opinion, rather then simply saying that he would go with Romney view, then its not a big deal.

Anyway- For this election, to quote South Park- Is between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMGu4pbivkY

donald1 · « **Reply #150 on:** October 14, 2012, 12:08:57 PM »

i think romney should win. obama has done a very unsatisfactory job running the country. his priorities are not where they should be. obama also racked up waaaaaaay too much national debt. the deficit is out of control.

zherok · « **Reply #151 on:** October 14, 2012, 02:51:04 PM »

Quote from: jaybug on October 14, 2012, 11:37:54 AM

I don't think it worked as well as he hoped.

Maybe, but the focus on decorum over substance is meaningless anyway.

Ryan doubled down on the "I can't tell how we want our optimistic plan to work, but trust us, it's better than anything that Obama has or wants to do, even if at times often remarkably similar" strategy. As much as they'd like the entire election to be about how much we collectively hate Obama, it'd be nice to have some actual specifics for a change.

That's not to say Biden was perfect by any means, but each debate seems to reveal less about what the specifics of what a Romney presidency would actually do (it doesn't hurt that Romney has been on nearly every side of every major issue), only how amazing everything will be merely by electing him.

Burkingam · « **Reply #152 on:** October 14, 2012, 03:42:53 PM »

Quote from: donald1 on October 14, 2012, 12:08:57 PM

i think romney should win. obama has done a very unsatisfactory job running the country. his priorities are not where they should be. obama also racked up waaaaaaay too much national debt. the deficit is out of control.

Obama is a Keynesian, just like Clinton was. Keynesians think that when the economy is going bad the government needs to spend a lot of money to fight the recession while when it's going well we must raise the taxes to pay of the debt.

By opposition, fiscal conservatives thing when we have a recession we have to cut the taxes to save the economy and when everything is going well we have to cut the taxes because we don't need money and the best way to help the poors is to cut the taxes for the riches and when there is a deficit cutting taxes on the rich will raise tax revenue so we can fight it and also if your sammitch doesn't taste good it's because of all those damn taxes...

megido-rev.M · « **Reply #153 on:** October 14, 2012, 04:32:31 PM »

Quote from: donald1 on October 14, 2012, 12:08:57 PM

i think romney should win. obama has done a very unsatisfactory job running the country. his priorities are not where they should be. obama also racked up waaaaaaay too much national debt. the deficit is out of control.

O.o Surely you haven't forgotten the lowered tax rates, unpaid wars, and subsequent recession all before this.

donald1 · « **Reply #154 on:** October 14, 2012, 04:38:32 PM »

Quote from: megido-rev.M on October 14, 2012, 04:32:31 PM

Quote from: donald1 on October 14, 2012, 12:08:57 PM
i think romney should win. obama has done a very unsatisfactory job running the country. his priorities are not where they should be. obama also racked up waaaaaaay too much national debt. the deficit is out of control.

O.o Surely you haven't forgotten the lowered tax rates, unpaid wars, and subsequent recession all before this.

no, i have not. but i also do not like obama's idea of a healthcare plan. i don't want to be forced into buying something i don't want or face a fine. that is not cool. and don't think it'll stop there. what else will you be forced to buy just cuz someone thinks its a good idea? buy this or pay a penalty is what it comes down to.

Soryon · « **Reply #155 on:** October 14, 2012, 05:23:28 PM »

gib me a pres who will raise taxes and stop enabling ppl to rely on social programs.

Ixarku · « **Reply #156 on:** October 14, 2012, 05:29:50 PM »

Quote from: donald1 on October 14, 2012, 04:38:32 PM

no, i have not. but i also do not like obama's idea of a healthcare plan. i don't want to be forced into buying something i don't want or face a fine. that is not cool. and don't think it'll stop there. what else will you be forced to buy just cuz someone thinks its a good idea? buy this or pay a penalty is what it comes down to.

It's been said before, but it bears repeating, that local and state governments force you to buy stuff all the time. If you want to drive, you have to pay for a license, and at least in my state, in most circumstances, you have to buy a certain amount of auto insurance. You have to pay the local government for permits & inspections to do certain improvements and upgrades to your own home. If you buy a house and finance it and don't pay at least 20% of the purchase price, you are required to purchase PMI (private mortgage insurance) -- which insures the loan itself, not the house. Talk about a worthless policy from a consumer standpoint.

So, yeah, I never bought the idea that it was such a horrible thing for the federal government to require consumers to purchase something, considering how much crap the other levels of government have their hands in.

Burkingam · « **Reply #157 on:** October 14, 2012, 05:48:07 PM »

I agree that it kinda sucks but it's also a rational policies. The problem is that if you don't pay for an insurance and you get hit by a car, they can't take the time to check that you are insured before they save your life and so if you don't have a full bank account and you don't have an insurance they can charge you for it so the other patients end up paying instead. A better solution would be universal healthcare but the right would never allow it, because you know, saving the life of a poor is communism.

pantywraith · « **Reply #158 on:** October 14, 2012, 05:51:01 PM »

Quote from: donald1 on October 14, 2012, 12:08:57 PM

i think romney should win. obama has done a very unsatisfactory job running the country. his priorities are not where they should be. obama also racked up waaaaaaay too much national debt. the deficit is out of control.

So because Mr. Obama did not fix the problems the GOP left him with quickly enough we should vote the GOP back in?

That is very logical...

Most of the national Debt was created by GOP administrations. In fact the last time we were on the path to reducing that debt the GOP gave out the largest tax cut to the wealthiest people in history then went in to two unfunded wars, at least one of which was done under totally false pretenses.

And, you want to put them back in power???

Maybe if the GOP stopped having their number one priority in congress to obstruct all things Mr. Obama is in favor of, he could have done a better job.

Now none of this is to say Mr. Obama is the best or even that I particularly like him. He is far more conservative than I would like, has a piss poor record on human rights, loves to per-compromise with the opposition, then move even more toward their position, is a corporatist stooge, ect...

But, when the only real choice is getting kicked in the balls or kicked in the balls and hit in the back of the head with a bat, I will just take the kicking by its self.

Ixarku · « **Reply #159 on:** October 14, 2012, 06:20:50 PM »

One thing I've seen repeatedly coming from both sides is how much the current mess is the Republicans' fault... or, the Democrats' fault... or GW Bush's fault... or Clinton's fault... or Obama's fault... or, etc etc. I've seen so much of the blame game getting played that I have no fucking idea what the reality is. And I've gotten to the point where I DON'T FUCKING CARE WHO SCREWED UP, FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT. I'm turning to people like Lewis Black, Jon Stewart, and Stephen Colbert as my sanity checks since everything else in this country is going bat-shit insane.