Author Topic: 2012 US Presidential Election  (Read 14950 times)

Offline StealthWar42

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2012, 03:11:49 AM »
Politicians don't get simple arithmetic. The gridlocking will prevent us from putting any kind of actionable, intelligent plan forward, while we continue spending on policies that our government simply isn't agile enough to change/fix. It's quite possible we've passed the fiscal "event horizon" when you consider the political implications. We aren't a technocracy or any other kind of government capable of responding quick enough with math to fix our problems.

Offline Nikkoru

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2012, 03:44:13 AM »
Politicians don't get simple arithmetic. The gridlocking will prevent us from putting any kind of actionable, intelligent plan forward, while we continue spending on policies that our government simply isn't agile enough to change/fix. It's quite possible we've passed the fiscal "event horizon" when you consider the political implications. We aren't a technocracy or any other kind of government capable of responding quick enough with math to fix our problems.

Oh, I think they're intelligent enough to pay people who can do the math. It's the average voter who are arithmophobes, they'd rather hear simplistic platitudes than actually read their plan. Seeing Ryan and Romney assuring they're going to create "lots of jobs" and make the "tough choices" without addressing what that actually means in empirical terms, while the Democrats make dubious but not wholly inaccurate claims of Obama saving millions of jobs with a bright dazzling future to come  What spending are you cutting or taxes are you raising and by how much, and what of the causal relationship between those figures and A, B, or C? Stating it directly, to a degree, as Clinton did was what I was looking for.

I wouldn't trust either to enact their plans, for some "deficits don't matter" while they're in power whatever proclamations of conservatism they make -- but that's harsh reality.
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Offline StealthWar42

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2012, 03:49:20 AM »
You're smart enough to extrapolate what I meant, right? Of course politicians are smart enough to hire people to do the math. Good luck getting anything passed through a D-Whitehouse and an R-Congress and having any of that math make a difference.

Quote
I wouldn't trust either to enact their plans, for some "deficits don't matter" while they're in power whatever proclamations of conservatism they make -- but that's harsh reality.

This was my original point, but I wasn't clear.

Offline Nikkoru

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2012, 05:18:41 AM »
You're smart enough to extrapolate what I meant, right? Of course politicians are smart enough to hire people to do the math. Good luck getting anything passed through a D-Whitehouse and an R-Congress and having any of that math make a difference.

Quote
I wouldn't trust either to enact their plans, for some "deficits don't matter" while they're in power whatever proclamations of conservatism they make -- but that's harsh reality.

This was my original point, but I wasn't clear.

No, I understand what you meant, and you're mostly right. The American political duality may be so intractable that any degree of harmony is simply insufferable. We might have to look fondly upon the days of pragmatists like Gingrich willing to think the unthinkable of conceding ground in one place in order to gain it somewhere else and keep Government functioning. The only reason such an environment can persists, I believe, is because people are too lazy to reason for themselves. To be able and willing to see that 2 + 2 ≠ 5 or 11. The politicians know when their policies are fundamentally unrealistic, there are leagues of statisticians, accountants, and economists keeping tab on the input/output of every current public policy, institution, or program. Countless more capable of accurately predicting the possible effects of future initiatives when accurately described. There are fact checkers for every claim and written records of every statement made in the public political theatre. There are an objective set of facts and measured effects available for anyone interested.

Whenever the Republicans claim obstructiveness is a democratic duty, they say something like "The American people believe in X, Y, and Z" -- that Obamacare is a government takeover of healthcare/ Obama is handing out welfare checks like Santa/ global warming is a hoax perpetrated by money-grubbing scientists/ Obama is an anti-business socialist -- and they do actually believe that. Why? Because they've been massively misinformed repeatedly through mendacious propaganda done on the GOP's behalf where even objective data is questioned by maliciously indoctrinated paranoia. How long did it take for "death panels" to go from the deranged tweets of a syphilitic mind, into the national discourse, all the way to erroneously eliminating funding for end-life care discussions? It's never that "informed experts agree with our position because of these rational arguments -- and here they are", just that "Some people who believe gossip as truth are deluded enough to support our positions".

Yes, partisanship is grid-locking, politicians are bastards, and it's dooming the United States and everyone who's forced to depend upon her. It's only allowed to be like this because voters don't care enough to distinguish fact from fantasy. Electing people who's solutions do not involve magic is a good start to restoring sanity.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 05:21:01 AM by Nikkoru »
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Offline occasional

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2012, 07:15:27 AM »
Obama's win will be of little value if the Democrats don't regain a majority in Congress.

Also, as far as left-right goes, here's a little graph from "The Political Compass"



http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

Finally, here's a little test to find out which candidate best matches your views:

http://www.isidewith.com/

Offline StealthWar42

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2012, 10:12:59 AM »
Electing people who's solutions do not involve magic is a good start to restoring sanity.

Not gonna happen.

Offline vicious796

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2012, 11:38:24 AM »
It really, really hurts my heart to have Clinton rock the stage Wednesday and speak of how "bipartisan" our President has tried to be and how "open and honest" he has been only for President Obama to come out the next night and fuck it up. Clinton showed the US exactly how you can "kill 'em with kindness" and - as he always has - appropriate facts. Were they convenient facts that left out some other inconvenient facts? Of course - they always are. However, he showed the US the right way to go about getting elected and being a President. Obama done fucked it up.

Not only did he use a scorched earth approach, as expected, but some of his key "facts" just don't check out.

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-obama-phantom-peace-dividend-033637499--election.html


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Offline Nikkoru

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2012, 12:23:03 PM »
Plenty of half-truths and mostly true, no outright lies. All this rhetoric we've seen before, I was disappointed personally.
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Offline Monkeyfinger

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2012, 08:12:46 PM »
I was disappointed that Clinton didn't mention what he did with Monica in the oval office.

As much as a political master as Bill Clinton is, I don't think he can rescue baggage boy Obama.
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Offline Ixarku

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2012, 09:00:45 PM »
Finally, here's a little test to find out which candidate best matches your views:

http://www.isidewith.com/

I took that test, and my views matched up the most with Gary Johnson.  So I shared it on my FB page, and my rabidly ultra-conservative aunt responded with, "Obama has GOT to go NOW!"   /facepalm    Sometimes I just hate my damn family.  I told her that if she was going to comment, she should at least take the test and share her results (I didn't add this, but so that the rest of us have something to make fun of.)
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Offline nstgc

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2012, 09:51:50 PM »
http://www.isidewith.com/results/98823253

[edit] I also got Johnson, but I'll still vote for Obama. I don't want Romney winning the same way Bush did (the green party took Gore's votes).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 09:57:01 PM by nstgc »

Offline rathoriel

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2012, 11:36:49 PM »
http://www.isidewith.com/results/99192287
 
edit: i didnt realy look at other views the first time around so I retook and pretty much had the same results
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 11:47:48 PM by rathoriel »

[16:59:46] <+xgraphy> youure a fuck troll

Offline Burkingam

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2012, 11:52:56 PM »
http://www.isidewith.com/results/99204183

Greens again, eh? That's... interesting.
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Offline StealthWar42

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2012, 12:30:31 AM »
http://www.isidewith.com/results/99204183

Greens again, eh? That's... interesting.

That's what I got too.

So... did anybody actually get Romney or Obama? lol

Offline krumm

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2012, 03:39:11 PM »
http://www.isidewith.com/results/99204183

Greens again, eh? That's... interesting.

That's what I got too.

So... did anybody actually get Romney or Obama? lol

I did but the percents were all high

Offline jaybug

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2012, 09:25:13 PM »
Amazing the results of the isidewith site, when all you do is pinch pennies. But really, there were too many issues that I just don't give a shit about. Which would give me room to bargain were I president, but...thank God I am not. It's one thing for hte blind to lead the blind, but another for the blind to lead the willfully know-it-all ignorant.
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Offline kamuixtv99

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2012, 04:09:40 AM »

Offline Nikkoru

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2012, 04:44:39 AM »
Oh, I'm with the Greens and the Justice party apparently.

http://www.isidewith.com/results/106123316

The questions were a bit bare bones.
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Offline TMRNetShark

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2012, 05:48:22 AM »
Holy damns... and here I was already gonna vote for him.

http://www.isidewith.com/results/106157209

Offline occasional

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2012, 07:52:52 AM »
The "Choose another stance" option has quite a few alternative answers btw.