2012 US Presidential Election

[jaybug]

Burk, I picked up Joseph Stiglitz's new book at the local library, and have been reading about inequality, and how it undermines innovation and all the other good stuff that made America great. And it's got global implications that I haven't read through yet.

But I don't know too many people who think it's a great idea to make the whole world look like a southern plantation of antebellum US. Which is more or less where inequality leads.

[Nikkoru]

But I don't know too many people who think it's a great idea to make the whole world look like a southern plantation of antebellum US. Which is more or less where inequality leads.

The plantation owners were cool with it.

Sure, there weren't too many of 'em, but that's inequality -- and that's who the Romneys and Obamas of the world fight for at the moment.

[Tiffanys]

MSN asked the world how it'd vote, lol check it out...



In other news.... Microsoft has announced it is to close its instant message service Windows Live Messenger in March 2013. Users will be encouraged to move across to Skype which it purchased 18 months ago for $8.5bn.

wtf! I only use MSN... I hate Skype! asldfjkalsfdj#)$*#$@#&$(*#&

[Burkingam]

I'm surprised Canada isn't more on Romney's side considering who's in power right now.

[Tiffanys]

I'm surprised China is with Romney considering he's so Anti-China... He called them cheaters and everything else lol...

[AceHigh]

wtf! I only use MSN... I hate Skype! asldfjkalsfdj#)$*#$@#&$(*#&

Skype is superior, deal with it.

Also, is anyone surprised that the rest of the world would rather have a democrat? Less chance that the world will be bombed after all. On that account ideally I would want Ron Paul to win, because that suits my agenda.

[Nikkoru]

I'd rather see myself elected, that suits my agenda.

[Monkeyfinger]

Heh Burk what you call "caring about people" I call "the government sticking its fingers in everything." You and those like you want the government to carry you from the cradle to the grave. And minorities? We've been sucking up to them for years. How's that working out for the blacks and hispanics? Ever hear the old adage: Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.

And I am well aware that unions file under a different status than religious, but unions are still exempt from federal income taxes. They are funding political campaigns on your dime. Well, at least we can agree that those millionaire pastors should rot in hell. Still doesn't mean religious groups should pay income taxes. Your average pastor probably makes a fair middle class wage if you take housing stipends into account. Plus that still doesn't answer the whole free exercise issue.

And if you understood anything of Keynesian economics you'd stop complaining about the deficit under Obama. When there is an economic crisis increasing the states expenditures despite the deficit is the responsible thing to do and just like fighting the deficit is the responsible thing to do when the economy is going well. If you understood that, then you'd understand why Obama has had the biggest deficits in the middle of an recession and why Clinton had more or less the only equilibrated budgets in the last few decades when the economy was going well. You'd also understand just how incompetent republicans have been, digging the deficit even when the economy is going well and using the recession as an excuse for more austerity.

If you knew anything about Keynesian economics you'd know that there are volumes of literature criticizing it (along with many well known critics like Hayek and Friedman). What we're doing today isn't even Keynesian economics. Hell, Keynes himself warned of too much stimuli. So how much is too much, after another $700 billion can we try something else?

[Burkingam]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.

Yeah I'm well aware of this adage. Now tell me monkeyfinger, how exactly do conservatives teach people to take care of themselves? Because last time I checked, advocating for cheap education is a defining characteristic of the left, not the right. Perhaps the conservative version of the adage would be "If you see a man starving to death on the street, go complain to the police that he's loitering and then brag to your liberal neighbor about how today you fed a men for life."

[jaybug]

Tiffs, I'd like to see that poll to include Ron Paul, and maybe anyone else. Who would they want as our president?

And how many of them would write Charles Manson just for spite?


Burk, I lol with you. The church I grew up in, and about as liberal as you can get and still be a church, used that fish slogan. That is one thing I agree with you. Conservatives are all about saving babies, but as soon as they need school, they would put them in coal mines instead, saying it would build character or some dumb ass thing like that.

[Tiffanys]

Pffft. That saying is SO outdated...

Build a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, you keep him warm for the rest of his life. ^_^

[AceHigh]

Technically true... and sounds like fun. Although wouldn't setting a man on fire initiate a revolution in the country he is present in?

[occasional]

I'm surprised Canada isn't more on Romney's side considering who's in power right now.

Take a look at this graph

(click to show/hide)

Not even Albertans are big fans of Romney.

[Burkingam]

I'm surprised Canada isn't more on Romney's side considering who's in power right now.

Take a look at this graph

(click to show/hide)

Not even Albertans are big fans of Romney.

I still don't get why. What's so better of Harpor's policies compared to Romney's?

[AceHigh]

Different agenda when comparing domestic leader to a foreign one. With foreign leader you mostly look how their policies will affect you, not that country.

[Monkeyfinger]

No no Jaybug you got it all wrong. Conservatives see a starving man and tell him to get a damn job (though there's a good chance he's schizophrenic). And coal mines? Face it, some people just aren't cut out for higher education. I supervise about 50 of them and for the most part they couldn't be happier doing the menial labor the company needs of them. The important thing to remember is that the company provides them with a livable wage, benefits, and a decent work environment. Not the government. And that is the problem with so many democrats. Ask a democrat "who creates jobs?" and the answer will invariably be "the government." With all their contempt for profits and love of regulations and taxes and public sector jobs, America's business environment is becoming more and more hostile.

[Nikkoru]

I'm surprised Canada isn't more on Romney's side considering who's in power right now.

Take a look at this graph

(click to show/hide)

Not even Albertans are big fans of Romney.

I still don't get why. What's so better of Harpor's policies compared to Romney's?

You've got to account for the fact that the majority do not wholeheartedly support the Conservative agenda.-Once you break down Liberals, New Democrats, Bloc, Greens, assorted smaller parties, and people that voted for Harper for reasons less ideological, such as former Progressive Conservatives or the anti-Liberal crowd  -- the figure of Harper partisans is something closer to >30% of the population. Furthermore even within that group, many perceive the Republicans as foolish, Evangelical, isolationist, war-mongers -- especially after Bush -- and don't want to return to the years of 02-08. While some would support the Republican economic philosophy, those issues of global geopolitics and American social values would turn off most self-declared Conservatives. They however, don't perceive Romney's values as being Harper's, partly because Harper did a far better job maintaining a layer of ambivalence about things like abortion and still claims to support social programs like Universal Health Care which they broadly support.

12% seems right -- actually I suspect it's a little smaller than that with regards to sharing Romney's politics -- a percentage of people here wouldn't support Obama for simply being President while Black

I'm most surprised by the number among the Greens, I figured it would be near NDP/Bloc territory and mostly be indicative of that person not knowing what they're responding about.

[Ixarku]

The important thing to remember is that the company provides them with a livable wage, benefits, and a decent work environment. Not the government. And that is the problem with so many democrats. Ask a democrat "who creates jobs?" and the answer will invariably be "the government." With all their contempt for profits and love of regulations and taxes and public sector jobs, America's business environment is becoming more and more hostile.

What kind of Democrats are you talking to?  All of my friends & family who are liberals don't say that at all.  In fact, it's patently ridiculous.  Maybe you're just being facetious, but you're mischaracterizing and over-generalizing.  Liberals, at the least the ones I know, want government to curb the excesses of business -- keep business from deceiving or preying on consumers, prevent the business sector from doing reckless things like crash the economy, taking everyone's retirement accounts & investments with them.  Nobody with half a brain wants to keep businesses from making money, but they do want business to make money in an ethical fashion.  The liberals I know want to actually get something of value from regulations and taxes, not simply tax and regulate because we think people can't tie their shoelaces themselves.  At least a few of us think that government can, in theory, still be a positive influence.  Nobody I know expects the government to owe them a living.
 
I know conservatives/Republicans must get sick of being characterized as a bunch of gun-toting, Bible-thumping, Fox News-watching, abortion clinic-bombing hillbilly yokels.  And liberals/Democrats get tired of being characterized as lazy pot-smoking college dropout business-hating, tax-and-spend, government-loving, living on welfare, Communist Socialist hippies.  Sure there are people that fall into one or more of each of these stereotypes, but how about you do everyone a favor and stop repeating the stereotypes as if they're the only reality that exists.

[Monkeyfinger]

What kind of Democrats are you talking to?  All of my friends & family who are liberals don't say that at all.  In fact, it's patently ridiculous.  Maybe you're just being facetious, but you're mischaracterizing and over-generalizing.  Liberals, at the least the ones I know, want government to curb the excesses of business -- keep business from deceiving or preying on consumers, prevent the business sector from doing reckless things like crash the economy, taking everyone's retirement accounts & investments with them.  Nobody with half a brain wants to keep businesses from making money, but they do want business to make money in an ethical fashion.  The liberals I know want to actually get something of value from regulations and taxes, not simply tax and regulate because we think people can't tie their shoelaces themselves.  At least a few of us think that government can, in theory, still be a positive influence.  Nobody I know expects the government to owe them a living.
 
I know conservatives/Republicans must get sick of being characterized as a bunch of gun-toting, Bible-thumping, Fox News-watching, abortion clinic-bombing hillbilly yokels.  And liberals/Democrats get tired of being characterized as lazy pot-smoking college dropout business-hating, tax-and-spend, government-loving, living on welfare, Communist Socialist hippies.  Sure there are people that fall into one or more of each of these stereotypes, but how about you do everyone a favor and stop repeating the stereotypes as if they're the only reality that exists.

I'll do that when the democrats stop yapping about how they saved GM and how Obama created 2 million jobs.

[Tiffanys]

I thought democrats said it was small business and a prosperous middle class that creates jobs?