HDD Media Player

[Chaosbreaker]

I'm new to the forums, so I thought I'd say hi! Well here goes... Hi!

For the past couple of years I've been downloading series, to burn them on DVD's and watch them on our television with the misses.
Because we like to watch series together, I very rarely ever watch a series on the computer, and when I do, it's something of which I am very sure she won't enjoy watching with me.

Because I find the entire process of converting (usually) .MKV files to a watchable format and burning them to DVD to be quite the time- and resource hog, I've been looking for a better way to enjoy series.

Back in the day, HDD Media Players would play only the most basic video formats, and matroesjka was not one of them.
Nowadays, most media players seem to support the .MKV file format and h264 codecs, so that option now seems very tempting.

Is there anyone here who is using a HDD Media Player as such, and if so, could you please tell me of your experiences?
I am currently in the market for a good HDD Media Player, and would love to find out if they are indeed a viable replacement for burning tons of DVD's to watch series on my television.

Thanks!

[kitamesume]

2 major reasons as to why you don't want a media player.

1) it doesn't support subs thoroughly.
2) it doesn't support 10bit/Hi10P encodes.

the only way you can tackle all of the above is either an HTPC or a muscle ARM-rig, ODROID-X comes to mind with some sense.
but other than that, expect to shell out a little bit over 200$ if you want a dedicated (makeshift?)media player.

all in all, the most cost effective is to buy a laptop, plug it into your TV via HDMI. with this in mind you can either decommission your desktop or use them both.

[halfelite]

The ouya if it comes to light might be a good solution the tegra3 should be good enough to push 10bit 1080p. and at 99$ would be a nice price tag.

I just built a mini-itx rig for 300$ although it wont be used for an htpc it can get the job done as one. I still run a hardware player for most of my media, as Anime only covers about 5% of my totally viewing now, So watching it on the pc or putting it back to 8bit is an option I use.

[kitamesume]

oh yeah, i forgot about the ouya having some real muscles at 99$, thats an option too. although you'll need to setup a NAS for it to access some chunks of animes, but don't worry as your PC would work as a makeshift NAS.

by only the sheer cost efficiency, i vote ouya.

[mrdkreka]

The ouya if it comes to light might be a good solution the tegra3 should be good enough to push 10bit 1080p. and at 99$ would be a nice price tag.

I just built a mini-itx rig for 300$ although it wont be used for an htpc it can get the job done as one. I still run a hardware player for most of my media, as Anime only covers about 5% of my totally viewing now, So watching it on the pc or putting it back to 8bit is an option I use.

Tegra 3 isn't strong enough to handle 10 bit 1080p, else I would been a backster too, so I would vote against ouya.

Now I'm either waiting for something like that running a stronger SoC (ex. tegra 4 when that arrives), or waiting on devices/boxes to get support for Miracast, or maybe just build a HTPC.

[Chaosbreaker]

@Kitamesume - Taking all these things into consideration, spending a buck or two on a media player might be the wrong choice, since it will indeed almost exclusively be used for watching anime, and it indeed has come to my attention that a lot of groups have taken to Hi10p encoding.

Although my resources are not limitless, spending anything between $200 and $400 on a decent HTPC seems fair for an investment I will enjoy for years to come. When it comes to crunch, "complete" HDD Media Players aren't cheap either, and $200 for a media player that doesn't even completely do what I want it to seems pointless then.

A quick google taught me that there are virtually *NO* SoC Media Players out there that support Hi10P video encoding, so I might as well change this topic name to "Anime HTPC".

I am rather experienced at building my own computers, but those were almost exclusively gaming rigs, and I have little to no experience when it comes to building a HTPC. I can come up with some things to take in account, like silent yet decent cooling, but are there any other things that I should keep in mind?

I'd love to hear some pointers, as to what kind of hardware specs I should be looking at for optimal performance? It would be less than desirable to find out my freshly built HTPC is adequate only for Animé slideshows

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

EDIT: I'll make sure to check out the Ouya too, just because of the bang for the buck!

EDIT EDIT: Well, maybe not then...

[kitamesume]

@mrdkreka
hmm, it claims to have a tegra 3 with quadcore @ 1.6ghz, since its mod-able, with some additional parts you may be able to overclock it to 2ghz.

although if you want real muscles wait for the up coming ARM cortex-A15 quadcore @ 2ghz.
http://www.techspot.com/news/48248-arm-unveils-power-optimized-2ghz-cortex-a15-quad-core-chip.html

@Chaosbreaker
for a good start, you can look up on an i5-3330 oriented build as a base-line, an entry quadcore should be enough to future proof for H.265 as rumors states it takes from two to four times as much processing power for it to decode.
you'll need to purchase a dedicated GPU though since intel's IGP is far from perfect in video playback, specially on animes. GT640 or HD7750 comes into mind, both are available in low profile packages but the later(HD7750) is slightly more cost effective.
theres also an option of a trinity htpc, it works either way but the trinity wouldn't have much cpu processing power.

with these in mind you can build one from square one for around 500$ with a tiny case of course. i'll edit back or repost for a sample build, you can wriggle around that.

[Chaosbreaker]

@Kitamesume

Thanks for your time! I was just about to write that, although I've built plenty of rigs, those were all centered around either gaming or office performance, and I have no clue as to what a decent HTPC would require when it comes to raw processing power. You actually beat me to asking what kind of CPU I should be looking into

I was actually genuinely surprised to read 1.6GHZ QuadCore wouldn't be enough power to handle 10bit 1080p 

Thanks again, I will definitely look into this, and am looking forward for a sample build!

[mrdkreka]

@mrdkreka
hmm, it claims to have a tegra 3 with quadcore @ 1.6ghz, since its mod-able, with some additional parts you may be able to overclock it to 2ghz.

although if you want real muscles wait for the up coming ARM cortex-A15 quadcore @ 2ghz.
http://www.techspot.com/news/48248-arm-unveils-power-optimized-2ghz-cortex-a15-quad-core-chip.html

Doesn't sound like a good solution, when you also have to factor in that it might still struggle.

yeah that is why I'm planning on waiting, I just mention tegra 4, since we were talking about tegra 3.

I was actually genuinely surprised to read 1.6GHZ QuadCore wouldn't be enough power to handle 10bit 1080p 

What? if an ARM 1.6GHZ quadCore could handle 10bit 1080p, then that would be pretty damn amazing. I take you don't know much about the difference between ARM and x86 architecture?

[kitamesume]

it is because the ARM processors are an entirely different architecture, even with their quadcore variants.

as for sheer processing performance to decode 10bit encodes, even a celeron G550 is plenty for it. but what worries me is the up coming H.265, considering how people leaped into 10bit encodes once the processing capacity were available... also since this rig should last you a few years, well it would be a waste to upgrade too soon right? as we're talking about 400ish bucks going down the drain. without solid benchmarks all we can do is speculate about this new encode, at worst an i3 would struggle, which i hope is not true.
the GPU actually isn't entirely necessary, even a lowly HD6450 would work. well its your choice.

anyway about the build:
[$189.99]Intel Core i5-3330 Ivy Bridge 3.0GHz
[$114.99]GIGABYTE GA-Z77N-WIFI LGA1155
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$99.99]SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $582.93 ($482.94 w/o gpu)

-or-

[$124.99]AMD A10-5700 Trinity FM2 65W Quad-Core Desktop APU
[$120.00]n/a? i don't see anything under FM2
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $422.95

[halfelite]

The ouya if it comes to light might be a good solution the tegra3 should be good enough to push 10bit 1080p. and at 99$ would be a nice price tag.

I just built a mini-itx rig for 300$ although it wont be used for an htpc it can get the job done as one. I still run a hardware player for most of my media, as Anime only covers about 5% of my totally viewing now, So watching it on the pc or putting it back to 8bit is an option I use.

Tegra 3 isn't strong enough to handle 10 bit 1080p, else I would been a backster too, so I would vote against ouya.

Now I'm either waiting for something like that running a stronger SoC (ex. tegra 4 when that arrives), or waiting on devices/boxes to get support for Miracast, or maybe just build a HTPC.

am I misreading this thread on xda then

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1769025

They re saying tegra3 does play it still has some distortion but plays it using mx player with HW+ enabled, I know some will say since there is distortion its not an option. But For someone like me I would still use it, And I did pledge on kickstarter for it though so i will be getting one either way

[Chaosbreaker]

@mrdkreka
hmm, it claims to have a tegra 3 with quadcore @ 1.6ghz, since its mod-able, with some additional parts you may be able to overclock it to 2ghz.

although if you want real muscles wait for the up coming ARM cortex-A15 quadcore @ 2ghz.
http://www.techspot.com/news/48248-arm-unveils-power-optimized-2ghz-cortex-a15-quad-core-chip.html

Doesn't sound like a good solution, when you also have to factor in that it might still struggle.

yeah that is why I'm planning on waiting, I just mention tegra 4, since we were talking about tegra 3.

I was actually genuinely surprised to read 1.6GHZ QuadCore wouldn't be enough power to handle 10bit 1080p 

What? if an ARM 1.6GHZ quadCore could handle 10bit 1080p, then that would be pretty damn amazing. I take you don't know much about the difference between ARM and x86 architecture?

Like I have said before, I am a desktop rig builder.  I actually read over the "ARM" part completely, and I'm not familiar with the Ouya other than what I've read here. It makes more sense now that I know we're not talking, for example, x86 onboard CPU's.

it is because the ARM processors are an entirely different architecture, even with their quadcore variants.

as for sheer processing performance to decode 10bit encodes, even a celeron G550 is plenty for it. but what worries me is the up coming H.265, considering how people leaped into 10bit encodes once the processing capacity were available... also since this rig should last you a few years, well it would be a waste to upgrade too soon right? as we're talking about 400ish bucks going down the drain. without solid benchmarks all we can do is speculate about this new encode, at worst an i3 would struggle, which i hope is not true.
the GPU actually isn't entirely necessary, even a lowly HD6450 would work. well its your choice.

anyway about the build:
[$189.99]Intel Core i5-3330 Ivy Bridge 3.0GHz
[$114.99]GIGABYTE GA-Z77N-WIFI LGA1155
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$99.99]SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $582.93 ($482.94 w/o gpu)

-or-

[$124.99]AMD A10-5700 Trinity FM2 65W Quad-Core Desktop APU
[$120.00]n/a? i don't see anything under FM2
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $422.95

Thanks for the build, I'll look into that!

 I have discussed the matter with the misses, and I have decided that I will buy a hardware media player for now, since I will be able to recode most 10bit releases back to 8bit, and my girlfriend declaring that "quality doesn't really bother her that much, as long as she gets to watch anime".

I will simultaneously start a nice "build my own HTPC" project the next couple of months, since I in fact do want to be able to watch everything I download in it's native encoding. There are still a lot of things I want to take into consideration. I want the finished build to be remniscent of a "normal PC" as little as possible, in both appearances and most importantly sound production. Also, I want to be able to control the device like I would a DVD player or Media Player, simply by remote control. Since it will be my first HTPC build, I'm quite really looking forward to learn a thing or two down the road.

Thanks for all your efforts so far, I will make sure to keep you posted on my progress!

[kitamesume]

(click to show/hide)

@mrdkreka
hmm, it claims to have a tegra 3 with quadcore @ 1.6ghz, since its mod-able, with some additional parts you may be able to overclock it to 2ghz.

although if you want real muscles wait for the up coming ARM cortex-A15 quadcore @ 2ghz.
http://www.techspot.com/news/48248-arm-unveils-power-optimized-2ghz-cortex-a15-quad-core-chip.html

Doesn't sound like a good solution, when you also have to factor in that it might still struggle.

yeah that is why I'm planning on waiting, I just mention tegra 4, since we were talking about tegra 3.

I was actually genuinely surprised to read 1.6GHZ QuadCore wouldn't be enough power to handle 10bit 1080p 

What? if an ARM 1.6GHZ quadCore could handle 10bit 1080p, then that would be pretty damn amazing. I take you don't know much about the difference between ARM and x86 architecture?

Like I have said before, I am a desktop rig builder.  I actually read over the "ARM" part completely, and I'm not familiar with the Ouya other than what I've read here. It makes more sense now that I know we're not talking, for example, x86 onboard CPU's.

it is because the ARM processors are an entirely different architecture, even with their quadcore variants.

as for sheer processing performance to decode 10bit encodes, even a celeron G550 is plenty for it. but what worries me is the up coming H.265, considering how people leaped into 10bit encodes once the processing capacity were available... also since this rig should last you a few years, well it would be a waste to upgrade too soon right? as we're talking about 400ish bucks going down the drain. without solid benchmarks all we can do is speculate about this new encode, at worst an i3 would struggle, which i hope is not true.
the GPU actually isn't entirely necessary, even a lowly HD6450 would work. well its your choice.

anyway about the build:
[$189.99]Intel Core i5-3330 Ivy Bridge 3.0GHz
[$114.99]GIGABYTE GA-Z77N-WIFI LGA1155
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$99.99]SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $582.93 ($482.94 w/o gpu)

-or-

[$124.99]AMD A10-5700 Trinity FM2 65W Quad-Core Desktop APU
[$120.00]n/a? i don't see anything under FM2
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $422.95

Thanks for the build, I'll look into that!

 I have discussed the matter with the misses, and I have decided that I will buy a hardware media player for now, since I will be able to recode most 10bit releases back to 8bit, and my girlfriend declaring that "quality doesn't really bother her that much, as long as she gets to watch anime".

I will simultaneously start a nice "build my own HTPC" project the next couple of months, since I in fact do want to be able to watch everything I download in it's native encoding. There are still a lot of things I want to take into consideration. I want the finished build to be remniscent of a "normal PC" as little as possible, in both appearances and most importantly sound production. Also, I want to be able to control the device like I would a DVD player or Media Player, simply by remote control. Since it will be my first HTPC build, I'm quite really looking forward to learn a thing or two down the road.

Thanks for all your efforts so far, I will make sure to keep you posted on my progress!

with that plan in mind you can take a look at this types of variants, they're a type of case that looks exactly like a media player, although way bigger in dimensions and slightly more expensive than a regular small case.
[$74.99]nMEDIAPC Silver Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 6000S ATX Media Center / HTPC Case


for remotes though, there are certain motherboards that comes pre-bundled with them, notably on asrock motherboards.

as for sound, target motherboards with onboard ALC898, they're nearly on-par with budget xonar cards which is a good thing, you can pair them with high quality sound systems and you won't even notice a difference, this would also save you from spending on a xonar card as well.

[Chaosbreaker]

(click to show/hide)

@mrdkreka
hmm, it claims to have a tegra 3 with quadcore @ 1.6ghz, since its mod-able, with some additional parts you may be able to overclock it to 2ghz.

although if you want real muscles wait for the up coming ARM cortex-A15 quadcore @ 2ghz.
http://www.techspot.com/news/48248-arm-unveils-power-optimized-2ghz-cortex-a15-quad-core-chip.html

Doesn't sound like a good solution, when you also have to factor in that it might still struggle.

yeah that is why I'm planning on waiting, I just mention tegra 4, since we were talking about tegra 3.

I was actually genuinely surprised to read 1.6GHZ QuadCore wouldn't be enough power to handle 10bit 1080p 

What? if an ARM 1.6GHZ quadCore could handle 10bit 1080p, then that would be pretty damn amazing. I take you don't know much about the difference between ARM and x86 architecture?

Like I have said before, I am a desktop rig builder.  I actually read over the "ARM" part completely, and I'm not familiar with the Ouya other than what I've read here. It makes more sense now that I know we're not talking, for example, x86 onboard CPU's.

it is because the ARM processors are an entirely different architecture, even with their quadcore variants.

as for sheer processing performance to decode 10bit encodes, even a celeron G550 is plenty for it. but what worries me is the up coming H.265, considering how people leaped into 10bit encodes once the processing capacity were available... also since this rig should last you a few years, well it would be a waste to upgrade too soon right? as we're talking about 400ish bucks going down the drain. without solid benchmarks all we can do is speculate about this new encode, at worst an i3 would struggle, which i hope is not true.
the GPU actually isn't entirely necessary, even a lowly HD6450 would work. well its your choice.

anyway about the build:
[$189.99]Intel Core i5-3330 Ivy Bridge 3.0GHz
[$114.99]GIGABYTE GA-Z77N-WIFI LGA1155
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$99.99]SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $582.93 ($482.94 w/o gpu)

-or-

[$124.99]AMD A10-5700 Trinity FM2 65W Quad-Core Desktop APU
[$120.00]n/a? i don't see anything under FM2
[$22.99]Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600
[$59.99]Mushkin Enhanced Callisto Deluxe 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC (SSD)
[$44.99]Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W
[$49.99]COOLER MASTER Elite 120 Advanced
---------------------------------------------
total - $422.95

Thanks for the build, I'll look into that!

 I have discussed the matter with the misses, and I have decided that I will buy a hardware media player for now, since I will be able to recode most 10bit releases back to 8bit, and my girlfriend declaring that "quality doesn't really bother her that much, as long as she gets to watch anime".

I will simultaneously start a nice "build my own HTPC" project the next couple of months, since I in fact do want to be able to watch everything I download in it's native encoding. There are still a lot of things I want to take into consideration. I want the finished build to be remniscent of a "normal PC" as little as possible, in both appearances and most importantly sound production. Also, I want to be able to control the device like I would a DVD player or Media Player, simply by remote control. Since it will be my first HTPC build, I'm quite really looking forward to learn a thing or two down the road.

Thanks for all your efforts so far, I will make sure to keep you posted on my progress!

with that plan in mind you can take a look at this types of variants, they're a type of case that looks exactly like a media player, although way bigger in dimensions and slightly more expensive than a regular small case.
[$74.99]nMEDIAPC Silver Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 6000S ATX Media Center / HTPC Case


for remotes though, there are certain motherboards that comes pre-bundled with them, notably on asrock motherboards.

as for sound, target motherboards with onboard ALC898, they're nearly on-par with budget xonar cards which is a good thing, you can pair them with high quality sound systems and you won't even notice a difference, this would also save you from spending on a xonar card as well.

That looks awesome and, despite it's somewhat larger size, definitely something I would gladly put on the shelf.
The fact that it's large is probably positive for some larger silent cooling solutions, and could possibly fit a harddisk or two.
My television set hasn't got a great home theater- or even speakerset (yet) so onboard sound is probably just great.
The future might bring something different, but it's always easier to "adapt" than to start from scratch.

Thanks for the heads up, this case looks awesome!

[lapa321]

You can probably have the unit constantly re-encoding videos too. A properly encoded video will run off the GPU so the CPU really has nothing to do (audio playback is hardly stressful to a CPU).

[vuzedome]

Yeah but 10bit to 8bit isn't exactly beginner friendly, if you've checked out the playback forums you'll see.

[kitamesume]

You can probably have the unit constantly re-encoding videos too. A properly encoded video will run off the GPU so the CPU really has nothing to do (audio playback is hardly stressful to a CPU).

doesn't work with Hi10P/10bit, you're stuck with CPU doing all the shitty work, including re-encoding i suppose(since re-encoding uses [decode->encode] sequence).

[Freedom Kira]

If you're looking at building an HTPC, this is the case I bought for my build. It's a bit difficult to work with if you are planning to use an SSD or some other 2.5" drive even with an adapter (but if you are using regular 3.5" drives, they fit perfectly, and you can actually fit several of them), and the optical drive tray cover thing makes a loud clunk whenever it opens and closes, but otherwise it looks very sleek and fits right in with the rest of your typical TV equipment.

[lapa321]

You can probably have the unit constantly re-encoding videos too. A properly encoded video will run off the GPU so the CPU really has nothing to do (audio playback is hardly stressful to a CPU).

doesn't work with Hi10P/10bit, you're stuck with CPU doing all the shitty work, including re-encoding i suppose(since re-encoding uses [decode->encode] sequence).

Yeah, that's what it's re-encoding. While an 8-bit video plays using the GPU hardware, a program in the background is using the CPU to convert 10-bit to 8-bit. It's how i use my netbook/nettop, i have quite a few coding tools that constantly use a lot of CPU (ex. flash pro), they're unaffected if i play a 720p anime in a corner.

[Chaosbreaker]

If you're looking at building an HTPC, this is the case I bought for my build. It's a bit difficult to work with if you are planning to use an SSD or some other 2.5" drive even with an adapter (but if you are using regular 3.5" drives, they fit perfectly, and you can actually fit several of them), and the optical drive tray cover thing makes a loud clunk whenever it opens and closes, but otherwise it looks very sleek and fits right in with the rest of your typical TV equipment.

The lack of user friendliness when it comes to 2,5" drives is no problem for me! I was planning to outfit whatever I was going to buy/build with a fat 3,5" drive, be it Media Player or HTPC, anyways. Being able to fit even two of those in there is absolutely a pro! Definitely looks sleek!

You can probably have the unit constantly re-encoding videos too. A properly encoded video will run off the GPU so the CPU really has nothing to do (audio playback is hardly stressful to a CPU).

doesn't work with Hi10P/10bit, you're stuck with CPU doing all the shitty work, including re-encoding i suppose(since re-encoding uses [decode->encode] sequence).

Yeah but 10bit to 8bit isn't exactly beginner friendly, if you've checked out the playback forums you'll see.

I'm not sure I'm getting what you guys are getting at, but I assume this is about "manually" reencoding the 10bit MKV files to 8bit MKV files on a PC. I've been trying to do some reencodes yesterday, and it went really great with no major quality loss. The file size shrunk a couple of 100MB's per file, too. It sure is CPU intensive, but I'm running a 2600K at 4.7GHZ, when fully stressed at 100% over four cores rarely sees temperatures above 65 degrees celsius, so I'm good there.

I'll look into a better way to create myself a task sequence rather than having to reencode every file manually though, but for now, it will do