Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions

[GoGeTa006]

So I finally sold my old computer:
Intel Quad Q6600
4 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX+ 9800


=== anyways I got $400 for it (do you think it was a good deal?) ===

I have a couple of questions for my new rig, I wanted to know your opinions, its still in planning phase and Im waiting on Xmas money so I can purchase it in Jan. prolly

- I am not sure if I should get an i7 and a $200ish video card or an i5 and a $300ish video card I want to avoid bottlenecks as much as I can

- Just for the fun of it, I was looking at ITX and microATX mobos, i dont know, I was kind of in the mood of having a small PC tower, but given the fact that I have 3 HD's + an SS Im getting for the new rig. . .I doubt that will be possible, but anyways what are you thoughts on ITX/MicroATX gaming rigs?


What are you thoughts on open-box items (Im pretty sure theres going to be plenty to chose from in January)
I am thinking of getting the Monitor and probably the optical drives as open box
thoughts?:

[metro.]

Open box, good call. Newegg is pretty good about that shit.

On the micro, they're fine if you want to build a LAN setup, but for non-mobile use it's a bit useless. The space to cost ratio is just too poor. The benefit is too small to make it worth it, I've also heard of some longevity problems, if you're looking to keep it for a while.

I'd say go for the i5 and $200 card, a lot of the processing now a days can be pushed onto the GFX card anyway. On the other hand, if you want you could get an i7 and then a cheaper card, and upgrade in a year or two. Depends how long you want to go without rebuilding your whole rig.

And that's probably a pretty good deal on your old set up, reaffirms my lack of desire to sell my shitbox of a rig.
I answer things backwards it would seem.

[kitamesume]

try hitting up an i5-K + GTX670, the best combination yet in my book. you wouldn't be needing an i7 unless you do stuffs that loads all 8threads.

you should hold back until march(ish)-2013 though, haswell and GTX7## would be saying "hi!" by then.

also about a "worth" table i made up, hope it helps.

(click to show/hide)

i5-3330 @ 3.6ghz(max turbo 4cores) : $190 = 0.01895 ratio
i5-3450 @ 3.7ghz(max turbo 4cores) : $195 = 0.01897 ratio
i5-3470 @ 3.8ghz(max turbo 4cores) : $200 = 0.01900 ratio
i5-3550 @ 3.9ghz(max turbo 4cores) : $210 = 0.01857 ratio
i5-3570 @ 4.0ghz(max turbo 4cores) : $215 = 0.01860 ratio
i5-3570K @ 4.1ghz(overclock breakeven) : $215 = 0.01907 ratio
note: ghz/price, higher ratio = more worth it
note2: theres a 4-bin over turbo trick to reach that max turbo
note3: newegg prices

ITX rigs are awesome, lian-li or Bitfenix produces fine ITX cases that can hold plenty of HDDs as well, i've seen one of those ITX rigs that fitted a 10" double-slot GPU with four harddrives and one optical drive. the tiny thing can run BF3 1080p-ULTRA, priceless, the guy uses it as a lan party rig.
the only down side of an ITX rig is that you cant slap in extra PCI-E cards or go dual GPUs, hit an MATX if these downside concerns you.

depends on how you'll be getting the open-box items, i've had horrible experiences with open-box via delivered on some not-so-known seller, i had to pay shipment to exchange the item =( quality control seems scarce on open-box items...

[vuzedome]

Go big, go large, screw the micros and tiny ones.
Since you want to avoid bottlenecks, mind as well go all out?
But an i5 and GTX660 will be good enough.

[buchno]

It isn't impossible to go small. Sweclockers managed to build a Mini-ITX monster rig with an i7 3770K and a GTX 690 at acceptable temperatures without too much noise from the fans. Obviously, you don't need such overkill components and it will be a bit difficult to build, although for the HDD:s you can buy USB 3.0 cabinets if they don't fit.

[kitamesume]

^ yeah, and an identical case thats quite cheaper too is the CM - Elite 120 Advance.
it can fit 3x3.5" drives + 1x5.25" odd, or (3+1)x3.5" drive + 1xSlim odd with this adapter.

as for temps, nvidia GTX600 series are quite cooler than AMD HD7000 series, also intel ivybridge are quite cool although overclocked "K"s can get quite hot.
edit: omg the horrible puns XD

[kureshii]

Suggest you stay away from the CM Elite 120 for gaming — thermal performance is just not as good as other ITX cases on the market, and this is important for mid-/high-end gaming.

For small builds, the Silverstone SG07 is a classic, and the FT03 Mini is an interesting alternative. But they can only fit two 2.5" and one 3.5".

If you don’t mind larger cases (almost microATX size), the Bitfenix Prodigy is a nice choice too, able to fit five 3.5" HDDs and dual-slot graphics cards.

Another case of similar size is the Fractal Node 304, which although seemingly configured for large storage, is flexible enough to accommodate gaming cards and those three 3.5" HDDs.

All the above are, of course, pricier than the Elite 120.

[kitamesume]

yes well thats because the CM Elite 120 didn't have enough vents to accommodate moderate airflow, although mods can fix that(honey comb side vents, 120mm fan on the side instead of 80mm, replacing the HDD holder with a more airflow friendly design, etc.).
if you wanna save bucks its a fine choice, its not like an increase in temps from 60c to 70c would kill your CPU/GPU =P.

edit: reading through the article, i think they used the stock fans, they weren't the nicest fans if you get my point.
also the configuration, i think the results would be better if the it was like -
front intake 120mm
middle intake 120mm
side intake 120mm
psu down
inverted cpu fan (i wonder if the Noctua NH-L12 could fit)
no I/O shield

[GoGeTa006]

yeah I've been reading about the ITX and stuff like that
I saw This one which seems pretty flexible to adding stuff. . .but I will probably stick to a mid ATX tower or something. . .
as mentioned I was only thinking for fun, not really going to use it for LANs or anything. . .its gonna stay in my room

and longetivity. . .well the one I have is 5 years old. . .so Im assuming I'll be upgrading in 5 years again
unless something extremely (EXTREMELY) innovative comes out. . .like those computers in minority report or something. ..

[Tatsujin]

So I finally sold my old computer:
Intel Quad Q6600
4 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX+ 9800


=== anyways I got $400 for it (do you think it was a good deal?) ===

Yes, it's a good deal.

- I am not sure if I should get an i7 and a $200ish video card or an i5 and a $300ish video card I want to avoid bottlenecks as much as I can

If you are going to do heavy tasking like encoding or large photo editing, you might want to hit the i7 with a 200 USD graphic card. If not, stick to the i5 and a 300 dollar USD graphic card. Also, a good note for you, if you DO NOT plan on overclocking your CPU then don't get the "K" sign towards the end of the processors - that's specifically designed for overclockers. You retain couple of nice features with the standard editions (you can still overclock those but they have some restrictions).

If you're able to wait until April, you'll get your tax return by then and the new Haswell processors will come out around March or April, following the release of the new graphic cards. I'm also reading that DDR4 will also come out, but that shit will be expensive.

What are you thoughts on open-box items (Im pretty sure theres going to be plenty to chose from in January)
I am thinking of getting the Monitor and probably the optical drives as open box
thoughts?:

I'm not sure. If you do go with a monitor, aim for Asus. They're damn good.

[MyonMyon]

I'm impressed by your marketing skills if you got $400 out of it 

I'm also voting for the i5 + $200 GFX card. You don't really need a i7 because most of the i5s OC really well and good enough multithreading is pretty much nonexistent in games (if you are using a lot of 3D modelling/photoshop/video editing you might wanna consider the i7, however). Just don't get the boxed one and buy the CPU cooler separately and you'll get the most out of your money.

Also, it's not necessary to buy the most expensive graphics card. The medium-priced ones are pretty powerful nowadays and will run practically any game on full settings on a single monitor (If you are going for a multiple monitor setup, you should consider the best and most expensive cards).

Maybe the most important thing is: don't try to save money on the power. Get a good one with enough wattage to power your rig. Corsair, Seasonic, Super Flower and XFX should be a few which won't blow up. That $30 extra is totally worth it compared to a bad PSU which could cause multiple problems.

[GoGeTa006]

I'm impressed by your marketing skills if you got $400 out of it 

I'm also voting for the i5 + $200 GFX card. You don't really need a i7 because most of the i5s OC really well and good enough multithreading is pretty much nonexistent in games (if you are using a lot of 3D modelling/photoshop/video editing you might wanna consider the i7, however). Just don't get the boxed one and buy the CPU cooler separately and you'll get the most out of your money.

Also, it's not necessary to buy the most expensive graphics card. The medium-priced ones are pretty powerful nowadays and will run practically any game on full settings on a single monitor (If you are going for a multiple monitor setup, you should consider the best and most expensive cards).

Maybe the most important thing is: don't try to save money on the power. Get a good one with enough wattage to power your rig. Corsair, Seasonic, Super Flower and XFX should be a few which won't blow up. That $30 extra is totally worth it compared to a bad PSU which could cause multiple problems.

I used to be a salesman at Sears
If you are enthused about your products, so will the customers

If you are going to do heavy tasking like encoding or large photo editing, you might want to hit the i7 with a 200 USD graphic card. If not, stick to the i5 and a 300 dollar USD graphic card. Also, a good note for you, if you DO NOT plan on overclocking your CPU then don't get the "K" sign towards the end of the processors - that's specifically designed for overclockers. You retain couple of nice features with the standard editions (you can still overclock those but they have some restrictions).

If you're able to wait until April, you'll get your tax return by then and the new Haswell processors will come out around March or April, following the release of the new graphic cards. I'm also reading that DDR4 will also come out, but that shit will be expensive.

advantages of that?
I was planning on slightly overclocking it, and actually good thing you brought that up, how does the "turbo" thing work if you over clock?

and what are the advantages of not getting a processor ending in K?
I read that the Ivy bridge is pretty bad for OC'ing, thats why I was still debating if I should get Ivy/Sandy. . .I do plan on overclocking as I mentioned, but im not an "overlcocker", if the CPU performs good on stock, I'll leave it on stock, I did do OC back in the AMD > Intel days. . .


Say a 3.2 Ghz (Turbo 3.8 Ghz), what if I overclock it to 4.0 Ghz, does it automatically disable the turbo or will it go to something like 4.0 Ghz (Turbo 4.5 Ghz) or whatever?

[buchno]

One disadvantage of getting one of the K-series is that they don't have VT-d (which is used to game in Virtualbox, for example).

[mgz]

avoid anything small as far as case and mobo go, just makes it easier for everything to stay that much cooler extending the life of everything. Also dont know how big your hands are, but as someone with large hands. Fuck small  cases

[GoGeTa006]

One disadvantage of getting one of the K-series is that they don't have VT-d (which is used to game in Virtualbox, for example).

I am not too familiar but isnt virtual machine something that wouldnt apply here since all the processing is done in the local and not some host? (AFAIK Virtual machine is like cloud computing? like an emulated computer that does all the processing for you while you just get the results)
that article talks about linux and stuff (still reading), so Im assuming that user is running multiple instances, where I see how virtual machines might come in handy, but for my purposes I dont think I'll be doing that, here is a little more about what I plan on doing:

- Heavy gaming
- Photoshop/Flash/Adobe stuff enthusiast
- Sony Vegas/Adobe Premiere enthusiast
- Engineering CAD (Solidworks and ProE mostly) for school, and hopefully work sometime soon

---
and well offcourse all those basics, web surfing, torrenting, playing minesweeper. . .

[buchno]

I'm not sure what you mean, it's still the same physical computer, just that it runs an operating system inside of your main operating system. Perhaps this guide is better:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1205216/guide-create-a-gaming-virtual-machine

VT-d enables you to dedicate your (secondary) graphics card to your virtual machine rather than your main machine, so that it can do graphics intensive stuff like games, similar to how you can mount USB devices directly to the virtual machine.

If you don't run Linux as your main operating system (and therefore can game without any problems), you won't be interested in this, though. I just mentioned it as an example.

[kitamesume]

advantages of that?
I was planning on slightly overclocking it, and actually good thing you brought that up, how does the "turbo" thing work if you over clock?

and what are the advantages of not getting a processor ending in K?
I read that the Ivy bridge is pretty bad for OC'ing, thats why I was still debating if I should get Ivy/Sandy. . .I do plan on overclocking as I mentioned, but im not an "overlcocker", if the CPU performs good on stock, I'll leave it on stock, I did do OC back in the AMD > Intel days. . .


Say a 3.2 Ghz (Turbo 3.8 Ghz), what if I overclock it to 4.0 Ghz, does it automatically disable the turbo or will it go to something like 4.0 Ghz (Turbo 4.5 Ghz) or whatever?

the "turbo" works like a reversed speedstep, it boosts the clocks higher when it detects loads accordingly(4bins-on-1core for single threaded load, 2bins-on-4cores for multithreaded load).
but theres a trick in ivy bridge, you can add 4 more bins on top of turbo.

Ivy wasn't a bad overclocker, its just that its hotter when its overclocked, it can still reach 4.5ghz quite easily. Ivy-B K's sweet spot is around 4.3-4.5ghz.

usually i hear that when you manually overclock turbo has awful effects on stability so you might wanna disable it, the turbo doesn't turn off by itself though as you've got to manually do so in the bios.

[metro.]

One disadvantage of getting one of the K-series is that they don't have VT-d (which is used to game in Virtualbox, for example).

Who games in virtual boxes?
Oh right, you.
Just install windows you silly Swede

[buchno]

Who games in virtual boxes?
Oh right, you.

I just realized the times I've done it can be counted on one hand. I don't really game much any longer, and the few games I play work perfectly fine in Linux (emulators like Dolphin, Touhou, Black Mesa and a bit of Starcraft in Wine, etc), so...

Just install windows you silly Swede

Nooo, I'm finally running Steam natively on Ubuntu, I can't switch back now!

[Saras]

If you're uncertain whether the extra threads are worth the extra 100$, why not consider the 8350? Granted, it is slower than the i5 if you want a gaming rig, but it's better than it if you want something to render or the like. Unlike the 8150, the 8350 is a decent alternative for a cheap all rounder. If you don't want that and want a gaming rig, stick with the i5.

Also, why the 660 ti? The 7950 is the basically 10$ pricier and is just under the 670, what concerns performance. And you can easily overclock it enough to blow the 670 away. With all of the price cuts ati cards had, they're very competitive. Unless you want Nvidia's 3D vision, at least what concerns the now, I'd go with ati.