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Author Topic: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions  (Read 2938 times)

Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2012, 08:52:15 AM »
Quote from: kitamesume on December 28, 2012, 07:25:19 PM
a build like these works:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

notes: the first two is definitely overkill for a general purpose PC, the 3rd one is a little too beefy for the avg joe, while the last one is the "just about right".

edit: as for the slightly over $600 claim for the i3+HD7770.
(click to show/hide)


as for temps on ITX, most components can tolerate 45c ambient temps (inside case), CPU can run fine at 70c core temps while GPU can tolerate 80c core temps.
now to point out, recent architectures such as kepler and ivy bridge runs cool enough for ITX cases, some ITX cases are ventilated enough for overclocking as well.

speaking of small form factors : http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1037763691
PS: they aren't suffering any temps issues, mind you.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 09:06:07 AM by kitamesume »
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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2012, 09:01:15 AM »
A 2nd generation Core i5/7? Why would you degrade the value? Is it because the 3rd generation generates more heat (hence, 3rd generation dispenses more heat IF you overclock it)? You can get the 3rd generation for the same price with better features and about 10%+ more performance.

The case I went with DF-85 and it's bad ass. Tons of airflow, big fans and the front filters are lovely. Easy to clean and the fans are quiet, too. The price is steep, thou'. The other I recommend is 1200-V3. Both cases are out of stock, not surprising. :)
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Online Tiffanys

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2012, 09:09:43 AM »
Ah, there's a new generation now? It's been 5 months since I've looked into this stuff, so my list was accordingly outdated. Go with that then.

If it's a different socket you'd have to change everything though. Only bad thing about waiting for the Haswell chips is that the boards for them would be limited upon release and very expensive. You'd have to wait around 6 months or so for prices to drop on boards and for more choices to emerge. Stuff's always more expensive right when it comes out...
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2012, 09:14:31 AM »
 :o you guys still think the ivy bridge generates more heat than sandy bridge?

the truth is its the opposite, they generate less heat but since the die size is smaller most of it's heat is more concentrated on a smaller package making it look like it's running hotter.

think:
32nm vs 22nm = ivy bridge's size is 69% of sandy bridge

edit: proof of it's less heat generation is ivy bridge's smaller TDP package.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 09:19:38 AM by kitamesume »
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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2012, 09:17:47 AM »
Quote from: kitamesume on December 30, 2012, 09:14:31 AM
:o you guys still think the ivy bridge generates more heat than sandy bridge?

the truth is its the opposite, they generate less heat but since the die size is smaller most of it's heat is more concentrated on a smaller package making it look like it's running hotter.

think:
32nm vs 22nm = ivy bridge's size is 69% of sandy bridge
Yup, that's true. Ivy Bridge, on the other hand, will generate more heat compared to Sandy Bridge IF you overclock it, or should I say the higher you overclock it the more heat it will dispense.
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2012, 09:21:35 AM »
...

you can't make more heat with less energy, period.
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Offline Belmakar

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2012, 09:27:19 AM »
Quote from: kitamesume on December 30, 2012, 09:21:35 AM
...

you can't make more heat with less energy, given the energy efficiency of the compared applicances are the same or the one requiring less energy is more efficient.
FTFY (in the context of applicances where producing heat is an undesired side effect)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 09:34:06 AM by Belmakar »
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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2012, 09:39:18 AM »
Quote from: kitamesume on December 30, 2012, 09:21:35 AM
...

you can't make more heat with less energy, period.
You've read the news and reviews? Also, the die for Ivy Bridge is smaller thus' it would force it to generate more heat on average 10 Celsius more than Sandy Bridge. You even mentioned the 'die' part yourself. I can relate to what you're saying about the 32nm vs 22nm, thou' in this case Ivy Bridge generates more heat if you overclock it.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/129300-physics-ivy-bridge-and-the-slow-death-of-overclocking
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ivy-bridge-benchmark-core-i7-3770k,3181-9.html

It's all over the internet. Ivy Bridge generates more heat if you overclock it. Period. :P

And good night.
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2012, 09:41:37 AM »
did they ever tried to measure the temperatures on the HSF fins instead of the core?

its because of ivy bridge's small package is causing it to heat up faster that the HSF can't cool fast enough, if they did measure it from the fins you'd see that the HSF is much cooler than that of sandy bridge.

edit:
plus to mention that ivy bridge is using TIM which makes the heat transfer more retarded, making most of the heat stuck inside the die which the die sensor sees as higher temperature. and since most of the heat is stuck inside the die, you're dispersing less heat, making sense that it also means you're producing less heat.

edit2: how do you even measure heat production anyway? you don't say 80c when you get asked "how much heat production do i need to heat-up my room?"
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:14:56 AM by kitamesume »
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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2012, 10:12:20 AM »
If I recall correctly, the increased heat from overclocking is not because the die is smaller, but because the heat is dissipated differently, which is because Ivy Bridge uses tri-gate transistors.

Heat production is measured in watts, i.e. the TDP. A watt is a measure of energy per unit of time, i.e. 1 W = 1 J/s. I would expect that Ivy Bridge's TDP increases more than Sandy Bridge's when overclocked.
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2012, 10:19:13 AM »
can't put much conclusion to it, since nobody does fin temp sensing during temperature comparisons anymore.

it should be obvious though that ivy bridge's heat dissipation should be lower, since of the first two reasons, one is most of the heat is stuck inside the die, and it's overall power consumption and TDP is much lower than sandy bridge.

if i remember correctly, heat ≠ temperature, you can't really say how much heat is produced by just saying the temperature.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:22:39 AM by kitamesume »
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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2012, 10:35:15 AM »
Fair point. I can't recall if the complaints were about overclocking resulting in higher temperatures or greater heat production, so that kind of makes my original point less solid.
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2012, 10:41:46 AM »
they really should go back to core+fintemp comparisons. it should be noted that even if the core temp is higher, if the fin's temp is lower then the overall heat dissipated is still lower.
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Offline Ivon

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2012, 01:30:55 PM »
Quote from: kitamesume on December 30, 2012, 07:59:16 AM
has it ever occurred to you that the definition of "gaming PC" is simply a PC that can game?

When the poster posted 'ITX' I had no idea what that was. Looked it up and it seems to be the Intel Atom (not sure what AMD's is called) mobos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX

Modern Example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131840

They appear to have branched out the 'role' from just a simple Media Center computer attached to a TV/Projector. To a Low- to Mid- range computer.

"Gaming PC"

"A gaming computer (also gaming PC and sometimes called a gaming rig) is a personal computer that is capable of playing computationally demanding video games."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_computer

Guess I'm just old school. :(
I've never considered a computer that couldn't play a "big title" (Crysis, Skyrim, Far Cry, and the like) with the settings (excluding Shadows) set to maximum as a Gaming PC.

Quote from: kitamesume on December 30, 2012, 10:41:46 AM
they really should go back to core+fintemp comparisons. it should be noted that even if the core temp is higher, if the fin's temp is lower then the overall heat dissipated is still lower.

Wouldn't the Core sensor and the CPU sensor do just that. Or at least close enough.

I have an i7-920, in a EVGA X58 Classified (Model 760) mobo, and if I install say EVGA's E-LEET software there's a Core #1,#2,#3,#4 Sensor reading, as well as, a CPU Temp reading. The Core readings are about 10c higher than the CPU Temp.

I would assume by the temps that the Core is the actual chip dies inside the CPU Case and the CPU Temp is the case.


PS: OP, you lost yet? Cause I'm getting there  :P
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2012, 01:45:50 PM »
the cpu temp reading you got depends on where the sensor is located, most likely located on the IHS, its still different from case temp or HSF temps. the temp of the HSF should be the thing to be considered if you're measuring heat dissipated inside the case since the HSF itself is the one that dissipates the heat into the atmosphere and not the processor.

for one, core temps can reach as high as 80c on fully loaded processor, if that is the case on HSF temps then you wouldn't be able to touch it, try it and you get burns.

as for the entropy on the ITX, it will stay constant once the equilibrium is met, this equilibrium is met at lower temperatures with more efficient components that generates less heat, now a day's processor and graphics card does have this traits, expect haswell and the incoming refresh of kepler to be much more efficient.
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Offline GoGeTa006

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2012, 06:40:00 PM »
My overall budget is going to be around 1200 dlls maybe can push it s lil further. . . Actually less, cause im also getting a 24" monitor. . .

I was looking at around 220ish for the cpu (i5)
300ish for the video card
80ish for an ssd
150ish for a mobo
60ish for ram
180 for case/psu


i dont think ill be getting a full tower. . .I dont need that much space, i dont plan on sli, i only have 3 hdd + 1 ssd and dont need more than one optical drive

Thats why ive considered micro and ITX. . .cause some of the cases look really appealing. . .

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Offline kitamesume

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2012, 09:12:05 PM »
Quote from: GoGeTa006 on December 30, 2012, 06:40:00 PM
My overall budget is going to be around 1200 dlls maybe can push it s lil further. . . Actually less, cause im also getting a 24" monitor. . .

I was looking at around 220ish for the cpu (i5)
300ish for the video card
80ish for an ssd
150ish for a mobo
60ish for ram
180 for case/psu


i dont think ill be getting a full tower. . .I dont need that much space, i dont plan on sli, i only have 3 hdd + 1 ssd and dont need more than one optical drive

Thats why ive considered micro and ITX. . .cause some of the cases look really appealing. . .

i technically have pretty much what you wanted on the spoilers on the first two.

Quote from: kitamesume on December 30, 2012, 08:52:15 AM
Quote from: kitamesume on December 28, 2012, 07:25:19 PM
a build like these works:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

notes: the first two is definitely overkill for a general purpose PC, the 3rd one is a little too beefy for the avg joe, while the last one is the "just about right".

edit: as for the slightly over $600 claim for the i3+HD7770.
(click to show/hide)


as for temps on ITX, most components can tolerate 45c ambient temps (inside case), CPU can run fine at 70c core temps while GPU can tolerate 80c core temps.
now to point out, recent architectures such as kepler and ivy bridge runs cool enough for ITX cases, some ITX cases are ventilated enough for overclocking as well.

speaking of small form factors : http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1037763691
PS: they aren't suffering any temps issues, mind you.
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Offline Saras

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #77 on: December 31, 2012, 05:34:05 AM »
50% on topic, but I found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWAeZYB9DGg and god dangit, I want one of those. Dunno about the overall cost of it all, but if it ads up to about the cost you specified, here you have a gaming ITX computer.
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Online Tiffanys

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #78 on: December 31, 2012, 06:16:36 AM »
Quote from: Saras on December 31, 2012, 05:34:05 AM
50% on topic, but I found this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWAeZYB9DGg and god dangit, I want one of those. Dunno about the overall cost of it all, but if it ads up to about the cost you specified, here you have a gaming ITX computer.

You can see at ~15:40 on there one of the biggest problems with m/ITX builds. You can't fit the majority of the long newer GPU's.
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Offline Saras

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Re: Starting to build my new rig, looking for opinions
« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2012, 10:10:45 AM »
Yes, but they did fit the 670 and that's good enough for me.
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