Author Topic: Help with a new rig. (Read 890 times)

Sherlock · « **on:** December 27, 2012, 07:20:18 AM »

So, after 7 years, I'm finally planning on getting a new rig. My current system was outdated a week after I took it[7 years ago].. Goes to show my luck :/ I do realize there've been tons of topics about stuff like this, but since I couldn't make head or tails of it, I figured some hands on advice wouldn't go amiss.

Any suggestions on what are the main things I should be focusing on getting? I have zero knowledge of what is happening currently. The last I kept up with anything was 3 years ago, after which my C.A started, throwing me out of the loop.

I don't plan on doing anything major with it, just a normal PC - some gaming, anime, movies etc.. Why that is important is because, with my current Desktop, probably the only game I can play is Claw. And of course, goes without saying that 10bit is off-limits for this. The current system I'm using is an Intel P4 2.66GHz with 716MB RAM and some sort of a low end Video Card I believe.. That should give you an idea of what a museum piece it is..

What configuration, along with what specific parts[if any], should I focus on mainly. I have a budget constraint of around roughly 1000 USD converted[maybe slightly lesser]. Based on that, what should be main focus? Just the CPU build, ignore sound systems/Monitors/keyboards/mouse etc.

Also, any recommendations on an OS? I'm currently using Ubuntu 11.04 with an lxde environment. 10.10[Maverick Meerkat was the last good Ubuntu I saw, after which it went bloated and to the dogs.] I sure as hell am not planning on getting Windows 8, so it probably is between Debian or Windows 7.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2012, 09:48:16 AM »

I don't mind the bloat of the latest Ubuntus. The only thing that really annoys me about them is that they removed a lot of what used to be default. Aside from that, the bloat is hardly noticeable. It doesn't run any less smoothly for me unless I'm using a Live CD. If it pains you that much, go with Windows 7.

Anyway, my recommendation for CPU is to wait for Haswell, which should be out by June. If you can't wait until then, Ivy Bridge should be fine. Some mid-grade i3 or low-end i5 should suit your needs. Even an Ivy Bridge Pentium or Celeron should be enough, but if you want to do 10-bit 1080p, you'll probably want to move up the chain.

Video cards I can't give you any recommendations for, but if your gaming does not get really intense, you can keep it cheap here.

For RAM, 8GB DDR3 is standard these days. Just make sure that the RAM you buy clocks at a speed equal or higher than the CPU's memory speed, and get something that's rated an average of no less than 5 eggs on Newegg with at least 20 ratings. G.Skill is a big name for RAM.

Be sure to get an SSD for your boot disk (do your research). Prices on those have dropped to a point where it doesn't make sense to boot off of an HDD just to save a few bucks. Intel is best for reliability but their performance is a little lacking. Corsair makes stuff that is better for performance. I personally like G.Skill's stuff, though they are a smaller name for SSDs. Be sure to also grab an HDD for data storage.

For PSU, Corsair is solid, as are ThermalTake and Antec. Again, do your research.

For motherboards, generally the big names are ASUS, Gigabyte, and Asrock. Make sure you get the right socket for your CPU, and pick something that works for what you want to do (PCI-e for your video card, at least four slots for RAM, etc.). As always, do your research.

Skip the sound card entirely if you are any less than an audiophile, which most are. Onboard sound is usually good enough.

As for case, see what reviewers rated well and what you think looks nice. Lian Li is a top manufacturer for cases. Close behind it are Corsair and Antec.

If you want an actual build, there are a few people around the forums (like kitamesume, for example) who will put a list of parts together for you. You should also lower your budget constraint to around $800, because "some gaming, anime, movies etc." should not need much more than $800.

kitamesume · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2012, 04:26:06 PM »

trinity is a hit when it comes to "just the regular PC that does everything" builds, on the contrary it saves you the hassle of grabbing GPUs which actually saves some dough.
on the other hand, they tend to pale in performance and efficiency when compared to even a lowly i3, an i5 would've been a snag if you only wanted raw cpu muscle.

do you prefer a few builds though, like an ITX build(small package, its cute and really nice), a tower build (full atx paired with a full tower case), or a compact build (m-atx paired with a small but spacy case).

----

tips:
as much as you can, aim for motherboards with an onboard ALC889/ALC898 sound, they're one of the cream-of-the-crop onboard sound that actually has the decency of being able to compare with budget soundcards like the xonar dg/x.
this would be a great asset if you still stick with analog audio with your speakers, and a good pair with a decent pair of headphones.

2x8GB kits just started dropping it's price, maybe due to it being christmas, its a good pick, specially if you have four slots of ram since you would be able to push for 4x8GB later down the road if you ever need to.

purchasing a split SSD is better than purchasing a single large SSD, you don't need an evenly sized SSD as well, 64-80GB for the OS and 128-256GB for the heavy apps like games and such. the advantage of this is that the read/write throughput is theoretically doubled, or at least the read/write load is split into two SSDs.

if you go with an intel build, you're pretty much stuck with grabbing a GPU, although trinity's IGP isn't great either but they can at least push recent titles at optimal settings.
i suggest not going below a pick of HD7870 or GTX660, they're the minimum cards if you want high-max @ 1080p.
on a side note, there should be a release of the HD8000 series by next year march, aim for an HD8870 if you ever get the chance to. theres also the GTX700 series going out by june, a GTX760 would be another choice.

to point out, the requirements of a "just the regular PC that does everything" only needs an A10-5800K or an i3-3220+HD7770 as the minimum and they barely go over $600. which means with a budget of $800-1000, you may be able to squeeze in a high tier rig (strictly intel though) like an i5-3570K+GTX670.

Sherlock · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2012, 05:35:53 PM »

I was thinking of getting the 2x4GB G.Skill Sniper series for RAM. Motherboard, I'm mostly going to stick with Intel, as servicing, in case any needed over here, is a pita for others.

I'm planning on the intel build itself.. And maybe an ATI Radeon or nVidia dedicated GPU. I'm still unsure of which and what to buy, although GTX670 sounds nice..!

I'm going for a tower build with twin fans, though I'm not sure which(Corsair seems to look good.)

I'm still not sure if I should actually try for an SSD though. Seems overkill for me, considering I'm just going to be using it as a normal PC, without any encoding or any such.

kitamesume · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2012, 07:25:19 PM »

you're really missing out on the cheaper ram deals

short comparison:
[$44.99]G.SKILL Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Desktop Memory
[$79.99]G.SKILL Sniper 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Desktop Memory
[$64.99]CORSAIR Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600Desktop Memory

nvidia seems to be the better choice when you're considering high tier graphics card (GTX660Ti-GTX670), the only worth purchase from AMD at the moment are HD7750, HD7770, HD7850 and HD7950, possibly a few options from HD7970(most of them aren't worth it, talking about brands).

(click to show/hide)

twin front fans? which would mean going ATX build isn't an issue, i recommend corsair carbide 300R for it's simplicity while being spacy.

going for an SSD is far from overkill, the performance boost just doesn't profit applications alone but daily usage as well, the most noticeable improvement is that the system responsiveness becomes more fluid with an SSD.

a build like these works:

(click to show/hide)

notes: the first two is definitely overkill for a general purpose PC, the 3rd one is a little too beefy for the avg joe, while the last one is the "just about right".

edit: as for the slightly over $600 claim for the i3+HD7770.

(click to show/hide)

Tatsujin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2012, 06:18:34 AM »

Are you able to hold off for another 4 months (or less)? If so, you can unleash a more powerful rig for the same amount you want to spend. If you save up more money (about 500 USD) you can build one hell of a rig, period. The price quotes on everything you see now will eventually drop when the new computer parts come out. Intel's Haswell and nVidia's GTX 760-780 and (possibly, correct me if I'm wrong) DDR4 are all on the way in few months. Be patient ... like me, lol.

kitamesume · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2012, 06:21:31 AM »

ddr4 wouldn't be coming out anytime soon, the rumors had them only being available for the servers till 2014.

Tatsujin · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2012, 06:22:59 AM »

Quote from: kitamesume on December 29, 2012, 06:21:31 AM

ddr4 wouldn't be coming out anytime soon, the rumors had them only being available for the servers till 2014.

Thanks, I was wondering if something was off and felt like the information I was reading on wasn't accurate enough to justify this. You mention that they're only for servers for 2014, how about personal desktops?

kitamesume · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2012, 06:35:48 AM »

i mean't they do start manufacturing ddr4 by 2013 but they're only available for servers until 2014, by 2014 there should be desktop counterparts although shares would still be at the low side, by 2015 we should see a large majority of drams being ddr4.

not to mention theres no announcements of motherboards supporting ddr4 by 2013, and this is the only nearest news there is.
http://www.techspot.com/news/50302-jedec-finalizes-ddr4-spec-coming-to-a-pc-near-you-in-2015.html

Quote

In April, it was reported that Intel expected to begin supporting DDR4 in high-end four-socket Haswell-EX servers by early 2014. Meanwhile, its consumer platforms may not support the spec until 2015, as 2013's 22nm Haswell and 2014's 14nm Broadwell architectures will both use DDR3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR4_SDRAM

Quote

DDR4 is expected to represent 5% of the DRAM market in 2013, and to reach mass market adoption and 50% market penetration around 2015; the latter is comparable with the approximately 5 years taken for DDR3 to achieve mass market transition over DDR2. In part, this is because changes required to other components would impact all other parts of computer systems, which would need to be updated to work with DDR4.

news:
http://www.techspot.com/news/50302-jedec-finalizes-ddr4-spec-coming-to-a-pc-near-you-in-2015.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/27/jedec_ddr4_spec/

Southrop · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2012, 06:41:06 AM »

SSDs are no way overkill any more. The performance upgrade from having an SSD as my primary drive was so huge that I now get impatient at my laptop which doesn't have an SSD lol.

By the way, I think this is worth reading, Sherlock. Ars do some really detailed system guides. Not tailored to everyone, but I think their guides work as a good starting point. I try to base my builds of the hotrod and tune up or down depending on price, but they hadn't done a new guide for like a year when I was building. In the end, my current build is pretty much on the same level as their hotrod except a bit overkill in some locations (e.g. 750W power supply and like 5 scythe gentle typhoon fans lol) http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/12/ars-technica-system-guide-december-2012/

kitamesume · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2012, 06:43:56 AM »

speaking of powersupplies, there was a heated debate a few threads back, heh.

http://forums.bakabt.me/index.php?topic=36721.40

(click to show/hide)

Sherlock · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2012, 06:44:35 AM »

I'm trying to look at a more lower end Graphics card, as the current ones mentioned overshoot my budget here in local stores. How are something like GT610Synergy or GTX630 Synergy?
I generally tend to play games like Fifa 13, C.O.D-MW#, Diablo, Assasin's Creed, F1, Arkham Asylum, Dishonored etc.. You get the drift. Question is, will something like those above run smoothly on the lower end cards?

I can get a lower end Graphics card now, and maybe upgrade to a higher-end one after a couple of years or is that not advisable?

As of now, what I have in mind is

[234$]intel Core i5 3570
[184$]ASRock 277 Extreme 4
[55$]G.Skill RipjawsX DDR3 (1x8GB)
[81$]Corsair 300R
[81$]Seagate 1TB Internal
Whatever Graphics Card+Fan that I decide upon.
It's around 35000INR here, which is roughly 650$ converted. Since I'm still a student, this budget itself is getting the frowns now. Corsair RAM doesn't seem to have too much buyers here, hence I'm having a difficulty finding it online..

Looking at the build, it seems low-mid end range, which, frankly, is ok by me for now. Although, if there are any lower-end models with almost similar level performances, that'd be beautiful too

Also, any recommendations for fans? I mostly have a general picture of what to get now, except for the Graphics Card.

Edit: The budget-box seems decent, Southie. I'm having a deeper glance at that one too.

Edit: The above config which I selected sorta reminds of a mid-level Specs with low-end Graphics Card. That's preferable or the other way around? i3+GTX660?

zherok · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:07:48 AM »

From what I've read, the 610, 620, and 630 GeForce cards are slightly repackaged variants of low end 5xx cards. You're probably not going to have a fun time playing most of those games on one of them.

kitamesume · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:09:15 AM »

HD7750 is the lowest card i can recommend, if only the GTX650 was similarly priced i would've suggested that instead since they perform quite identically.

grabbing the most optimum card and swapping it out a few years later is what the best thing to do, as a matter of facts its what gamers do, swapping theirs every 2years or so. you can't really expect to be able to handle everything after a few years from now.

the i5-3570 isn't a mid-end but a mainstream high-end processor, the real mid-end are the i5-3470, while the low-mid end is where the i3 is, also the low-ends is where the pentiums and celerons are.
the difference of an i3 and an i5 isn't much on regular workloads, the i5 shines when you step at the field where you need the extra two true cores like encoding and heavy multi-tasking. and also if you note of the price difference its quite a steep investment.

can you list a few of the fans you have locally? corsair, cougar, noctua, Scythe, etc.
a few things to note:
Noctua NF P12 = best used on drive cages, heatsinks, vents w/ tight grills.
Noctua NF S12B = best used on free-flow vents.
Corsair SP120 = best used on drive cages, heatsinks, vents w/ tight grills.
Corsair AF120 = best used on free-flow vents.
Cougar CF V12HP = best used on free-flow vents.
Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm 1850rpm = can be used on pretty much anything.
Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm 5400rpm = can be used on pretty much anything, be warned, its a banshee that can scream.

i recommend grabbing corsair SP120 for heatsinks and exhausts, while taking either a Noctua NF S12B or gentle typhoon 1850rpm as an intake.

Southrop · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:20:26 AM »

With graphics cards, don't go for low end ones. You will get better performance buying an older generation card. And older cards will be quite a bit cheaper too (not sure exactly how they compare price wise to low end cards though). I bought a GTX570 since the 6XX series was more than I was willing to pay. GTX570 still performs loads better than a GT610.

Tatsujin · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:35:38 AM »

Quote from: Sherlock on December 29, 2012, 06:44:35 AM

I'm trying to look at a more lower end Graphics card, as the current ones mentioned overshoot my budget here in local stores. How are something like GT610Synergy or GTX630 Synergy?
I generally tend to play games like Fifa 13, C.O.D-MW#, Diablo, Assasin's Creed, F1, Arkham Asylum, Dishonored etc.. You get the drift. Question is, will something like those above run smoothly on the lower end cards?

I can get a lower end Graphics card now, and maybe upgrade to a higher-end one after a couple of years or is that not advisable?

As of now, what I have in mind is

[234$]intel Core i5 3570
[184$]ASRock 277 Extreme 4
[55$]G.Skill RipjawsX DDR3 (1x8GB)
[81$]Corsair 300R
[81$]Seagate 1TB Internal
Whatever Graphics Card+Fan that I decide upon.
It's around 35000INR here, which is roughly 650$ converted. Since I'm still a student, this budget itself is getting the frowns now. Corsair RAM doesn't seem to have too much buyers here, hence I'm having a difficulty finding it online..

Looking at the build, it seems low-mid end range, which, frankly, is ok by me for now. Although, if there are any lower-end models with almost similar level performances, that'd be beautiful too

Also, any recommendations for fans? I mostly have a general picture of what to get now, except for the Graphics Card.

So your budget is 650 USD? -pulls out newegg wishlist-

Under 650 USD - Let me know if your able to view this list.

Make sure you use the following promo codes:

EMCJHHB22 PSU
EMCJHHB38 RAM
MBASUS1227 MOBO

Each code reduces the price by 10 dollars, which ultimately gives you a total price of 693 USD. Change whatever you want, thou' this is what I would go for a good standard build for a gamer and multi-tasking and heavy processing. This is a little above your budget, you can change the case and fan to your liking thou I still would recommend both of those.

You do not wanna get cheap with a motherboard, case and a fan. Those three play an important role on how much stress, pressure and heat your equipment will bare.

P.S. I do not recommend Seagate HDDs. Stay away from them.

Southrop · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:38:15 AM »

Last time I checked, Newegg doesn't ship outside of NA, so those promo codes aren't much help

And dunno if its just me, it seems a newegg account is needed to see that wishlist

Tatsujin · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:42:35 AM »

Quote from: Southrop on December 29, 2012, 07:38:15 AM

Last time I checked, Newegg doesn't ship outside of NA, so those promo codes aren't much help

And dunno if its just me, it seems a newegg account is needed to see that wishlist

Oh hmm, well it was a good idea to update the 600 USD list. Is anyone able to see the list with an account? Or else, how do you view it without an account? This is a Saved Wishlist.

On another note, man this is so fucking tempting to purchase RIGHT NOW! Replacing few parts and reducing the price for a more powerful rig. I still sport 2x GTX 560 Ti SC (EVGA) so I can just shove one in that new rig. Urgh ... must - be - patient.

Sherlock · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:46:00 AM »

I'm going hunting for fans and the older GPU [FlipKart doesn't have them listed properly] with local dealers. I *should* be able to get a good price and better range for those..

Also Tatsujin, I don't think it's viewable without a newegg acount. Although, since newegg doesn't ship internationally, I won't be able to get anything from there. And over here, apparently, there's a Custom Duty on electronics at 60% of the total value, if the value of the goods is above 10000INR - Crazy stuff :\

Edit: Don't seem to be able to view it even with an account..

Edit 2: Also, I thought Seagate was atleast decent with Internal HDDs? Or is that not the case anymore? Which is better? - Western Digital I guess?

Southrop · « **Reply #19 on:** December 29, 2012, 07:55:31 AM »

I guess the Newegg wishlist is just a private wishlist. Unlike Amazon's ListManias. Here's my current rig if anyone's interested. http://www.amazon.co.uk/lm/R28SI8B4FX92VN/

On harddrives, I stopped trusting Seagate a long time ago. I used to get Samsung drives when I could, but Samsung's hard drive line was sold to Seagate, and now I have no idea if I get good ones or bad ones from Seagate. WD is more trustworthy than Seagate in my experience anyway. I haven't had a single WD drive die on me. But WD Blacks are pricey. Recently, I've been leaning to Hitachi for my drives. Got a 2TB Hitachi DeskStar drive for my desktop and it's going great so far.

Houkouonchi uses Hitachis all the time and not a single failure apparently.