Author Topic: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany  (Read 2425 times)

Offline Gottlich

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WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« on: January 05, 2013, 11:01:51 AM »
Hello,

anyone come from Germany?

My German teacher says that Torrent-ing is prohibited there and my friends say that someone already got caught by the police because of it.
The case was in Hannover, they said.
I don't know whether downloading anime and related stuff is also prohibited or not. So I think it's best to ask here.

I'm asking this because I'm going to study and stay in Germany for a while.

Can anyone clarify me or give me any information about it?
I don't want to abandon BakaBt if I can.

'Amorphous Plate Wiggle' - means, I've read the FAQ.

Regards.

Offline SirSkyRider

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2013, 11:38:00 AM »
As far as I know, downloading via torrent is not illegal, whereas uploading is. But I'll need to reconfirm that.

Offline brunoais

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 12:08:59 PM »
My German teacher says that Torrent-ing is prohibited there and my friends say that someone already got caught by the police because of it.
Torrenting is legal.
About 95% (dunno the actual real numbers) of the torrents are illegal, that's why many generalize as 'em being illegal.
I don't know whether downloading anime and related stuff is also prohibited or not. So I think it's best to ask here.
It's illegal to download anime.
Can anyone clarify me or give me any information about it?
I don't want to abandon BakaBt if I can.
The probability of being caught is minimal, but still, it's possible.
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Please!!! I need hentai recommendation here: http://forums.bakabt.me/index.php?topic=28566
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Offline Bob2004

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 12:12:56 PM »
I think in practice, when it comes to anime you're only going to be running any risk by downloading anime that has been licensed, or is soon to be licensed, in Germany. Japanese rightsholders won't waste time and money prosecuting people in other countries where they wouldn't make any money anyway, even if people didn't torrent it.

With other content, the risk is obviously much higher, but I'm not sure how high exactly.

Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 12:44:11 PM »
They rarely sue people, but when they do, it's for obscene amounts. That's really all. If you don't get caught, whatever.

That's how it's like around here anyway. Can't really speak for Germany.

Sweet, someone quoted the passphrase from the FAQ. Last time that happened was at least a month ago.

Offline buchno

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2013, 12:57:09 PM »
They rarely sue people, but when they do, it's for obscene amounts. That's really all. If you don't get caught, whatever.
Wouldn't it be more effective for them if they did it the other way around; often suing people (rightfully), but for smaller amounts? Wouldn't that lead to less people taking the risk?
...or is that what the three strikes rule in the US introduced already?

Offline desti

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 02:54:13 PM »
I think in practice, when it comes to anime you're only going to be running any risk by downloading anime that has been licensed, or is soon to be licensed, in Germany. Japanese rightsholders won't waste time and money prosecuting people in other countries where they wouldn't make any money anyway, even if people didn't torrent it.

With other content, the risk is obviously much higher, but I'm not sure how high exactly.

That's the way it is. German lawyer agencies may sue you for downloading and/or uploading licensed content (mostly music and movies). Since most anime and other stuff here on bakabt isn't licensed in Germany there won't be much of a problem for you.

Offline FlyinPenguin

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 08:18:44 PM »
Gotta love people who don't understand the law or technology and then spread misinformation as fact.

I don't have knowledge of German law but I assume, like most people in prior posts have said, its the type of content you download that will get you in trouble, not simply using the torrent protocol.

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | [url=http://www.anime-

Offline Gottlich

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 02:01:00 AM »
Hello everyone, thank you for your replies.

Ok then, I'm concluding all the replies:

1. Torrent-ing is legal, what could be illegal is the content of the Torrent.
2. Therefore it is legal to download unlicensed anime and related stuff.

CMIIW and thank you very much.

Regards.


Offline FlyinPenguin

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 03:24:45 AM »
Now go school your teacher and friends :P

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Online Tiffanys

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 03:37:57 AM »
Quote
2. Therefore it is legal to download unlicensed anime and related stuff.

Wrong. It's illegal.

Offline FlyinPenguin

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 04:12:15 AM »
Quote
2. Therefore it is legal to download unlicensed anime and related stuff.

Wrong. It's illegal.

How is it illegal if the Japanese copyright holder's don't have the material copyrighted in Germany? Is this a German law that protects copyrighted material regardless of where the copyright is held?

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | [url=http://www.anime-

Offline zherok

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 04:23:59 AM »
Pretty sure that international copyright agreements, like this one would apply.

Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2013, 07:11:43 AM »
How is it illegal if the Japanese copyright holder's don't have the material copyrighted in Germany? Is this a German law that protects copyrighted material regardless of where the copyright is held?

It certainly is illegal, regardless of location. Typically, though, Japanese companies don't want to get involved in such affairs, so they just turn a blind eye, and they are the only ones who can actually press charges, being the creators of the original material. That's the reason why we kinda brush off the whole legality issue. If they started pursuing action, BakaBT would probably start blacklisting a lot more than just Funimation stuff.

So no, it's not exactly a German law in particular. If anything, it'd be protected by Japanese copyright laws, because that is where the material originated from, or the international copyright agreement linked above.

Wouldn't it be more effective for them if they did it the other way around; often suing people (rightfully), but for smaller amounts? Wouldn't that lead to less people taking the risk?
...or is that what the three strikes rule in the US introduced already?

Of course it would. However, doing something like that is very expensive, so if they don't sue for obscene amounts (and win), it's hardly worth spending the time.

I think it's six strikes, but yeah, I think that it works kinda in that way. Not positive about that though.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 07:14:51 AM by Freedom Kira »

Offline Bob2004

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2013, 09:51:25 AM »
Wouldn't it be more effective for them if they did it the other way around; often suing people (rightfully), but for smaller amounts? Wouldn't that lead to less people taking the risk?
...or is that what the three strikes rule in the US introduced already?

Of course it would. However, doing something like that is very expensive, so if they don't sue for obscene amounts (and win), it's hardly worth spending the time.

I think it's six strikes, but yeah, I think that it works kinda in that way. Not positive about that though.

What they usually do - and now I think of it, I have a feeling this is particularly common in Germany - is they harvest several thousand IP addresses, file a request with the courts to have the personal details of all those account holders revealed, then send them all letters demanding they pay a load of money as compensation, or they'll be taken to court and sued for huge amounts.

So they manage to get the majority to pay up, without any of the expenses of having to actually use the legal system, beyond the initial discovery.

Offline SirSkyRider

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 10:28:35 AM »
What they usually do - and now I think of it, I have a feeling this is particularly common in Germany - is they harvest several thousand IP addresses, file a request with the courts to have the personal details of all those account holders revealed, then send them all letters demanding they pay a load of money as compensation, or they'll be taken to court and sued for huge amounts.

Yes, that is a common practice – however, it occurs very rarely and in many cases, it is barely legal.

Offline Bob2004

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 10:45:55 AM »
What they usually do - and now I think of it, I have a feeling this is particularly common in Germany - is they harvest several thousand IP addresses, file a request with the courts to have the personal details of all those account holders revealed, then send them all letters demanding they pay a load of money as compensation, or they'll be taken to court and sued for huge amounts.

Yes, that is a common practice – however, it occurs very rarely and in many cases, it is barely legal.

Indeed. You're unlikely to have any problem with it unless you're downloading porn, or films/music from smaller studios/record labels. But I think it has actually been ruled to be legal in Germany - hence it being so prevalent there. Though I might be confusing it with something else.

Offline SirSkyRider

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 11:02:31 AM »
Indeed. You're unlikely to have any problem with it unless you're downloading porn, or films/music from smaller studios/record labels. But I think it has actually been ruled to be legal in Germany - hence it being so prevalent there. Though I might be confusing it with something else.

The people that send out these letters are rarely law offices. They're mostly collection agencies (or something of the sort) – nothing official about these practices. If it were a term of legal action, an officially appointed lawyer would be involved. Plus, most of these offices demand payment via paysafecard or something similar - no law office would demand money in the first place, and especially not in such a manner.

What you should do if you come across this: Go see a lawyer and ask for a C&D letter. Do not pay and do not simply ignore it.

Offline revo

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 11:58:50 AM »
Quote
2. Therefore it is legal to download unlicensed anime and related stuff.

Wrong. It's illegal.

How is it illegal if the Japanese copyright holder's don't have the material copyrighted in Germany? Is this a German law that protects copyrighted material regardless of where the copyright is held?
So just  because you don't live in japan you can have it for free ?

Offline Lillymon

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Re: WTA: Torrent-ing in Germany
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 12:22:04 PM »
How is it illegal if the Japanese copyright holder's don't have the material copyrighted in Germany? Is this a German law that protects copyrighted material regardless of where the copyright is held?
Read up on the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.