Discussion Forums > Politics
So, whose the next one to get the nice hat?
occasional:
--- Quote from: Tiffanys on February 21, 2013, 10:29:00 AM ---I'd like to imagine that dragons existed but whatever gas made them light and allowed them to breath fire also ended up turning their remains to ash after they died. Of course, that's not to say I do...
In regards to prayer, I think it's a mental disorder akin to schizophrenia. In fact, I think most devoutly religious people suffer from this ailment. You know, those people who can see something with a seemingly obvious scientific explanation and say "it must have been the work of god!" and then when something bad happens they turn around and say "well, god must have a plan." Listening to these people I just can't help but feel bad for how pathetic they've become. It's just as bad as the damn primitives sacrificing people because they think the drought they're going through is punishment from their gods. People nowadays have equally ridiculous beliefs but we call it "faith," and somehow it's okay.
It's not okay... these people are sick, and they need help. They've mentally devolved back thousands of years...
--- End quote ---
You have to make a distinction between people who merely believe in religion and people who actually believe they see or are in touch with the imaginary beings they believe in.
The first case is no different from what the vast majority of people, including atheists, do, which is to believe in the unproven merely because it fits one's political/social ideology or worldview, and to go to enormous lengths to rationalize their decisions and views. To some extent this is unavoidable because it's our nature, but most people aren't even aware they're doing it.
Believing in something without real proof, especially if it fits your worldview, is irrational.
(A good book on this subject is Irrationality bu Stuart Sutherland).
In the latter case, House said it best, as always:
--- Quote ---If you talk to God you're religious. If God talks to you, you're psychotic
--- End quote ---
.
Tiffanys:
Talking to yourself and expecting an answer is irrational.
Seeing something happen like a repair man coming and fixing your electric as a miraculous work of god rather than just your neighbor calling and reporting the power out, is not only irrational but delusional. These people actually believe shit like this...
Someone that's sick gets better? It's the work of god. Had to be a miracle. No, couldn't have been the Doctors caring for them, had to be a mysterious act of the divine. Cat comes home? Couldn't have been a territorial animal that stays in the same area anyways that got hungry, no... had to be god.
I can go on and on, it's just ludicrous. And that's even without getting to the point that people are thinking they're actually hearing back from the divine.
Though, physically hearing a response and believing practically anything is a response is just as bad in my opinion. Both cases are borderline schizophrenia.
With that said, I don't know many Atheists that believe in something that can't be proved. Disbelieve in something that can't be proved perhaps, but not the other way around.
Nikkoru:
--- Quote from: Ixarku on February 21, 2013, 10:57:27 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nikkoru on February 21, 2013, 05:51:19 AM ---Yes I have. It isn't equivalent to prayer. In fact, conceptually speaking meditation's diametrically opposed to prayer despite having religious significance in some contexts.
--- End quote ---
I remember seeing one of those Discovery channel-type science programs where some scientist was doing MRIs or the like on people during prayer and during meditation, and found that a different area of the brain was active for people during prayer. Of course, he didn't draw any conclusions as to why this difference occurred, he just noted that it did occur.
--- End quote ---
Meditation may be used for a variety of purposes, but it's inherently introspective. Whether you are achieving focus or tranquility, conventional thought is what you're trying to escape. Usually you try to create a visual you can concentrate on, an utterance that's otherwise meaningless, or attempt to quiet all thought... which is damned hard. It requires the parts of your brain least concerned with your inner voice, and a lot of time and effort to achieve.
Prayer is about transmitting your thoughts outward into the divine -- whatever you believe that means. You think loudly in the general direction of everywhere, much like in normal conversation or when reading. It's a simple, comforting ritual -- with no real difference for a layman than for a priest except in potential repetition.
The difference between meditation and prayer seems irrelevant until you get into comparative theology and neurology.
Here's an article on the study you are probably referencing, comparing brain activity under prayer and meditation -- and between the religious and atheists.
--- Quote from: Ixarku on February 21, 2013, 10:57:27 AM ---
--- Quote from: Burkingam on February 21, 2013, 05:01:53 AM ---Since when do government don't have a monopoly on incompetency, delusions and stupidity?
--- End quote ---
You know, I'm sick of Americans using the "government is bad" excuse for not solving problems. It pisses me off because the people that fill those government positions are us. We put them there. If only the cream of the crap get elected, then the responsibility falls squarely on the American people for tolerating such incompetence. Conversely, if elected & appointed officials are a representative sample of Americans, then how sad are we as a people for putting so many incompetent boobs in power. The problem isn't this nebulous concept of big government -- the problem is American tolerance for mediocrity. So yeah Burk you are completely right -- the same pool of people wrecking things in the government are the same people who are wrecking things in the private sector.
--- End quote ---
The propensity for so-called conservatives to blur the lines between ineffective government and all government in the last 3 decades has contributed to that. It gives a carte blanche excuse to undermine government completely. Resulting in -- with no small amount of sour irony -- government being legitimately ineffective. The simple act of saying government isn't an evil leech we must kill and Americans have some obligations to participate in the public sphere and improve things, got Obama stuck in Stalin-hood for millions. Good leadership requires fundamentally that one cares, caring about your country in anything but the most superficial ways is somewhat out of vogue.
Still, I'd prefer living in America than being a Catholic anywhere as it stands.
Burkingam:
--- Quote from: jaybug on February 21, 2013, 05:33:30 AM ---http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399877/?ref_=sr_1
I assume you are asking me, because I doubt you ask Burk anything. lol But yes I have. Pray more often now, it's like the short form to me. Do you?
http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/0743498968/0743498968.htm?blurb&__utma=222178315.242732488.1361427999.1361427999.1361427999.1&__utmb=222178315.4.10.1361427999&__utmc=222178315&__utmx=-&__utmz=222178315.1361427999.1.1.utmcsr=%28direct%29|utmccn=%28direct%29|utmcmd=%28none%29&__utmv=-&__utmk=152677946
Dude, he's got the phDs not me.
--- End quote ---
Lets pretend for the sack of argument that all this new age crap is serious business. Lets pretend that we actually have established scientifically that thinking something somehow makes it so and that as you seem to be suggesting, believing something is equivalent of wishing it.
Then, may I ask why would you want green technologies to fail? Why would you want big governments to be corrupt and inefficient? Why would you want poor people to be lazy? Why would you want illegal immigrants to be the bane of society as opposed to just normal people who wish to come live a productive life in USA? Hey if you want to take leftist fringe ideas you should try to get all the good parts that come with it.
jaybug:
--- Quote ---If only the cream of the crap get elected,
--- End quote ---
I see what you did there! lmao!
Ix, it isn't the elected officials that bother me as much s it is the unelected bureaucrats that cannot be removed except by death no matter how incompetent.
When a private concern is poorly run it goes out of business, unless it is too big to fail, wherein it gets a taxpayer handout. ON the other hand, when a government run entity is run into the ground, they throw more money at it, and make no effort to make it run better, revise it or anything. If it is run so badly, what they do is make an entirely new outfit to do the same thing as the old one, so now there are two pieces of shit sucking up tax money and providing little benefit to the people whom they are to benefit.
That's right Ix, they are the same people. So why does the left think that if business is evil, government will be any better?
Man, I am so glad I do not have your concepts of religion, spirituality, or whatever. What you think absolutely horrifies me.
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