Question on VPN's

[buchno]

...also, as you only download stuff from trackers to the seedbox, it doesn't really matter if the company can see the files, since there shouldn't be any personal information there.

If you rent it as a dedicated server and host your own site/game server/etc, though, it might matter depending on what you host.

[Tiffanys]

You should be more paranoid of not using a seedbox. Check out my post here.

[Bob2004]

You should be more paranoid of not using a seedbox. Check out my post here.

I disagree with your assertion that VPNs are only designed for browsing the web, and aren't useful for anything else. A VPN is literally just an extra hop in your internet connection, with encryption/decryption. Assuming the VPN service has bandwidth equal to or better than your own internet connection - and it isn't hard to find services which do, unless you have stupidly fast 100Mb+ fibre or whatever - and assuming the VPN server isn't too far out of the way (eg. using a VPN server in Japan will really slow you down if you live in Europe, etc), you'll lose maybe 5% of your maximum internet speed while using it. And the same applies when downloading from seedboxes anyway, since they also require the encryption/decryption phase.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Unless you have really fast internet to begin with, and unless you can't find a decent, affordable VPN service which can match it, and has servers located nearby (I'm based in the UK, and used a Swiss VPN server for a long time, which worked well), I'd say VPN is better, since it is far more versatile, and can protect you in far more ways, from far more threats. If you can't meet those two criteria, then a seedbox is better.

[KasK18]

The real question is, how much of a hit would a VPN cause? I know it's server dependent but, for analogies sake, humor me for a second; I'm in the US and use Verizon FIOS, my upload download speeds are roughly 26 Mbps (that's megabits per second I believe, note bytes) and 16 Mbps is my upload. If I use, say, Canada or somewhere in Europe, Germany for example, to tunnel my traffic through, how much of a hit am I look it at roughly?

[Bob2004]

The real question is, how much of a hit would a VPN cause? I know it's server dependent but, for analogies sake, humor me for a second; I'm in the US and use Verizon FIOS, my upload download speeds are roughly 26 Mbps (that's megabits per second I believe, note bytes) and 16 Mbps is my upload. If I use, say, Canada or somewhere in Europe, Germany for example, to tunnel my traffic through, how much of a hit am I look it at roughly?

It all depends entirely on how fast the VPN server is, and how far away it is. You can get VPNs which are lightning fast and can even put out 26Mb/s bandwidth consistently, but whether there are any close enough to you to avoid increasing latency too much, and whether or not you can afford them all depends on your location and how much you're willing to spend.

Basically, there are too many variables to give you a good answer. But as speed increases, price also increases a lot too, so I'd say choices will be relatively limited at 26Mb/s. That said, while Canada may or may not be close enough depending on where in Canada (and where you are in the US), anywhere in Europe or Asia is pretty much right out. Being so far apart will add at least 100ms or so onto your ping, probably more, which will noticeably impact speeds (though not necessarily bandwidth so much).

[KasK18]

I should probably clarify that 26 Mbps is megabits per second, not Megabytes =p My actual megabytes per second is 3.25 or so, upload is around 1.8 or so I think...but regardless, your point still stands, and I figured as much =p

[Bob2004]

I should probably clarify that 26 Mbps is megabits per second, not Megabytes =p My actual megabytes per second is 3.25 or so, upload is around 1.8 or so I think...but regardless, your point still stands, and I figured as much =p

Yeah, I know. Standard notation is Mb for Megabits, and MB for megabytes. Though so many people use the two interchangeably, it can be impossible to tell sometimes.

I guess "lightning fast" was a tiny bit of an exaggeration, but at that point you are definitely getting into relatively expensive territory in terms of VPN speeds (though not necessarily any more expensive than a seedbox).

[buchno]

Yeah, I know. Standard notation is Mb for Megabits, and MB for megabytes. Though so many people use the two interchangeably, it can be impossible to tell sometimes.

If they're talking about speed, it's Mb, and if it's storage, it's MB :]
...although, you know that already.

[Tiffanys]

If you're going to be paying for something, why get reduced speeds and still be limited by your ISP's bandwidth?

A seedbox generally has something ridiculous like 5TB bandwidth and insane connections. It's way more bang for your buck.

For the bandwidth I get with my box I couldn't even pay my ISP enough money to get that kind of bandwidth, not to mention the speed... Even if I had a $100+ a month plan I wouldn't get this kind of bandwidth or speed, and it's just $15 a month... An extra $15 to my ISP on the other hand wouldn't amount to jack shit.

Even with security aside, that alone would make it worth it. It's not like I use that much bandwidth with something that isn't torrents, nor do I need that kind of speed for something that isn't torrents.

Oh and Mb/MB are both used for speed, they're just different notations. I'm terrible at the conversions though, which is why I have this saved: http://www.convertunits.com/from/megabits/to/kilobytes

[Bob2004]

Sure, a seedbox might have amazing speeds - for whatever torrents you're running on it, and absolutely nothing else. Which, for most people, is fairly irrelevant. On BakaBT especially, a high maximum upload bandwidth can only help so much. But if the only thing you care about is being able to seed torrents quickly and relatively securely, then yes, maybe a seedbox is better.

If you're concerned more about being able to download torrents securely (a seedbox offers no benefits when downloading compared to a VPN), and having improved security for other activities (while also bypassing any filtering that might be active on your network - such as the UK TPB block), then a VPN is more useful.

In other words, VPN for all-round security and versatility, seedbox for security and high performance in seeding torrents.

[Tiffanys]

I think you're really underestimating the value of a seedbox... not to mention you get a VPN with one anyways. Hell, and a web server and any other number of things.

[Bob2004]

I think you're really underestimating the value of a seedbox... not to mention you get a VPN with one anyways. Hell, and a web server and any other number of things.

I think you're getting confused between a dedicated server and a seedbox. If you hire out a dedicated server, you can set it up to act like a seedbox (simply by installing rtorrent or whatever), or a VPN, or a web server, or whatever you want, of course. But if you just hire out a seedbox, you cannot. And dedicated servers with enough bandwidth to be equally useful are pretty expensive (although obviously better, if you can afford one).

A seedbox merely provides you with an instance of rtorrent or whatever, some kind of interface for managing that instance (usually web-based), and a set amount of storage space and bandwidth. You can't use it for anything else.

[Tiffanys]

You're quite a presumptuous one, aren't you?

I wasn't referring to dedicated servers, though that can certainly be said as true for them as well. Though if the extent of all you get with your seedbox provider is just rTorrent then that's one shitty provider. You can most certainly set up websevers with a decent seedbox provider, as well as a whole host of other things.

With that said, most come standard with a VPN and FTP. Do you even know anything about seedboxes? Have you ever even owned one? Cause it just sounds like you don't know fuck all and you're just talking out your ass.

[xgraphy]

Though apparently "I'm one to talk", Calm down please.

[sawakosadako]

No Law will survives if everyone ignhttp://forums.bakabt.me/Smileys/default/angry.gifores them

As it has been proved repeatedly by the Russian legal system .

Thank God I live in a developing country. Sometimes, I couldn't help it not to think that I have more freedom living where I am now than living in a so called free country like America. Just look at Japan's censoreship law. It really is an irony

[Bob2004]

You're quite a presumptuous one, aren't you?

I wasn't referring to dedicated servers, though that can certainly be said as true for them as well. Though if the extent of all you get with your seedbox provider is just rTorrent then that's one shitty provider. You can most certainly set up websevers with a decent seedbox provider, as well as a whole host of other things.

With that said, most come standard with a VPN and FTP. Do you even know anything about seedboxes? Have you ever even owned one? Cause it just sounds like you don't know fuck all and you're just talking out your ass.

I've never looked at Whatbox before, and it has admittedly been a few years since I last looked at any seedboxes at all (until now, anyway). The majority of seedbox providers do not, generally, provide anything more than a seedbox. In fact, I'm quite surprised by how much Whatbox seem to offer for the price, I have to say. Quite a bit more space, more bandwidth, and a hell of a lot more flexibility than almost all the other seedbox hosters I've seen. It's pretty impressive.

Having looked at their site then, assuming Whatbox's hosting has the power to handle a high-speed VPN connection, yes - maybe it is a superior alternative to just getting a straight VPN service. Though if you plan to run a VPN on it anyway, it might be worth just going straight to Leaseweb (Whatbox are simply reselling their servers with some pre-configured software) and get it at a lower price (though less storage space, and lower bandwidth caps). On which note, has anyone here tried using a service like that as a VPN before? I'd be interested in hearing how well it worked.

Anyway, this is getting a bit off-topic now, so that's all for me on this discussion. People should always look around at all the available options and see what works best for them anyway.

[Tiffanys]

You clearly need to read up on seedboxes before you go around claiming to know so matter of factly that you know how they are. If you don't know much about something, honestly just leave explaining it to those that do... all you're doing is spreading misinformation to people that don't know better.

First of all, pretty much every single seebox provider I've ever seen has the web client, ftp, and a VPN at the very least. Probably more...

As for the price, it's a total ripoff. Check out OVH's Kimsufi dedi boxes: http://www.ovh.ie/dedicated_servers/kimsufi.xml

$12.99 - 500GB / 5TB Bandwidth / 100mbps
$19.49 - 1TB / 5TB / 100mbps

Compare to Whatbox...

$15 - 200GB / 1.5TB / 150mbps
$25 - 400GB / 2.75TB / 150mbps
$30 - 500GB / 3.5TB / 150mbps
$40 - 700GB / 5TB / 150mbps

You can double the price and still not even get what an OVH box gets, not to mention that OVH are dedicated servers with root access. All data transfers that are also on OVH servers don't use any of your colossal 5TB bandwidth (and considering 75%+ of seedboxes use OVH servers, it's incredibly difficult to use it all).

Heck, look at the next most popular provider that I know of: https://www.feralhosting.com/pricing

What Whatbox has going for it is not space, bandwidth, or speed. They fail against all competition in those categories. What it has is ease of use, ease of setup, some eyecandy, ideal server locations, and a very resentful attitude towards anyone that wants your information. They don't keep any information whatsoever. The only thing they even get from you is your Paypal, and if you use a pre-paid card for that you're 100% anonymous.

An OVH provider may very well require you send them a copy of your drivers license and request every intimate detail of your life depending on what country you're from. Also, *.ie is an Irish domain, and SOPA passed in Ireland. Though, I do believe most of OVH's servers are in France.

The OVH box I had was an infinitely better deal. The only problem was privacy and Irish SOPA passing. When the Irish SOPA passed that's when I dropped my OVH box.

With only 100GB of space, recently moved up to 200GB default, the way I use a seedbox has completely changed as well. I use to just throw practically everything on there and leave it indefinitely. I can't do that now. The space Whatbox provides is extremely restrictive.

The most important thing about a seedbox is not the amount of bandwidth or connection speed... it's the HDD space. Even if you get a 300/300 box if it only has a 100GB HDD you're never going to saturate your peers. You can't use that much bandwidth without a lot of different torrents seeding. You won't get the peerage to saturate the bandwidth.

If I was going to look into getting a seedbox right now I'd be looking at OVH's Kimsufi servers, likely the 2G. But I'd see if I could avoid giving them any personal information. That's the downside to OVH.

edit: Here's what I would do...

If you live in Europe, especially the UK, then go ahead and get an OVH box. They should just require a SMS text message with a 4 digit code which is used to validate the country of origin. You need a valid mobile number with the proper country code. You could probably go buy a crappy prepaid cellphone that has texting to do it as well if you want.

If you live elsewhere then they're going to make you send them a copy of a photo ID like your drivers license, as well as a proof of address such as a utility bill. For someone paranoid about someone having your information, this isn't exactly ideal.

So what you're going to do is make friends with someone in the UK and have them go out and buy you the crappiest prepaid cellphone they can find that has SMS texting (you'll send them the money for it of course). You should be able to get one for about $10 and be charged 10-15¢ per text. But you only need to get one text so that's fine.

Then sign up for an OVH box, make up some bogus address in the UK like a McDonalds in London or something stupid... or whatever city your friend that got you the phone lives in since it'll have the same area code. So then you sign up, you get your friend to tell you the 4 digit code that was texted to the phone, then they can go have batting practice with the phone for all it matters.

You now have an OVH box and all they have from you is bogus information. You'll pay them with a pre-paid credit card of course, so they won't have that information either.

[Bob2004]

Again, I was talking about seedbox providers. Not dedicated server hosting. Whatbox seems good value for what it is - a managed virtual hosting solution, pre-configured as, and sold as, a seedbox. Not a barebones dedicated server, which is what OVH provide. Compared to other seedbox providers, Whatbox seemed to be very good value (compared to those providers I remember from years ago, and compared to my quick look at the 3 or 4 top results when googling for "top seedbox providers"). I agree though, Feral Hosting look like they might be even better than Whatbox.

Incidentally, since you mentioned security:

(click to show/hide)

Whatbox are a Canadian company and make it very clear they are subject to Canadian law, and thus will respond to any legal requirements to divulge your personal information. Copyright infringement is also in breach of their ToS, so they'd likely ban your account at the least anyway. They also have this fun little paragraph in their ToS:

(click to show/hide)

The Customer retains copyright and all other rights they already hold in content which is stored on, or
         distributed through Services provided by Whatbox. By storing or distributing content through Services,
         you give Whatbox a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide and royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to
         reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, and publicly perform, publicly display and distribute
         said content using Services.

      The Customer agrees that this license includes a right for Whatbox to make such content available to
         other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Whatbox has relationships for the provision
         of syndicated services, and to use such content in connection with the provision of those services.
      

      You understand that Whatbox, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our
         users, may:
      
          transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media
          make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical
             requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media
      

      You agree that this license shall permit Whatbox to take these actions.

      You confirm and warrant to Whatbox that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant
         the above license.

On top of that, they are subject to Leaseweb's ToS as well. Leasweb is made up of three companies - one in the US, one in the UK, and one in the Netherlands (which is also where the servers are hosted). All of those countries have pretty strict anti-piracy regulations, so you're no less at risk than you would be if you were in Ireland.

OK, this time I really am stopping this discussion

[Tiffanys]

They have that ToS to cover their own ass. They don't store any of your personal information to divulge, not even your IP. The only information they could divulge is your Paypal account because that's literally the only information they have.

And well, setting up a seedbox can be done in all of a whopping 5 minutes (if that).
http://filesharefreak.com/2012/05/10/seedbox-from-scratch-setting-up-your-very-first-server/
http://filesharefreak.com/2012/05/10/seedbox-from-scratch-new-server-to-seeding-in-less-than-5-minutes/

[sawakosadako]

http://filesharefreak.com/2012/05/10/seedbox-from-scratch-setting-up-your-very-first-server/
http://filesharefreak.com/2012/05/10/seedbox-from-scratch-new-server-to-seeding-in-less-than-5-minutes/

Tiff thanks, for the link. I'm always interested what a seedbox is all about. But since I have no use for it I've never really dig into it. Anyway your link really give me some idea what a seedbox is all about.