Since when were dubs acceptable?

[Fool010]

Just a minor nitpick but .... the original japanese audio is already a dub 

I guess dubs became acceptable as soon as anime ceased to be silent. Dubs are perfectly acceptable for those unwilling to cope with subtitles and walls of text at the end of every episode to explain every japanese linguistic, social or cultural specificities they may have missed.
I suppose there are people who just want to watch the story, without diving into japanese culture and that's perfectifly fine.

Those who want the real thing have no reason to submit themselves to dubs, do they ? So what's the point in bitching about something you can easily avoid ?

[kojito00]

I think they already established that an audio that is not of the original language the picture is produced is considered a dub, or at least that's how it is accepted among anime fans despite the undeniable fact that any superimposed audio dialogue to any picture is, without a doubt, a dub. Just as we arbitrarily call colors certain names, etc.

[AceHigh]

Some countries with long running dub culture are good at it, like Germany and France, others are horrible at it. In case of English, the phenomenon seems to be that the dub is either crappy or expensive as hell.

Easy to say I have not yet seen a single good dub in English language.

On other hand Japanese females all sound like chipmunks which is annoying as fuck... so damned if I dub, damned if I sub.

[Lord of Fire]

Just a minor nitpick but .... the original japanese audio is already a dub 

It's not a nitpick, it's a straw man. You're trying to claim that if we hate dubs, we should hate the original, Japanese dub as well. But that's not the point being made here, and you know it.

The argument is being made that a foreign dub can never truly portray the original feelings and emotions the Japanese voice actors put into their characters, and that when making a dub, a lot of sacrifices need to be made to make everything sound convincing without truly explaining anything. This in contrary to subs and translation notes, where you can hear the original audio, read the translation and find out if anything got left out, or what was meant by certain things.

I know some anime dubs can be good, but personal experience with dubs vs subs in Disney movies made me appreciate the medium in its original language more than in my own. A lot of cartoons I used to watch subbed  got dubbed in my own language and it nearly ruined some of my favorite shows. As much as the VA tried their best, they never sounded right to me, probably because I was too used to the original voices by then.

[Temuthril]

Nothing wrong with dubs as long as you can choose whichever you use.

Unlike most video games.

[Fool010]

[It's not a nitpick, it's a straw man. You're trying to claim that if we hate dubs, we should hate the original, Japanese dub as well.

Relax, your joke detector seems to be in need of some tuning.

Besides, I'm very well aware what the matter is here, the second part of my post -which you left out- adresses it.

I do agree with one thing you said though. Once you've started to watch stuff in original audio, getting back to dubs is almost impossible as they just sound ... 'wrong' (it's not the best analogy, but it's the only one I could find). I used to watch american or english series and movies dubbed, but once I got my english sufficiently back in shape to watch them without needing subtitles I just couldn't get back to dubs. Even the best done dub doesn't give back the accents, inflections, or even specific timbres actors may use.

I see no need to put dubs and subs in opposition as they don't target the same audience.

[megido-rev.M]

I used to watch american or english series and movies dubbed, but once I got my english sufficiently back in shape to watch them without needing subtitles I just couldn't get back to dubs.

You kinda lost me there.

[Fool010]

I used to watch american or english series and movies dubbed, but once I got my english sufficiently back in shape to watch them without needing subtitles I just couldn't get back to dubs.

You kinda lost me there.

Froggie here, english isn't my native language. I haven't spoken english in ages, having a conversation would probably be a torture for everyone involved. After a couple of years with little to no practise you're no longer able to watch a movie in foreign language without subs. Took me a couple of months until it finally felt they were no longer speaking too fast for me to understand.

All clear now ?

[SpeedKills]

Relax, your joke detector seems to be in need of some tuning.

Story of my life. :3

When I think of dubbing, I always think of putting in blank cassette tapes, and playing the original in double speed to pirate music back in the day, lol.

Full Metal Panic is a good anime to start with, the dub is very competent and doesn't take away from anything, some jokes are funnier to me as they were rewritten to better reflect english humour. But the main thing is it's actually good.

This matters much more to me than being counted as part of a group of people who actually think moe is acceptable in any way or form

But isn't that the problem right there?  The operative word is, "rewritten".

Maybe I just enjoy learning about the Japanese language too much or something.

I'll be glad when moe is finally dead.

[Cassi3]

If you prefer English dubs in your shows, have at it. You prefer Japanese? がんばって!

But let's get one thing straight here, there is something lost when a show is translated to English. An anime has to be localized and translated for the culture in which the product is being sold. Through this process of localization, you're losing something from the original, you are changing the art. Obviously this can't be helped, and how much it actually harms a show is subjective, but something is indeed lost, something is taken away from show. How much varies per show, plot, even episode, but it is clearly is no longer the work of the creator once a show has its entire audio track replaced.

Ask yourself something, do foreign films up for nomination at Cannes or Sundance get dubbed in English for the judges so they don't have to read subtitles? Why should anime be treated differently? Because it's a "cartoon for kids"? I may sound pretentious, and I very well might be, but let's not kid ourselves here. Anime is a form of art and artwork is largely subjective. Everyone has their own tastes. But one of the few things about art that can be objectively looked at, is altering the original. And that's what dubs do, they alter the original artwork.

[sams88]

I'll be glad when moe is finally dead.

Moe hater ? Dude, I not longer like YOU.

[QuickSilvyr]

ダブはおかしいです

I'll accept various dubbed anime because for some it is not really possible to see the original anymore. Some are an afront to the whole anime. For instance Speed Racer. Another wicked artrocity ...the german dub of Captain Future is a slash and chop orgy of the series. Not only loss but even the attitudes of the characters are kinda changed.

My two cents:

There are various anime today that are well done and are quite well watchable in dub but I have a problem to imagine listening to Popotan or Bottle Faries in english. (Correct me if I am wrong.. Those two anime are still virgin from being confronted with Anglicism?) I don't think it would work in the language.  It was very strange to watch an epsiode of Madoka Magica in german dub. I'll keep it halfways original and stick to subbed.

Dub to those who dub.
 

[AceHigh]

I'll be glad when moe is finally dead.

Moe hater ? Dude, I not longer like YOU.

Define "moe" first, then judge

[Zalis116]

There are various anime today that are well done and are quite well watchable in dub but I have a problem to imagine listening to Popotan or Bottle Faries in english. (Correct me if I am wrong.. Those two anime are still virgin from being confronted with Anglicism?)

http://bakabt.me/144144-popotan-exiled-destiny.html
http://bakabt.me/129889-binzume-yousei-bottle-fairy-exiled-destiny.html

As a look at BakaBT's torrents or ANN/MAL would've told you, English dubs for those two shows have been available for a long time. They maybe don't have a place in the pantheon of great English dubs, but I thought they were at least listenable/okay. They were released back in ~2005 when pretty much everything released in North America was dubbed, but I imagine they might not get dubbed if they were released today.

[sams88]

I'll be glad when moe is finally dead.

Moe hater ? Dude, I not longer like YOU.

Define "moe" first, then judge

Cute lolis doing cute things.

[Chef]

The sad thing is, if you bothered to learn the language of the country you are obsessed with you'd probably learn that a lot of Japanese voice acting isn't that good either LOL. It's easy to recognize that a lot of English dubs are using cheap voice actors just to get a copy out to the west with 'english audio' written on the DVD, but to be honest unless it is a really top notch anime the voice acting is usually pretty melodramatic / cliche. It is the same kind of overacting that can make you cringe watching normal American TV.

If it helps your enjoyment of a mediocre series to be blissfully ignorant of the quality of voice acting, that is fair enough. But I think you are overstating the quality of Japanese voice actors. They definitely have some top notch people, but if you've been obsessed with anime for a decade and say things like this, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're watching some trash as well. Great acting in general is a rare commodity in all countries.

[AceHigh]

Cute lolis doing cute things.

The best definition I have ever seen: "Moe, it's when your heart gets a boner"

[sams88]

Cute lolis doing cute things.

The best definition I have ever seen: "Moe, it's when your heart gets a boner"

lol ... match my experience 

[QuickSilvyr]

There are various anime today that are well done and are quite well watchable in dub but I have a problem to imagine listening to Popotan or Bottle Faries in english. (Correct me if I am wrong.. Those two anime are still virgin from being confronted with Anglicism?)

http://bakabt.me/144144-popotan-exiled-destiny.html
http://bakabt.me/129889-binzume-yousei-bottle-fairy-exiled-destiny.html

As a look at BakaBT's torrents or ANN/MAL would've told you, English dubs for those two shows have been available for a long time. They maybe don't have a place in the pantheon of great English dubs, but I thought they were at least listenable/okay. They were released back in ~2005 when pretty much everything released in North America was dubbed, but I imagine they might not get dubbed if they were released today.

Thank you for the update. I didn't really look into it. Rather what came to mind as an example. 

Maybe they are better seiyuus around for the task but what bothers me is the tone and use of voice in the anime more than the language. I can take the pseudo girl or boy voice seiyuu and corellate the voice to the character.  The dubs though use often a voice tonality that makes me wince. I think that is what bothers me more than the language.

[sams88]

There are various anime today that are well done and are quite well watchable in dub but I have a problem to imagine listening to Popotan or Bottle Faries in english. (Correct me if I am wrong.. Those two anime are still virgin from being confronted with Anglicism?)

http://bakabt.me/144144-popotan-exiled-destiny.html
http://bakabt.me/129889-binzume-yousei-bottle-fairy-exiled-destiny.html

As a look at BakaBT's torrents or ANN/MAL would've told you, English dubs for those two shows have been available for a long time. They maybe don't have a place in the pantheon of great English dubs, but I thought they were at least listenable/okay. They were released back in ~2005 when pretty much everything released in North America was dubbed, but I imagine they might not get dubbed if they were released today.

Thank you for the update. I didn't really look into it. Rather what came to mind as an example. 

Maybe they are better seiyuus around for the task but what bothers me is the tone and use of voice in the anime more than the language. I can take the pseudo girl or boy voice seiyuu and corellate the voice to the character.  The dubs though use often a voice tonality that makes me wince. I think that is what bothers me more than the language.

I am not a native English speaker, so watching stuff dubbed in English makes as much difference as the original Japanese sound, but what I really like about subs is that the voice acting matches the personality of the characters better in the original, where in English dub you have the problem of not having the talent that correspond at hand for some reason.

The thing that makes Anime characters in most of the cases, barred extra-detailed art style like Zetman or Jojo Adventures, is mostly the hair color, hair design, eye color, and the voice acting. I appreciate the things as a Japanese form of art, so I always prefer the most versions that the most Japanese possible with subs.

But whatever floats your boat.