Is Fanservice hate nonsense?

[sams88]

In reading reviews, listening to Podcasts, and watching Youtube videos there seems to be a big problems in Anime called : Fanservice.

If you are not too much into anime you would think that when you are watching your Anime out of the blue a pair of boobs fly into the screen and distract you from the very intellectual plot at hand. This crime is diluting anime and rendering it dumb.

I think this hate of fanservice is dumb and Bullshit, because just watching the anime PV or reading its premise would give you an idea of what is is about. If after acquiring this information you complain about the fanservice that is part of the Anime itself then you are just being silly.

Secondly most of the animes histories are not that serious to the point of people complaining about "distractions", even Animes with "deep stories" are mostly nonsensical BS trying to screw you mind, the prime example being NEO Evangelion : standard Mecha story, but lets make it creepy, full of religious symbolism and having the dumbest hero in History and pretend it is brilliant.

In fact I think that fan service hate is actually an "Armchair Elitism", coming from a demographic that has probably the most porn in the planet, and TB worth of tentacle videos. The rejection of Fanservice is a way to look more serious, which is nonsensical because the Anime without sexual fanservice still have the same level of plots than fanservice heavy animes, I dare anyone to give me a non-fanservice Anime that has a particularly brilliant plot.

I am not saying that Anime is dumb by default, but that Anime stories are not so high minded to the point of complaining Fanservice content that is part of the Anime concept itself. Furthermore the focus on Boobies and pantyshots misses the problem of non-sexual fanservice of fight such has extending the show content to the point of destructing the plot, but pleasing the fans with eye candy. Naruto is an example of it, with such a long story that makes no longer any sense, but continues because it is cool. It is fine for me, but the hypocrisy is Jarring.

One particular example that makes me smile is people complaining in Ramdomc.net about the angle of shots in Operation Vividred, because apparently the camera focusing on the girls asses in shorts is distracting people from the "serious plot" of Saylor Moon Magic Girls fighting monsters from Evangelion ...

The camera angles is part of the show design itself, because it is clear that the artists of this show like to draw girls asses in short. The whole anime started with a shot of the sun rising through the gap of a girl legs ... yet it is pervy, but as it is said in "Even a Monkey can draw Manga" : "I know a dude who make a living drawing women breast" ... in Operation Vividred it is a dude that draw women backside. In a tangent.



So do you agree me ? Is Fanservice Hate Bullshit or I am wrong ?

[AceHigh]

I am lazy so I will ctrl+v my earlier post on this subject:

So essentially you dislike these tropes?
...wait didn't Google indirectly pull the nsfw stuff from TVTropes?

Something like that. If someone asks me what is a well done fan service, the first thing that pops in my mind is the infamous toothbrush scene from Nisemonogatari. The best part is that scene doesn't even have half naked characters or any exposed underwear. No, they managed to take an everyday activity and turn it into something erotic, yet relating perfectly to the core of the series. That scene burned into my mind and I'll be damned if I ever forget about it.

Now a bad example: HOTD. I was really looking forward to the exploration of survival theme in this series. So every time the camera went into that specific angle to get a panty shot for no fucking reason whatsoever, it pissed me off. Actually ruined the overall experience for me, talk about forcing something in in such a clumsy way.


Basically sex is a theme to explore and I am not against that, but slapping it like some cheap fridge magnet on every possible genre out there really ruins a lot. Even the 15 year old "raging hormones" demographic should be having a bit higher standards in my opinion.

BTW, from this thread:
http://forums.bakabt.me/index.php?topic=37563.0

[Tiffanys]

Yeah, it's bullshit. Bunch of damn prudes to be honest.

All the dub hate is nonsense too. Never gonna convince some of these people of that though.

[dbml]

If fanservice fits the series, then I have no problem with it. Let's say... Strike Witches. Or Mahoromatic. It's fine there, because it's meant to be there. When I get pissed about fanservice though, is when it shows up where it doesn't belong. Code Geass is a prime example of that (with Kallen).

Also, it seems to be that the more fanservice there is, the dumber the plot will be. So I tend to avoid most fanservice series as I like watching series that have a worthwhile story. I don't hate fanservice at all, but I'd rather see it where it belongs.

[Yui-senpai]

I do admit that sometimes, fanservice can detract from the storyline and can kind of make me question why it's there...

But overall, it's not that big of a deal. I'd rather it be there than not there anyway.

[sams88]

I am lazy so I will ctrl+v my earlier post on this subject:

So essentially you dislike these tropes?
...wait didn't Google indirectly pull the nsfw stuff from TVTropes?

Something like that. If someone asks me what is a well done fan service, the first thing that pops in my mind is the infamous toothbrush scene from Nisemonogatari. The best part is that scene doesn't even have half naked characters or any exposed underwear. No, they managed to take an everyday activity and turn it into something erotic, yet relating perfectly to the core of the series. That scene burned into my mind and I'll be damned if I ever forget about it.

Now a bad example: HOTD. I was really looking forward to the exploration of survival theme in this series. So every time the camera went into that specific angle to get a panty shot for no fucking reason whatsoever, it pissed me off. Actually ruined the overall experience for me, talk about forcing something in in such a clumsy way.


Basically sex is a theme to explore and I am not against that, but slapping it like some cheap fridge magnet on every possible genre out there really ruins a lot. Even the 15 year old "raging hormones" demographic should be having a bit higher standards in my opinion.

BTW, from this thread:
http://forums.bakabt.me/index.php?topic=37563.0

I don't know why HoTD is a good example of poor fanservice, because most of the serious takes on the Zombie genre in other formats are not that serious to begin with and mostly devolve in Gore fest. What exactly could HoTD bring something serious to the table, when The Walking Dead, Romero movies, 27 Days Later, and other Zombie movies have not brought anything much serious to the table.

Yes they tried to sell hot women, but was there anything else to sell ?

If fanservice fits the series, then I have no problem with it. Let's say... Strike Witches. Or Mahoromatic. It's fine there, because it's meant to be there. When I get pissed about fanservice though, is when it shows up where it doesn't belong. Code Geass is a prime example of that (with Kallen).

Also, it seems to be that the more fanservice there is, the dumber the plot will be. So I tend to avoid most fanservice series as I like watching series that have a worthwhile story. I don't hate fanservice at all, but I'd rather see it where it belongs.

I agree that fanservice popping up in an Anime that presents itself as serious is bad, not because fanservice is bad but because it is false advertisement.

But I disagree that it makes the plot dumber, because a lot of serious anime having dumb plots and they have their own kind of fanservice with eye candy, like Naruto and Bleach.

[buchno]

The rejection of Fanservice is a way to look more serious, which is nonsensical because the Anime without sexual fanservice still have the same level of plots than fanservice heavy animes, I dare anyone to give me a non-fanservice Anime that has a particularly brilliant plot.

Would you consider any Ghibli* anime to be just as good if there was forced fan service in it?

*May substitute with any other great studio which doesn't make use of fan service.

[AceHigh]

Yes they tried to sell hot women, but was there anything else to sell ?

Zombies, the selling point which is sold like hot cupcakes nowadays.

The execution was bad. It's not about fanservice, I am of that opinion about all elements in entertainment: action, horror, sex, thrill, atmosphere... you name it. All of those elements can be executed poorly or well. For instance the weapon autencity and the handling in HOTD was executed very well making that fat guy my favourite character in that anime, despite numerous pantyshots of pretty much every female (no homo).

As a consumer I believe we have the right to demand quality of the material, don't you think? I agree that hating fanservice entirely is silly, I just want the "service" to hold standards. However likewise I believe that people that defend fanservice even when it is presented in presented in the most retarded of ways is just as stupid.

[Tatsujin]

Bunch of bullshit. If you don't like fanservice, then don't watch the series. If you like it, watch it.

I don't mind fanservice at all ever since I've seen it in Girls Bravo.

[sams88]

The rejection of Fanservice is a way to look more serious, which is nonsensical because the Anime without sexual fanservice still have the same level of plots than fanservice heavy animes, I dare anyone to give me a non-fanservice Anime that has a particularly brilliant plot.

Would you consider any Ghibli* anime to be just as good if there was forced fan service in it?

*May substitute with any other great studio which doesn't make use of fan service.

It is kind of hard to have fanservice when you have a film featuring about a young girl meeting a magic cat. It is like asking coffee without water.

Keep in mind I didn't say that Anime is dumb in general, but fanservice or not most anime plots are average.

a pantyshot might take some inscreen time and be annoying but it doesn't have much plot effect, while the biggest problem of Anime is characters being dumb for the sake of the plot.

[buchno]

It is kind of hard to have fanservice when you have a film featuring about a young girl meeting a magic cat. It is like asking coffee without water.

I don't know about you, but I would find it distracting if they featured frequent pantyshots of the young girl.

[sams88]

Yes they tried to sell hot women, but was there anything else to sell ?

Zombies, the selling point which is sold like hot cupcakes nowadays.

The execution was bad. It's not about fanservice, I am of that opinion about all elements in entertainment: action, horror, sex, thrill, atmosphere... you name it. All of those elements can be executed poorly or well. For instance the weapon autencity and the handling in HOTD was executed very well making that fat guy my favourite character in that anime, despite numerous pantyshots of pretty much every female (no homo).

As a consumer I believe we have the right to demand quality of the material, don't you think? I agree that hating fanservice entirely is silly, I just want the "service" to hold standards. However likewise I believe that people that defend fanservice even when it is presented in presented in the most retarded of ways is just as stupid.

I get your point about them selling Zombies, but you should keep in mind that even the best Zombie franchise Walking Dead have limitations in the themes they are approaching. You have to recognize the limitations of the genre, if you want to complain about people not being faithful to it.

As for me defending fanservice and being dumb ... dude, when you what the PV of an Anime or read their Animelist entry you can know if it is going to be full of pantyshots, then don't watch it simple.

[HeartVivian]

Some anime are clever about it, though it's quite obvious when you watch anime consistently, like you said, there is a lot of creative uses of the camera angles.

(click to show/hide)

I was going to put HotD on here as a discussion, however I was beaten to it. I agree with you actually sam, there isn't much depth in the story, characters, or anything note worthy that HotD did better than any of the others in the zombie genre. It simply took the overused concept of a zombie apocalypse, placed it in an anime setting, added a large amount of fanservice, obviously made it a harem, and called it a show. I wouldn't go straight to say that it is completely without some merit, though the fanservice in this case was simply too much of a distraction to enjoy any plot that the anime did have.

My biggest complaint with fanservice has to do with its overuse, an overuse to such a point that the plot isn't even a noticeable aspect of the anime anymore, it's just simply an ecchi all-round. I am not going to lie, I honestly would prefer watching anime without seeing the stereotypical boob or booty flash since I am a heterosexual female and it's annoying to me personally, though I wouldn't go as far as to condemn all anime for having fanservice. There are anime with good plots and fanservice, though they get a bad reputation because of big name fanservice anime like HotD or Highschool DxD.

An non-fanservice anime with a particularly brilliant plot? I guess it would be rather hard to say one simply because anime creators are trying to aim for a large demographic including the large majority of males who watch anime compared to the females.

Though when you say fanservice, my prototype of fanservice automatically jumps to the idea of boobs and butt, yet no one really thinks of abs (on guys) as fanservice despite the fact that it definitely is. The most obvious example that I can think of at the top of my head right now is this. Yes, it is a PV and I'm quite sure the actual anime (if there is one) will not have this much fanservice straight-out.

I saw that episode of Vividred Operation and I didn't get offended at any point by the butt flash, though it did seem out of place for the type of anime that I thought it was.

tl;dr Fanservice is fine if it's done right. Too much is a big turnoff and distracts. There is a time and place for it. Fanservice is hard to avoid simply because of the large male demographic that watches anime. I don't hate it and I understand why it's there. The fanservice hate is not completely nonsense since people do have some legitimate reasons for hating fanservice anime. But all-round it's not completely, nor should it be, a instant deal-breaker for watching the anime.

[sams88]

People really jump to boobs and butt when they think fanservice, yet nobody thinks about eye candy on screen and series whose Histories are so eternal it recycles its own plots just to keep the show running. Vilains don't die, fight takes forever, the plot has no resolution, because we gotta keep the fans happy !

But the abs thing I didn't know it was a thing, I guess it is a proof that someone is trying to cater to the female demographic ... or maybe the non-female male demographic with that taste, and that is fine as long as it is the branding around it.

You are also right about fanservice being overused or missuses, which is more a problem of lack of talent than excessive sexual, you gotta be really lame to make sexiness boring. Sometimes the problem is that there is no plot but just excuses to get airtime and spam it with pantyshots. There I completely agree that it is dumb because it shows a total lack of effort in writing a compelling story, plus we already got Echi and Hentai for that.

As for HoTD I agree that the Zombie themes are pretty much played out, I am a fan of Starship Troopers and would love to see more movies of it, but I understand the limitations of the universe. So can only go so far with a story about marines shooting spacebugs.

Some anime are clever about it, though it's quite obvious when you watch anime consistently, like you said, there is a lot of creative uses of the camera angles.

(click to show/hide)

I was going to put HotD on here as a discussion, however I was beaten to it. I agree with you actually sam, there isn't much depth in the story, characters, or anything note worthy that HotD did better than any of the others in the zombie genre. It simply took the overused concept of a zombie apocalypse, placed it in an anime setting, added a large amount of fanservice, obviously made it a harem, and called it a show. I wouldn't go straight to say that it is completely without some merit, though the fanservice in this case was simply too much of a distraction to enjoy any plot that the anime did have.

My biggest complaint with fanservice has to do with its overuse, an overuse to such a point that the plot isn't even a noticeable aspect of the anime anymore, it's just simply an ecchi all-round. I am not going to lie, I honestly would prefer watching anime without seeing the stereotypical boob or booty flash since I am a heterosexual female and it's annoying to me personally, though I wouldn't go as far as to condemn all anime for having fanservice. There are anime with good plots and fanservice, though they get a bad reputation because of big name fanservice anime like HotD or Highschool DxD.

An non-fanservice anime with a particularly brilliant plot? I guess it would be rather hard to say one simply because anime creators are trying to aim for a large demographic including the large majority of males who watch anime compared to the females.

Though when you say fanservice, my prototype of fanservice automatically jumps to the idea of boobs and butt, yet no one really thinks of abs (on guys) as fanservice despite the fact that it definitely is. The most obvious example that I can think of at the top of my head right now is this. Yes, it is a PV and I'm quite sure the actual anime (if there is one) will not have this much fanservice straight-out.

I saw that episode of Vividred Operation and I didn't get offended at any point by the butt flash, though it did seem out of place for the type of anime that I thought it was.

tl;dr Fanservice is fine if it's done right. Too much is a big turnoff and distracts. There is a time and place for it. Fanservice is hard to avoid simply because of the large male demographic that watches anime. I don't hate it and I understand why it's there. The fanservice hate is not completely nonsense since people do have some legitimate reasons for hating fanservice anime. But all-round it's not completely, nor should it be, a instant deal-breaker for watching the anime.

[AceHigh]

As for me defending fanservice and being dumb ... dude, when you what the PV of an Anime or read their Animelist entry you can know if it is going to be full of pantyshots, then don't watch it simple.

Learn to read, I said defending all fanservice just like condemning it all is stupid. Those both are two extremes, it's not black and white, some fanservice is good and some is bad. Yes, it is stupid to jump one bandwagon or another.

[CappinHoff]

Using HoTD is a good example. It's a very good zombie story/anime. Pretty serious on the zombie story part, even more so than most live action zombie movies(TWD is a pretty serious show about zombies so it will be excluded).

The 1st issue is placement of the fan service. Now I'm a fan of FS and have no issues with the amount, but I can see why people do.

(click to show/hide)

Now does that scene really need to be placed at all in the series? No(remember now I love FS), but it was. Most times the placement of FS could be better in a way not to disrupt the story flow.

The 2nd issue is story flow. FS can wreck story flow like a semi hitting a yugo. HoTD is again a good example of this. The story gets flowing than absurd amounts of FS derail the flow. Usually once a story is derailed you can't get it back.

The 3rd and final issue is amount. Sometimes there is just too much FS for it's own good. When every scene contains some sort of FS it kinda kills the reason for watching. Like I've stated before I enjoy FS just as much as anyone, but sometimes I can care less to see it every episode, every scene.

[sams88]

As for me defending fanservice and being dumb ... dude, when you what the PV of an Anime or read their Animelist entry you can know if it is going to be full of pantyshots, then don't watch it simple.

Learn to read, I said defending all fanservice just like condemning it all is stupid. Those both are two extremes, it's not black and white, some fanservice is good and some is bad. Yes, it is stupid to jump one bandwagon or another.

oh now I get it, you are that kind of forum asshole. I have better thing to do than dealing with contrarian egomaniacs, have a nice day.

Using HoTD is a good example. It's a very good zombie story/anime. Pretty serious on the zombie story part, even more so than most live action zombie movies(TWD is a pretty serious show about zombies so it will be excluded).

The 1st issue is placement of the fan service. Now I'm a fan of FS and have no issues with the amount, but I can see why people do.

(click to show/hide)

Now does that scene really need to be placed at all in the series? No(remember now I love FS), but it was. Most times the placement of FS could be better in a way not to disrupt the story flow.

The 2nd issue is story flow. FS can wreck story flow like a semi hitting a yugo. HoTD is again a good example of this. The story gets flowing than absurd amounts of FS derail the flow. Usually once a story is derailed you can't get it back.

The 3rd and final issue is amount. Sometimes there is just too much FS for it's own good. When every scene contains some sort of FS it kinda kills the reason for watching. Like I've stated before I enjoy FS just as much as anyone, but sometimes I can care less to see it every episode, every scene.

You could take the FS out of HoTD and it would still be a solid story, but not a better story because it doesn't derail that much the plot, maybe it derails the atmosphere of the show. Some choices where truly bizarre in the show, for example featuring FS in horror scenes when school girls are getting attacked by zombies, I guess it is more a matter of tone than of plot being derailed.

Don't double post. -Sash

[dbml]

To be fair to HoTD, the anime really piles on the fanservice, unlike its manga counterpart. Like Saiko's bullet-boob dance? Yeah, that's not in the manga. I also feel that HoTD's fanservice fits the series just fine. Granted, I do think it was completely overdone, but it didn't feel out of place. It's a horror comedy. If it was a straight horror series, with a complete lack of comedy, then it would feel out of place to me.

Now if a series like Death Note had it, then there would be issues. Like in the middle of a Light/L staredown, Misa comes stumbling through the door in a towel, which slips. That's awful fanservice.

[AceHigh]

As for me defending fanservice and being dumb ... dude, when you what the PV of an Anime or read their Animelist entry you can know if it is going to be full of pantyshots, then don't watch it simple.

Learn to read, I said defending all fanservice just like condemning it all is stupid. Those both are two extremes, it's not black and white, some fanservice is good and some is bad. Yes, it is stupid to jump one bandwagon or another.

oh now I get it, you are that kind of forum asshole. I have better thing to do than dealing with contrarian egomaniacs, have a nice day.

Well excuse me that I get irritated at people who are twisting my words.

[buchno]

You could take the FS out of HoTD and it would still be a solid story, but not a better story because it doesn't derail that much the plot, maybe it derails the atmosphere of the show. Some choices where truly bizarre in the show, for example featuring FS in horror scenes when school girls are getting attacked by zombies, I guess it is more a matter of tone than of plot being derailed.

It might not affect the story in itself, but it does have a negative influence on how it gets across to the viewer, by being a distracting, and sometimes irritating, irrelevant element. It also indicates that the creators didn't think the work was good enough to stand on its own without containing pornography in disguise.

Note that I am talking about when it is irrelevant to the plot, or executed in a lackluster manner. The nude scene in Paprika, for example, isn't distracting, since it wasn't added to please horny boys in their early puberty.

If people want to watch porn, they can watch porn.