Promising Technologies in Development | whats coming into the market

[OniichanSuki]

It's just over-enthusiasm with words commonly used in ads and infomercials. Amazing and incredible, huh? Take the bias out by using "cool" or "interesting" or "high quality" instead.

On the 3D printer note, check out the Mod-T on Indiegogo. Funding just closed yesterday. Just couldn't resist a $250 3D printer.

haha.. xD well, a printer with the double of accuracy of any other 3d printer ever released before, is really something unique, now that the competition is increasing we can expect the other 3d printers producers to release something even better than this (I really expect something new from the Form 1 producers, their printer was always the most accurate), I read about that indiegogo campaign last week but that printer is capped to 200 microns (0.2mm), the one I linked before has 20x precision (0,01mm or 10 microns), though it wasn't intended for home use, more like for professionals or technology researchers, Mod-T is a more realistic approach for home use.

10 microns accuracy looks almost like this:
https://imgur.com/IUiBlge

[kureshii]

Has anything emerged which could really use that 0.01mm accuracy, where 0.02mm won’t be enough, though?

[kitamesume]

Has anything emerged which could really use that 0.01mm accuracy, where 0.02mm won’t be enough, though?

possibly structurally rigid projects, since the gaps between injections is smaller so its probably more dense too.

[kureshii]

Has anything emerged which could really use that 0.01mm accuracy, where 0.02mm won’t be enough, though?

possibly structurally rigid projects, since the gaps between injections is smaller so its probably more dense too.

Umm, XFAB uses stereolithography, not injection layering.

[kitamesume]

ohh thats a different story then, most of the cheap ones are injection types though which suffers in structural integrity, or simply fragile.

but if its a high-precision stereolithography printing then maybe micro-gear prototyping?

[kureshii]

ohh thats a different story then, most of the cheap ones are injection types though which suffers in structural integrity, or simply fragile.

but if its a high-precision stereolithography printing then maybe micro-gear prototyping?

Micro-gears... with support structures? How small are those support structures gonna be, lol...

[kitamesume]

that i dunno XD
although seems like the characteristics of the micro-gears become highly robust if you scale it down to micro-size.
though materials used might be a possible cause of it too.

http://www.micromanufacturing.com/content/cutting-small-teeth

IC fabbing process. The fabrication of microelectromechani cal systems (MEMS) has led to some of the smallest working gears ever made—down to about 50?m in diameter. The process, similar to integrated-circuit manufacturing, can produce both individual parts as well as complete gear assemblies.

Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, is the leader in fabricating tiny gears. Its Web site and publications provide excellent information on the fabrication process and its limitations.

The process starts with a flat silicon substrate. A silicon-nitride layer is plated on top of it, then an oxide layer is grown atop the silicon-nitride layer. A pattern is etched on the oxide layer by applying a photomask, ultraviolet light and etching chemicals. The etching leaves shallow channels and patterns in the oxide that are then filled by a polysilicon layer. Lastly, the oxide layer is etched away from beneath the polysilicon layer, leaving a 3-D part resting on the silicon-nitride layer.

A facility for making MEMS components like microgears costs millions of dollars and requires highly sophisticated processes. Only a few operations in the U.S. produce such parts, but they can be fabricated in massive quantities at low costs.

MEMS gears also can be operated at high speeds and are extremely robust. Gear sets have run at speeds of 250,000 rpm. And, MEMS gears can withstand billions of cycles without breaking. Replacement is usually a result of wear, not fracturing.

[OniichanSuki]

Has anything emerged which could really use that 0.01mm accuracy, where 0.02mm won’t be enough, though?

it's not about the usage of the printed objects but it's more about the aesthetic value, for example this:
https://imgur.com/a/Mpysb

The first example is not very appealing, besides the appeal, sometimes complicated/round shapes might cause this problem:
https://imgur.com/Uql0FuC

probably that cup will leak any liquid you put in it.

[kitamesume]

is that from the same printing method? because they seem to be injection layering though.

[Tiffanys]

Has anything emerged which could really use that 0.01mm accuracy, where 0.02mm won’t be enough, though?

it's not about the usage of the printed objects but it's more about the aesthetic value, for example this:
https://imgur.com/a/Mpysb

The first example is not very appealing, besides the appeal, sometimes complicated/round shapes might cause this problem:
https://imgur.com/Uql0FuC

probably that cup will leak any liquid you put in it.

I've never liked how those plastic 3d printed objects come out, they just look like total crap like they need sanded or something, so one that could do smooth prints would definitely be ideal.

[OniichanSuki]

is that from the same printing method? because they seem to be injection layering though.

I guess not, it's probably a different method, I just googled to search low details prints to make the example, most likely with 10 microns precision it's not that noticeable even for the most complicated forms, though probably is still not nearly enough for example in medical use, some containers need to be completely isolated and need to avoid any possible leak, they need to resist the changes of temperature without deforming and this might be a problem since 3d printers act on layers, this might happen:
https://imgur.com/lbV0CiU

I'm not sure the net is a good example, the anti-stress toy might be a better example:
https://imgur.com/s30fJia

These toys are built on an entierly different method and materials, while for a 3d prited object, since it's based on layers, maybe its structure won't last long after being squeezed a couple of times, or after coming out of a freezer a dozen of times. With more density, this problem almost goes away completely.

EDIT: I just found a video, this is what I mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XAoIgZHGlw

THAT is an ad indeed lol but just listen to what she's talking about, that thing won't crack even when frozen because it's made of a high density polymer, 3d printers need to find a way to generate the same quality, more density is probably a good start.

Has anything emerged which could really use that 0.01mm accuracy, where 0.02mm won’t be enough, though?

it's not about the usage of the printed objects but it's more about the aesthetic value, for example this:
https://imgur.com/a/Mpysb

The first example is not very appealing, besides the appeal, sometimes complicated/round shapes might cause this problem:
https://imgur.com/Uql0FuC

probably that cup will leak any liquid you put in it.

I've never liked how those plastic 3d printed objects come out, they just look like total crap like they need sanded or something, so one that could do smooth prints would definitely be ideal.

Yep there're many smoothing methods I've seen on YT like corrosive vapor, liquids and similar stuff, but if the precision is very high like in the Form 1/XFAB the resulting print is already smooth enough, almost like a final product.

[kitamesume]

is that from the same printing method? because they seem to be injection layering though.

I guess not, it's probably a different method, I just googled to search low details prints to make the example, most likely with 10 microns precision it's not that noticeable even for the most complicated forms, though probably is still not nearly enough for example in medical use, some containers need to be completely isolated and need to avoid any possible leak, they need to resist the changes of temperature without deforming and this might be a problem since 3d printers act on layers, this might happen:
https://imgur.com/lbV0CiU

they don't use cheap 3D printers for medical use, they use multi-million facilities comprising of ultra-high-precision fabs down to nanometer scales.
and you'd see chip manufacturers using far more precise fabrication process down to less than 32nm pitch.

10microns, to them, is like 300x less precise than what they already use, i'm not exaggerating.


in any case, the resin isn't strong enough to be used outside of prototyping, which limits it's practical use.
precise or not, when its a prototype imho those doesn't matter, much less when its resin based.

thats why its pretty hard to answer the question "what can 10microns do that 20microns cant?".

[OniichanSuki]

is that from the same printing method? because they seem to be injection layering though.

I guess not, it's probably a different method, I just googled to search low details prints to make the example, most likely with 10 microns precision it's not that noticeable even for the most complicated forms, though probably is still not nearly enough for example in medical use, some containers need to be completely isolated and need to avoid any possible leak, they need to resist the changes of temperature without deforming and this might be a problem since 3d printers act on layers, this might happen:
https://imgur.com/lbV0CiU

they don't use cheap 3D printers for medical use, they use multi-million facilities comprising of ultra-high-precision fabs down to nanometer scales.
and you'd see chip manufacturers using far more precise fabrication process down to less than 32nm pitch.

10microns, to them, is like 300x less precise than what they already use, i'm not exaggerating.

yes but those are industrial technologies, what Form1 and XFAB are selling is for small professionals and home use, some professionals like dentists still need that kind of industrial quality, so if XFAB wants to get their tech in professionals labs/studios, they need to meet some requirements similar to what the high level industry is offering.

Personally, I just want to print cute customized and detailed nendoroids and fill every corner of my room <3 lol I hope they hurry up and release a low cost high quality printer

in any case, the resin isn't strong enough to be used outside of prototyping, which limits it's practical use.
precise or not, when its a prototype imho those doesn't matter, much less when its resin based.

thats why its pretty hard to answer the question "what can 10microns do that 20microns cant?".

oh I see what you mean about that, yep that's also true, though I read XFAB will support many types of materials even elastic stuff, they're trying the industrial-quality approach probably but most likely the XFAB is just the launch pad, is more likely that they'll release a XFAB2 right after that.

[Tiffanys]

Personally I'd use it to either make wax sculptures for using the lost-wax casting method or plastic and just use an oil bonded foundry sand like petrobond or k-bond for traditional casting. There's all kinds of neat stuff I could make.

Check this out, it's pretty neat. It's a method of melting 2000°F for free using only solar power:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFw7U7V1Hok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrje73EyKag

This one's going 3800°F:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drE54ctrHBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5NyZCu2d_c

I'm not sure how that could be applied to practical use for casting. It could easily be used for forging but I'm not so sure about making a decent amount of molten metal. Even with a proper crucible I'm not sure the heat would affect a large enough area to actually keep the entire thing molten. I dunno, I'll have to try it out sometime and experiment if I can ever con someone I know around where I live into helping me load up some crappy old big screen TV someone doesn't want anymore on Craigslist.

[kitamesume]

I'm not sure how that could be applied to practical use for casting. It could easily be used for forging but I'm not so sure about making a decent amount of molten metal. Even with a proper crucible I'm not sure the heat would affect a large enough area to actually keep the entire thing molten. I dunno, I'll have to try it out sometime and experiment if I can ever con someone I know around where I live into helping me load up some crappy old big screen TV someone doesn't want anymore on Craigslist.

you could use a brick crucible, or concrete if the temperature is low enough, both are good heat insulators too.

if you want to go a bit DIY you could make a simple induction forge, imho all you need are these stuff.

555 driver
a power mosfet
high current rectifier (or a buncha diodes)
a large AC capacitor (old microwave oven from a junkshop?)
thick copper tubes
a cheap aquarium water pump

what you'll do is make a "coil" using the thick copper tubes, and do an LC circuit between it and the large AC capacitor.
attach the water pump on one end with the other either going into a radiator or just make-do without the pump all together and go straight from tap, this is for cooling the copper tubes.
clamp one end of the copper tube on the output positive side of the rectifier in series with the mosfet, while the other end is straight to the negative side of the rectifier.
use the 555 to drive the mosfet to high frequencies (depends on the LC resonant frequency), adjust PWM for power output.

or just follow this guide - http://www.instructables.com/id/30-kVA-Induction-Heater/?ALLSTEPS

[Tiffanys]

(click to show/hide)

I'm not sure how that could be applied to practical use for casting. It could easily be used for forging but I'm not so sure about making a decent amount of molten metal. Even with a proper crucible I'm not sure the heat would affect a large enough area to actually keep the entire thing molten. I dunno, I'll have to try it out sometime and experiment if I can ever con someone I know around where I live into helping me load up some crappy old big screen TV someone doesn't want anymore on Craigslist.

you could use a brick crucible, or concrete if the temperature is low enough, both are good heat insulators too.

if you want to go a bit DIY you could make a simple induction forge, imho all you need are these stuff.

555 driver
a power mosfet
high current rectifier (or a buncha diodes)
a large AC capacitor
thick copper tubes
a cheap aquarium water pump

what you'll do is make a "coil" using the thick copper tubes, and do an LC circuit between it and the large AC capacitor.
attach the water pump on one end with the other either going into a radiator or just make-do without the pump all together and go straight from tap, this is for cooling the copper tubes.
clamp one end of the copper tube on the output positive side of the rectifier in series with the mosfet, while the other end is straight to the negative side of the rectifier.
use the 555 to drive the mosfet to high frequencies (depends on the LC resonant frequency), adjust PWM for power output.

or just follow this guide - http://www.instructables.com/id/30-kVA-Induction-Heater/?ALLSTEPS

You couldn't use brick nor concrete as a crucible for high temperature stuff like brass/bronze/iron/steel. They generally use clay graphite or silicon carbide crucibles with clay graphite tending to be the better of those. Some cheap DIY people make their own cast iron ones, obviously for temperatures less than iron, but they tend to not be nearly as good as actually buying a proper one.

Fire bricks are often used as insulators for foundries, along with a proper refractory. The refractory is kinda similar to cement but it's resistant to heat. You could make your own but it's not as good as the bought stuff if you intend to do higher temperatures like bronze/iron.

I really doubt I could actually build something as complicated as an induction heater anyhow... I definitely don't have those kinds of technical skills. I'm not even sure I could manage building a waste oil furnace. It would be cost prohibitive anyways like most proper foundry setups are.

The entire point was using a totally free fresnel lens that only used solar power rather than having to build a foundry, which is why I thought it was cool.

[OniichanSuki]

You couldn't use brick nor concrete as a crucible for high temperature stuff like brass/bronze/iron/steel. They generally use clay graphite or silicon carbide crucibles with clay graphite tending to be the better of those. Some cheap DIY people make their own cast iron ones, obviously for temperatures less than iron, but they tend to not be nearly as good as actually buying a proper one.

Fire bricks are often used as insulators for foundries, along with a proper refractory. The refractory is kinda similar to cement but it's resistant to heat. You could make your own but it's not as good as the bought stuff if you intend to do higher temperatures like bronze/iron.

What about lead? it's just slightly better than iron but it's pretty cheap and easy to carve
Never mind, I should get rid of mine I guess.. xD

[Tiffanys]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

[OniichanSuki]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

once I used 2kg of fishing leads to make a base to work with a blowtorch to repair a broken window hinge, do you think I poisoned myself? should I get checked? 

[kitamesume]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

once I used 2kg of fishing leads to make a base to work with a blowtorch to repair a broken window hinge, do you think I poisoned myself? should I get checked? 

nope, because inhaling even 1% of that 2Kg lead would've killed you outright, or at least impaired you beyond hope.
well since you hadn't, and wouldn't be doing it again anytime soon, i doubt you'd get any worse as you are now.