Supporting the Anime Industry

[EmptyMemory]

Earlier today, I watched a rant by a youtuber known as gigguk. While the entirety of said rant isn't necessarily relevant to the discussion I have in mind, his rant did make me want to question how I support the anime industry. As it stands, I'm mostly happy with the model I use to watch anime: I download fansubbed anime to my computer for free via torrents from BBT, Nyaa, or directly from the fansubber. While I recognize that this is great for me in the short run, I also realize that the anime industry would not be able sustain itself if all of its consumers did the same. Do you think that we, the consumer, should take responsibility by paying for our anime in some form (be it time spent watching advertisements or money to paid services such as crunchyroll), or should the industry take responsibility for their failing business model?

Let's look at crunchyroll (keeping in mind I only spent like 5 minutes researching). Currently, they offer streaming subbed anime at 1080p for C$ 6.95/month. Do I value anime enough to spend $7/mo for it? Obviously, I do, and I'm sure the same can be said for almost everyone with an account on this forum. But the truth of the matter is, the same good is offered for less elsewhere. With that in mind, the only way I would pass $7/mo to crunchyroll is if I valued the continued sustainability of the industry by that full amount, ignoring the value obtained by also being able to use crunchyroll's service (if that made any sense). But since I know crunchyroll is just a middleman for the anime industry, I'd rather pass my $7/mo directly to the producing company instead, since the service crunchyroll is providing is essentially worth nothing (to me), since its competitors (fansubbers) offer the same thing for free.

I'm rambling, but my point is, there needs to be a better way for me to support the anime industry for me to begin forking up my money.
Your thoughts?

Edit: What's a better way for the anime industry to get its overseas fanbase to contribute in a way that adds value to those consumers as well?

[ConsiderPhlebas]

Buy a few Japanese DVD or BD that you love. Even if you don't understand any/all of it. That is the very best method of injecting money into new things being done.

Places like amazon.co.jp or cdjapan.co.jp sell and ship almost everywhere.

[Ozzaharwood]

I think if the anime industry doesn't care enough about us to try and get the anime into American markets with subtitles, then why should we care about supporting them? Without fansubs, most of us wouldn't be watching anime anyway, because we wouldn't understand it unless we understood Japanese. We'd only be able to watch officially translated subbed or dubbed stuff. And the majority of anime series are not subbed/dubbed officially. Plus, it is no different from watching it airing on TV in Japan anyway. They are making money off the airing of it, and you are just watching those aired episodes that are ripped and subbed and put on the internet.

If you truly feel you should support the industry, do as Phlebas said. Order the BDs off the internet. Buy the translated manga. Buy figures and merchandise.

[CappinHoff]

Earlier today, I watched a rant by a youtuber known as gigguk. While the entirety of said rant isn't necessarily relevant to the discussion I have in mind, his rant did make me want to question how I support the anime industry. As it stands, I'm mostly happy with the model I use to watch anime: I download fansubbed anime to my computer for free via torrents from BBT, Nyaa, or directly from the fansubber. While I recognize that this is great for me in the short run, I also realize that the anime industry would not be able sustain itself if all of its consumers did the same. Do you think that we, the consumer, should take responsibility by paying for our anime in some form (be it time spent watching advertisements or money to paid services such as crunchyroll), or should the industry take responsibility for their failing business model?

Let's look at crunchyroll (keeping in mind I only spent like 5 minutes researching). Currently, they offer streaming subbed anime at 1080p for C$ 6.95/month. Do I value anime enough to spend $7/mo for it? Obviously, I do, and I'm sure the same can be said for almost everyone with an account on this forum. But the truth of the matter is, the same good is offered for less elsewhere. With that in mind, the only way I would pass $7/mo to crunchyroll is if I valued the continued sustainability of the industry by that full amount, ignoring the value obtained by also being able to use crunchyroll's service (if that made any sense). But since I know crunchyroll is just a middleman for the anime industry, I'd rather pass my $7/mo directly to the producing company instead, since the service crunchyroll is providing is essentially worth nothing (to me), since its competitors (fansubbers) offer the same thing for free.

I'm rambling, but my point is, there needs to be a better way for me to support the anime industry for me to begin forking up my money.
Your thoughts?

Edit: What's a better way for the anime industry to get its overseas fanbase to contribute in a way that adds value to those consumers as well?

I have to point out that the anime industry in the USA is dying. Not in Japan. With that being said, the only way to boost the anime industry in the USA is to buy more.

Buy a few Japanese DVD or BD that you love. Even if you don't understand any/all of it. That is the very best method of injecting money into new things being done.

Places like amazon.co.jp or cdjapan.co.jp sell and ship almost everywhere.

Buying non subbed/dubbed dvds or mangas isn't helping anime in the USA, and that's what that video was about. Buying the media that they put out for English speaking people is what will help. Anime in the USA is big, but not that big. Aside from a handful of shows that have become mainstream over here, most of the anime isn't. The reason why companies are stopping the production of subbed/dubbed anime for the USA is that it's not being sold. In order for anime to do better here, more anime needs to be bought and more needs to become mainstream to drag in more fans.

[ConsiderPhlebas]

I was answering based on "I'd rather pass my $7/mo directly to the producing company instead," which implies OP isn't interested in supporting American licensors, but the people creating the stuff. Of course, anyone that wants to support licensed anime needs to buy Funimation-tachi DVD/BD or subscribe to CR.

[brunoais]

In my case, I prefer to support the japanese, also.
I watch anime in Crunchyroll when I like it (even though, only a rare supply of the ones I like are available on my country and on Crunchyroll)

Sometimes, when I reeeally like an anime, I buy the DVD (BD's are too %"$%#@£$&$% expensive) and then order it to a fake address. (Google translator really a good friend here!) I order to inside jp, just because it's cheeper and I'm not sending money to other useless stuff outside the actual anime industry.
I also don't want that DVD at all. I have no use for it, so I don't care if they get the DVD back because the address does not exist.
I don't do this much, though as I don't have much money. But I really want to do this for anime that I particularely like.
An anime that stands out from the others I had seen (the winner, for now, is comedy!).

I have some reservations about streaming websites... yet... this seems to be the best option to keep ths "engine" running. Even though fansubs are are huge competitor of "official" subs. Not only because they are free, they are better and the include useful translator notes which official ones do not have.

[ConsiderPhlebas]

I wouldn't mind paying for CR even if I still'd watch the fansubs, but as long as even some of the commercials show up as "this is blocked in your country", no way. If they want to sell their stuff, they'll have to get their act together and realize the world has changed. This, along with DVD and BD region coding is stupid and must go away before I take them seriously.

[EmptyMemory]

I think for me, it's also a matter of supporting the shows I like. As of right now, I'm supporting all shows equally (i.e. not at all). While I want to encourage the creation of the types of anime I enjoy, monetarily, I'm encouraging the types of anime I don't care for just as much.

Take for example the not-so-mystery that is the rising popularity of moe/ecchi/loli/cheap slice-of-life/school-life romance bullshit. Regardless of whether we think a majority of what is popular among the Japanese otaku is crap, the fact of the matter is, it's still being made. It's still being made because, as Ozzaharwood has suggested to me, the merchandise for those types of anime are bought more frequently.

While supporting the anime industry as a whole is a cool idea, I think notion of supporting the shows you actually enjoy is a much more important matter. If you as an individual want to tell the anime industry to keep making shit that you don't think sucks, then we should be throwing money at the shows we approve of. And while all of what I'm saying sounds super obvious, I think I can make an educated guess here in saying most of us don't do our part in compensating the creators of the shows we've actually come to enjoy.

But, I also appreciate why we don't.

I think if the anime industry doesn't care enough about us to try and get the anime into American markets with subtitles, then why should we care about supporting them? Without fansubs, most of us wouldn't be watching anime anyway, because we wouldn't understand it unless we understood Japanese.

All in all, it makes me sad that I don't have an effective way to show the creators of the shows I enjoy that I value their work. And while I do have the option to do as brunoais has done, I'm not going to do so because I also value the roof over my head and the food on my plate that I enjoy while I'm watching my damn free fansubbed anime.

[Xycolian2332]

There's going to be a better way to support the anime industry through streaming soon:

www.animenewsnetwor k.com/news/2013-02-26/nikkei/adk-toei-aniplex-sunrise-tms-nas-dentsu-to-stream-anime-overseas

[revo]

I care about quality

I have Nausicaa from US (disney)
Evangelion 1,2 from US (funi)
RedLine from UK (manga)
Arrietty from UK (studiocanal )
... and few more

They ALL  suck compared to Japanese release

That is why I'm not supporting them anymore

Blurays from Japan are too expensive for me :\

[AceD]

I've donated to BBT and some fansubbers in the past.

Anime industry supported©

[Mistgun_Zero]

When the time comes I would be able to afford stuff, I would rather buy DVD's/BD's from Japan. I don't live in USA, also don't see any reason to buy an US version. Cause most of the amount I would spend would rather go to the distributors and only a small portion to the Japanese counterpart. (even though I get it in English). I would only be buying my fav animes though.(though most of the are the most costliest. Kara no Kyoukai ($600+ for the fucking BD set, OUCCHHH!!!), Fate series (another costly stuff) and the like)

Oh also I like brunoais idea. Ever sent hentai?
EDIT: Coalgirls were once selling their copy of Kara no Kyokai after they had used it to rip their release. It was much cheaper, I have ever regretted not buying it.

[SeventyX7]

How much anime is created with a Western audience in mind?  How often are the preferences of the Western consumer considered when crafting an anime?

From my perspective it seems anime caters to the Japanese and none others.  There isn't any serious consideration to money that could be made overseas, that's always an afterthought IF their anime was successful.

In other words, "supporting" the anime producers doesn't mean anything if your support doesn't build any consideration.  All it does is tell them "keep doing what you're already doing." 

If you want more moe/ecchi adaptations of superior manga/vn/ln works, then yeah, buy some anime.   

[Tiffanys]

The biggest problem with paid streaming sites is that they don't have everything and the sub quality isn't as good as fansubbers. Not to mention that "Westernization" a lot of times is crap, and censoring is ridiculous... especially when it gets to the point that it doesn't even match up with what was originally going on.

If it were just dubs then maybe it would be fine, though there aren't many dubs so it wouldn't warrant a subscription on its own. Though, I don't really like streaming in general. Either the quality isn't very good or you have to wait for buffering. I like the consistency and not having the requirement of being online and not having to worry about buffering or internet speed or anything else.

With that said, supporting streaming sites supports the streaming sites more than the anime industry and even buying the physical media supports the physical distributors more than the industry itself as well. I don't really know of any good way of supporting the anime makers directly while cutting out the middlemen that eat most of the profits.

[Nikkoru]

I'm not going to buy movies directly from Japanese producers simply to assuage guilt of not supporting an artist. I'm more than willing to purchase North American releases of movies, box sets of television series, and manga I like. If that doesn't translate into money for its creators that's not my problem.

I don't want streaming either, if I'm paying money I want something I can hold in my hands.

[Zalis116]

Without fansubs, most of us wouldn't be watching anime anyway, because we wouldn't understand it unless we understood Japanese. We'd only be able to watch officially translated subbed or dubbed stuff. And the majority of anime series are not subbed/dubbed officially.

Can you name any anime season since 2009 where a majority of the series were not officially streamed at CR/NicoNico/Viz/Hulu/Funimation/ANN/TAN while they were airing?  Sure, if you reach back into history and include the many 70s/80s/90s anime that never got official English releases, I suppose your statement is true. But for recent stuff that people are likely to care about, the amount that's officially available is at least approaching majority.

All I'll add to what others have said is that buying something is better than buying nothing, whether that something is a Japanese release or an overseas one. Buying overseas releases does inject money into the global anime industry, which foreign licensees use to pay royalties and acquire new licenses. Watching official streams, whether through subscriptions or ad-supported, is still participating in the system rather than simply taking from it.

Not to mention that "Westernization" a lot of times is crap, and censoring is ridiculous... especially when it gets to the point that it doesn't even match up with what was originally going on.

What paid streaming sites have censorship that goes beyond the same censorship that appears on Japanese TV and fansubbed rips thereof? Of course they're not going to have the premium satellite broadcast or DVD/BD versions most of the time, since the TV/streamed versions are supposed to be an enticement to buy the uncensored releases. And while I've got my complaints about official stream subs, I've never seen the sort of 1990s-esque content censorship that you're implying exists in the translations. Sure, some of them are localized, but not any worse than what you'd see from fansubbers like gg and Commie. (Less trolling, too.)

[Mcgreag]

You don't have to buy DVD/BDs to support the industry, another way is to buy merchandise of various types. Many anime (think gundam and similar) are mainly created to sell merchandise. Just make sure it's official licensed stuff and not copies if supporting the industry is important to you.

[Sakubo]

The biggest problem with paid streaming sites is that they don't have everything and the sub quality isn't as good as fansubbers. Not to mention that "Westernization" a lot of times is crap, and censoring is ridiculous... especially when it gets to the point that it doesn't even match up with what was originally going on.

If it were just dubs then maybe it would be fine, though there aren't many dubs so it wouldn't warrant a subscription on its own. Though, I don't really like streaming in general. Either the quality isn't very good or you have to wait for buffering. I like the consistency and not having the requirement of being online and not having to worry about buffering or internet speed or anything else.

With that said, supporting streaming sites supports the streaming sites more than the anime industry and even buying the physical media supports the physical distributors more than the industry itself as well. I don't really know of any good way of supporting the anime makers directly while cutting out the middlemen that eat most of the profits.

I'm curious have you actually watched a site like crunchy roll recently? The subs for most crunchy roll shows are just as good as fansubbers now. In fact half the fan subbers use crunchy roll subs and just make some minor changes. Also unless you have a slow internet connection you shouldn't have buffering issues. I don't want to spend money on a lot of different sites that handle streaming but I don't mind spending money on one site that has a lot. I have a subscription with crunchy roll that I have had for several years now. Its like 69.95 a year for full anime and drama membership so I figure its not a bad deal I mean its not much more than a ps3 game and I buy those every month.

   As far as supporting the industry goes I live in the US and I try and buy anime series I like. I do tend to buy a lot of manga mostly because scans for manga are often slow or bad quality and sometimes its easier to just buy the books. I don't see any reason to import series from japan unless you can actually understand Japanese. I mean sure it would be nice to have in your collection but what's the point of buying something you will never use? I mean you aren't going to watch the unsubbed show and you wouldn't be able to loan them out to anyone if you ever wanted to introduce a series to a friend or whatever. Now I can understand not buying a lot of series if you don't have much money. But people should at least try to get some stuff that they really enjoy. I mean anime is already much cheaper in the US than it is in Japan so there really is no excuse to never buying anything other than your just cheap.

[Tatsujin]

I purchase BDs, figures (mostly FIGMA) and other rare goods - all from Japan. I only purchase manga and light novels (so far, only Spice and Wolf is worth my money). I do not purchase anything from local merchants or licensors within or outside the country.

[Bob2004]

I would subscribe to CR, since the majority of airing anime are streamed at roughly the same time nowadays anyway, and the translation quality is usually pretty decent (a lot of their staff are ex-fansubbers, after all). But the video is terrible (seriously, one look at their 1080p preview put me off immediately), and I much prefer having actual files saved to my computer which I can watch any time I want, without having to worry about having an internet connection, and which I can copy to my phone to watch while travelling, or do whatever I want with.

If CR could achieve equivalent quality to fansubbers in all aspects, and were able to provide offline downloads (never gonna happen - which also means good quality won't happen, since fansub quality is too high bitrate to easily stream for most people), then I'd subscribe in an instant. But they don't, so I won't.

Also, I may be misremembering this, but didn't CR start of as a fansub group as well? Except, unlike other groups, they had the bright idea of charging people money for their releases (obviously, none of that went to the original creators). Then they made so much money that way that they were able to form a company and go legal. I'm not 100% sure if that's true or not (it was before my time), but if so, then I'd be very dubious about paying them any money. I don't want to support people who would do that kind of thing.

There's going to be a better way to support the anime industry through streaming soon:

www.animenewsnetwor k.com/news/2013-02-26/nikkei/adk-toei-aniplex-sunrise-tms-nas-dentsu-to-stream-anime-overseas

That's been out for a while now, actually: https://www.daisuki.net/ It doesn't have many titles yet, but it could grow to be a good alternative to CR in time, with luck.