Author Topic: Supporting the Anime Industry  (Read 2959 times)

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2013, 11:52:33 PM »
Buying other stuff, obviously.
Doesn't justify shit. She's been talking about upgrading her computer, too. My curiosity will end in a matter of a while.

This thread is useless as it is.


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Online Tiffanys

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2013, 11:59:55 PM »
Tiff, you make a lot more money than me. I know that for sure. What the fuck do you do with your money, if I may ask? Besides saving it.

How do you know that for sure? I work for a non-profit, it isn't exactly a lot of money like I'd be making in a big pharma. Also, I have a 5000sq ft house. Utilities alone are a bitch...

I traded convenience and a job I want to do versus making a lot of money. It's the tradeoff I had to make, and I'm alright with that choice, but it doesn't make a lot of money. With utilities, groceries, insurance, taxes, and everything... I don't make all that much money to be terribly honest. Not that any of this is any of your business in the first place though...

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2013, 12:01:29 AM »
Tiff, you make a lot more money than me. I know that for sure. What the fuck do you do with your money, if I may ask? Besides saving it.

How do you know that for sure? I work for a non-profit, it isn't exactly a lot of money like I'd be making in a big pharma. Also, I have a 5000sq ft house. Utilities alone are a bitch...

I traded convenience and a job I want to do versus making a lot of money. It's the tradeoff I had to make, and I'm alright with that choice, but it doesn't make a lot of money. With utilities, groceries, insurance, taxes, and everything... I don't make all that much money to be terribly honest. Not that any of this is any of your business in the first place though...
I went out of line. Sorry.

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I am hitting my quirks without going to sleep. Oh well, kill La KILL ep. 4, commencing.


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Offline megido-rev.M

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2013, 12:04:26 AM »
I am hitting my quirks without going to sleep. Oh well, kill La KILL ep. 4, commencing.

Maybe you'll wake up at 4am lol.

Offline CappinHoff

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2013, 05:36:30 AM »
I replied to this ages ago but I'll just say that I don't "support" the anime industry for the same reason I don't support the movie or music industry. Key reason? The price is unreasonable.

1. The price is unreasonable.
2. They aren't offering a service that I want.
3. The product isn't in the format that I want.
4. It isn't convenient.

I wrote a blog about this nearly a year ago.

(click to show/hide)

Why compare it to the movie and music industry? The anime industry is completely different. Think of the anime industry more like the sports card industry. There isn't as many studios as there are movie and music. It's more of a niche sect than the movie/music industries. Prices with always be somewhat higher due to the product being made in another country, licensed, then translated and repacked here. The prices charged for Anime are more just and reasonable than anything else out there. Games, movies and music are highly overpriced.

Piracy exists for 1 reason... because we can.
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Offline zherok

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2013, 07:04:58 AM »
Piracy exists for 1 reason... because we can.
Nah, you can certainly price people out of your market.

Cable TV does it. Game of Thrones requires a cable tv subscription alongside a separate HBO subscription. Probably a minimum of $30 a month. Game of Thrones is incredibly pirated. On the flip side it's less likely to be done with something incredibly accessible, like say Breaking Bad. It costs me a quarter a day for Netflix even if I only want to watch Breaking Bad. Hell, Netflix even uses piracy rates to determine what shows they should try to go after.

Is anime there? I think Crunchyroll sits somewhere in between Netflix and HBOGo. It's a single service, with a Netflix like price ($7-12 a month.) But like HBO it's also incredibly niche. To the point that the whole reason Crunchyroll exists is because people were fansubbing it for free first.

The real question is whether anime is profitable at a price people aren't willing to bootleg it at. I have no real desire to bootleg Breaking Bad when it costs me a quarter a day. But even if anime is cheaper than it is in Japan I might not be willing to pay for a Netflix that only has anime.

Online brunoais

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2013, 10:49:17 AM »
I wrote a blog about this nearly a year ago.
... which is still a lot correct but companies are still too subborn to see that happening also because it will not happen suddendly it will happen, with luck, in a time frame of 2-3 years
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Offline EmptyMemory

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2013, 11:15:57 AM »
Something I found interesting is the way Hank Green is at least trying to adapt to the change in which video is being watched in today's age. He, along with his brother, have a fairly large subscription base on their YouTube channel, vlogbrothers, and now he's trying to find a different way in which he and people like him can earn a living from their video making efforts. While currently he gets compensated through YouTube's partnership program, he realizes his paycheques are reflections of the views he gets, instead of it being proportional to how much his viewers give a shit. And so, he created https://subbable.com/. Subbable gives viewers the power to "support the projects they love in an ongoing way."

If I could do this for anime, I would, without a doubt. At Subbable, viewers give what they feel is appropriate, and it's pretty cool to see that Subbable has, for instance, earned Crash Course 93% of their monthly funding goals.

This thread is useless as it is.

Cool story bro. I could initiate a whole other discussion about why talking about the things we care about in a meaningful way is important to supporting them, but honestly, I suspect that doing so with you would be no more productive than sticking my head in a vacuum.

So instead, I'll insist that you and your ill mannered atmosphere bugger off.


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Online Tiffanys

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2013, 12:48:41 PM »
I thought he didn't get money through YT since he doesn't have ads?

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2013, 12:57:58 PM »
Something I found interesting is the way Hank Green is at least trying to adapt to the change in which video is being watched in today's age. He, along with his brother, have a fairly large subscription base on their YouTube channel, vlogbrothers, and now he's trying to find a different way in which he and people like him can earn a living from their video making efforts. While currently he gets compensated through YouTube's partnership program, he realizes his paycheques are reflections of the views he gets, instead of it being proportional to how much his viewers give a shit. And so, he created https://subbable.com/. Subbable gives viewers the power to "support the projects they love in an ongoing way."

If I could do this for anime, I would, without a doubt. At Subbable, viewers give what they feel is appropriate, and it's pretty cool to see that Subbable has, for instance, earned Crash Course 93% of their monthly funding goals.

This thread is useless as it is.

Cool story bro. I could initiate a whole other discussion about why talking about the things we care about in a meaningful way is important to supporting them, but honestly, I suspect that doing so with you would be no more productive than sticking my head in a vacuum.

So instead, I'll insist that you and your ill mannered atmosphere bugger off.
It is useless. How many related threads do we have roaming around here? I can recall at least two more.

And you can eat shit since you have such little weak young skin.

I am hitting my quirks without going to sleep. Oh well, kill La KILL ep. 4, commencing.

Maybe you'll wake up at 4am lol.
I woke up at 8:30 AM, haha.

Piracy exists for 1 reason... because we can.
Nah, you can certainly price people out of your market.

Cable TV does it. Game of Thrones requires a cable tv subscription alongside a separate HBO subscription. Probably a minimum of $30 a month. Game of Thrones is incredibly pirated. On the flip side it's less likely to be done with something incredibly accessible, like say Breaking Bad. It costs me a quarter a day for Netflix even if I only want to watch Breaking Bad. Hell, Netflix even uses piracy rates to determine what shows they should try to go after.

Is anime there? I think Crunchyroll sits somewhere in between Netflix and HBOGo. It's a single service, with a Netflix like price ($7-12 a month.) But like HBO it's also incredibly niche. To the point that the whole reason Crunchyroll exists is because people were fansubbing it for free first.

The real question is whether anime is profitable at a price people aren't willing to bootleg it at. I have no real desire to bootleg Breaking Bad when it costs me a quarter a day. But even if anime is cheaper than it is in Japan I might not be willing to pay for a Netflix that only has anime.
The problem with Anime is the high prices they charge. Sometimes it feels like it is about right since they include a bunch of extras and a nice case with it but sometimes it feels like "Well, this is too expensive". I wish they would cut the costs by half.


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Offline zherok

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2013, 02:09:55 PM »
Quote
The problem with Anime is the high prices they charge. Sometimes it feels like it is about right since they include a bunch of extras and a nice case with it but sometimes it feels like "Well, this is too expensive". I wish they would cut the costs by half.
Americans won't really pay Japanese prices to match their "limited editions" and consequently we end up with more mundane versions, that happen to cost 2-5 times less than they do in Japan.

With anime as niche as it is I can't imagine it dropping by half as an industry standard. Still way cheaper to get it here than it is there.

Offline Bob2004

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2013, 02:20:58 PM »
You do realise that English-language anime, manga, and games are sold at a MASSIVE discount compared to the Japanese originals, right? In Japan it is all extremely expensive, as is the related merchandise. There are two main reasons for this, though how much each applies depends on the anime/studio.

Firstly, the majority of anime is just incredibly niche. It really isn't that popular. As such, since they can't expect large numbers of sales in even the best circumstances, producers have no choice but to target a higher profit per sale. Or in other words, charge higher prices so they can make enough money to cover development costs in 20,000 sales instead of 200,000.

The second reason, and the main reason English-language releases are cheaper, is a difference in attitude between Japanese and American consumers. Here in the west, we consider it to be entertainment - we expect to buy the DVDs, watch them once or twice, and get our money's worth out of it just through that. The only thing we're purchasing, for the most part, is the experience of watching the anime itself.

The majority of Japanese anime fans, on the other hand, look at it slightly differently. For them, a DVD or blu-ray or whatever is as much a collector's item as an entertainment experience. They buy anime as much, if not more, for the purpose of putting it on their shelf and adding to their collection, showing it off as a point of pride. They buy it as much for the physical box the anime comes in, as for the anime itself, in other words.

Some western consumers do this too, especially for shows they really like, but not to anywhere near the same extent. So since every single anime release is designed as a collector's item, the prices are naturally higher - as collector's items are wont to be.

There are some anime which fall more under one rule than the other. For example, I went to the Ghibli shop in Kamakura not too long ago, for example, and even everything there was ridiculously expensive - if anything, more so than most anime merchandise. Ghibli films are among the most watched in Japan, so rather than being niche, it was purely due to the collector's nature of it. Though Kamakura is just expensive in general, which also doesn't help.

But yeah, my point is that anime is generally priced at a level where it can actually turn a profit, and where it is considered to be good value by the majority of its target audience. That target audience just happens to have a very different attitude to those of us in the west.

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2013, 05:57:10 PM »
Bob, you mentioned they target on average 20,000 in sales. Is that PER volume or is that in whole for, say, a single season (13 episodes on average)?


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Offline megido-rev.M

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2013, 11:27:35 PM »
Bob, you mentioned they target on average 20,000 in sales. Is that PER volume or is that in whole for, say, a single season (13 episodes on average)?

I think it's both. There's releases consisting of one or a few eps each and there's boxes of those to make a full season or two.
Or whatever the units are.

Offline zherok

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2013, 12:10:05 AM »
The division of episodes is ridiculous. Persona 4 is two blu-rays in the US. It's ten in Japan. And they cost about the same per volume. It's cheaper to reverse-import anime from the US than it is to buy locally. And while that might not actually be too common, they occasionally end up dropping the Japanese dub from the American blu-ray release solely because of fear that the Japanese market will do just that.

Offline Lord of Fire

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #75 on: October 28, 2013, 07:10:22 AM »
The division of episodes is ridiculous. Persona 4 is two blu-rays in the US. It's ten in Japan. And they cost about the same per volume. It's cheaper to reverse-import anime from the US than it is to buy locally. And while that might not actually be too common, they occasionally end up dropping the Japanese dub from the American blu-ray release solely because of fear that the Japanese market will do just that.

It's also a reason why it takes so long for an anime to be released overseas after it's licensed.

They could solve that by putting English subtitles on the BDs/DVDs (which is already happening to a few shows and/or movies), and license it for dubs only. Of course, that would be problematic for those who want their anime with subtitles and not spend a godlike amount of money for a whole show.

Offline vuzedome

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #76 on: October 28, 2013, 02:12:26 PM »
Keep buying them chara CDs, plus all the nice little goodies from the first press.
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Offline Bob2004

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Re: Supporting the Anime Industry
« Reply #77 on: October 28, 2013, 02:37:23 PM »
Bob, you mentioned they target on average 20,000 in sales. Is that PER volume or is that in whole for, say, a single season (13 episodes on average)?

I just pulled that number out of my arse. You probably know far better than me how many copies get sold of anime DVDs.

But quickly looking at a totally random sales ranking, it looks like sales are mostly significantly lower than that. Of all the anime released in 2012, only 12 of them passed 10,000 sales cumulative within that year (though it's important to note that many of them were only partly released by the end of 2012 - many would have had further volumes coming out in 2013). The majority of anime sold well below 10,000 copies.

It actually looks to me as though 20,000 sales cumulative is enough to be considered moderately successful, or at least not a failure. The really successful ones, 2 or 3 each year, sell three or four times that, but generally no more.

Either way, compare it to sales volumes for mainstream TV, and total sales of anime really are very low. There's no doubt they rely on high pricing to turn a profit.