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Stats completely out of proportions...
Freedom Kira:
--- Quote from: Fool010 on June 25, 2013, 06:48:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 03:40:54 AM ---Why even bother signing up for an account then?
--- End quote ---
Access to the search function could be a reason
--- End quote ---
Not if you know how to Google. The Google search parameter for restricting searches to a certain site has existed for years, if not since the creation of Google itself, and the trick has been explained repeatedly on the forums. Hentai is also not exempt.
Seriously, if you don't have any interest in your ratio at all, don't have anything to contribute, don't have any interest in posting comments or forum posts, and don't care who else may be seeding or leeching torrents, you don't need an account. In fact, if all you're going to do is leech on the public tracker and seed on the private tracker, I would tell you explicitly to skip making an account and just be a public user, because otherwise you're just screwing up the global BakaBT ratio.
Saikoro:
--- Quote from: Al_Sleeper on June 24, 2013, 10:45:29 PM ---Public torrents in general have nothing to do with public versions of BakaBT torrents. The latter are in fact just private torrents with a special tracker url.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_%28protocol%29#Creating_and_publishing_torrents
--- End quote ---
Uh. Actually, i have not completely understood yet. >__>;
Could you sum it up again in a few words?
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 03:40:54 AM ---To be completely sure, it'd be best to have two clients running at once. Some clients don't like it when you try to overlap files in torrents.
--- End quote ---
It's not that important... i was just curious if it is easily possible. I'm not seeding THAT much anyway, only when i have utorrent running anyway (like, "Ah, i want to download that file!" and then i just leave it running to seed a bit).
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 03:40:54 AM ---The actual reason is that you end up seeding to two different swarms. The BakaBT swarm is entirely isolated from the rest of the torrenting world, for a good reason - on any torrent, the total amount downloaded within the swarm should always equal the total amount uploaded, with a small margin for random error. If you start seeding to another swarm (like Nyaa) and report your stats to BakaBT, your numbers will become more and more suspicious over time, and if you leave it going long enough, you could potentially exceed the total amount ever downloaded within BakaBT on that torrent, which would be interpreted as evidence of stat-hacking.
--- End quote ---
Huh? I thought the tracker only knows the amount of data i download/upload using this tracker...
Guess it works differently. xD ...
Damn, i don't get it. Hm... i am active on a torrent and the torrent trackers see "this person is active on this torrent"... ah, but it can't see whether the person i download/upload to is on the same or another tracker?
--- Quote from: Fool010 on June 25, 2013, 06:48:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 03:40:54 AM ---Why even bother signing up for an account then?
--- End quote ---
Access to the search function could be a reason
--- End quote ---
That's a pretty good guess, but it actually isn't the search function. (Yes, google tends to find anything with the right keywords).
It's just that i've been reading comments and downloading torrents on this site ever since its move from boxtorrents to baka bt and sometimes i felt like i wanted to write comments and talk to the others too. So i ended up making an account and i don't regret it so far.
Even if the others just find me annoying, i'm certainly not the only one, so it's okay (right? :D).
Had i known how much fun the forum is, i may have come over sooner.
The only thing i really don't like about bbt is that some companies get their material blacklisted, while others don't. It just doesn't feel fair.
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 08:57:50 AM ---In fact, if all you're going to do is leech on the public tracker and seed on the private tracker, I would tell you explicitly to skip making an account and just be a public user, because otherwise you're just screwing up the global BakaBT ratio.
--- End quote ---
Ah, beautiful numbers. ;)
Of course, i get what you mean, but as you yourself pointed out, the overall ratio of a torrent tracker will always be 1:1. The same amount of data is up- and downloaded. If the ratio says anything like 2:1, you know that for all of the good seeders counted there, there are people who are not counted who leech more than they seed.
I guess that the people aren't registered (or pretend not to be) somehow makes it better... like "all the people you see here give more than they take". But then again, i don't think a community should be something like a hall of fame, but more like a place all kinds of people meet to talk. People with seedboxes, people with pitiful upload speeds or in some other way seeding-impaired... does that really matter that much? Of course seeding is a noble act and should be honored, but without leechers there can't be seeding and a torrent tracker exists to transfer files. xD
So i'm seeing the "seeding fetish" a little critical, though i myself am always proud when looking at my overall utorrent ratio of 2.5 (in spite of baka bt XD). It's just that i know it will always be unbalanced. It's just not likely that every person using torrents gets an exact 1 ratio, on every torrent or globally. Some have more, that means that others have less.
Well... there are people who only leech and then delete the torrent without seeding at all, but stupid people always exist so i don't think it's worth getting worked up about. Who knows, they might just have 10kb/s max upload speed (which i had for most of my life too xD) and thus might feel it's not worth trying.
Sorry for getting off topic, it's just been bothering me somehow.
Al_Sleeper:
--- Quote from: Saikoro on June 25, 2013, 01:00:05 PM ---Could you sum it up again in a few words?
--- End quote ---
Public torrents can connect to all torrents with the same hash all over the net.
Private torrents can connect only to the torrents with the same hash on the same tracker(s).
Freedom Kira:
--- Quote from: Saikoro on June 25, 2013, 01:00:05 PM ---Uh. Actually, i have not completely understood yet. >__>;
Could you sum it up again in a few words?
--- End quote ---
The public tracker is just a special tracker that grants public access to the BakaBT swarm for the current month. The torrent file itself is still private. You can share the torrent with the public tracker on it (the torrent will still be marked private) to outsiders, keeping in mind that it will no longer work after the end of the month.
--- Quote from: Saikoro on June 25, 2013, 01:00:05 PM ---Huh? I thought the tracker only knows the amount of data i download/upload using this tracker...
Guess it works differently. xD ...
Damn, i don't get it. Hm... i am active on a torrent and the torrent trackers see "this person is active on this torrent"... ah, but it can't see whether the person i download/upload to is on the same or another tracker?
--- End quote ---
The amount you have seeded/leeched on the torrent, regardless of swarm, is updated to all trackers. BakaBT has a special system in place that isolates its users into a separate swarm. When you add trackers to a torrent, you're circumventing that system. Your client has no idea what's going on, and assumes everything is as it usually is, i.e. peers are just peers regardless of which tracker they're attached to.
--- Quote from: Saikoro on June 25, 2013, 01:00:05 PM ---The only thing i really don't like about bbt is that some companies get their material blacklisted, while others don't. It just doesn't feel fair.
--- End quote ---
The blacklist exists because certain companies send in C&D requests. Funimation is infamous for that. The companies that don't bother to do that don't get blacklisted. It's therefore not a question of fairness, but a means to avoid conflict and possible DMCA action.
--- Quote from: Saikoro on June 25, 2013, 01:00:05 PM ---Ah, beautiful numbers. ;)
Of course, i get what you mean, but as you yourself pointed out, the overall ratio of a torrent tracker will always be 1:1. The same amount of data is up- and downloaded. If the ratio says anything like 2:1, you know that for all of the good seeders counted there, there are people who are not counted who leech more than they seed.
I guess that the people aren't registered (or pretend not to be) somehow makes it better... like "all the people you see here give more than they take". But then again, i don't think a community should be something like a hall of fame, but more like a place all kinds of people meet to talk. People with seedboxes, people with pitiful upload speeds or in some other way seeding-impaired... does that really matter that much? Of course seeding is a noble act and should be honored, but without leechers there can't be seeding and a torrent tracker exists to transfer files. xD
So i'm seeing the "seeding fetish" a little critical, though i myself am always proud when looking at my overall utorrent ratio of 2.5 (in spite of baka bt XD). It's just that i know it will always be unbalanced. It's just not likely that every person using torrents gets an exact 1 ratio, on every torrent or globally. Some have more, that means that others have less.
Well... there are people who only leech and then delete the torrent without seeding at all, but stupid people always exist so i don't think it's worth getting worked up about. Who knows, they might just have 10kb/s max upload speed (which i had for most of my life too xD) and thus might feel it's not worth trying.
Sorry for getting off topic, it's just been bothering me somehow.
--- End quote ---
No, it's a bit more complicated than that. The global ratio does not cover data seeded/leeched on the public tracker. This means that, when you leech off the public tracker, you're increasing the global ratio because that data you're leeching comes mostly from private seeders, but the leeched amount isn't counting. It also doesn't cover members who have been pruned/deleted, and those members often have much more leeched than seeded. As you may expect, the global ratio is quite large as a result. Only the staff know the current number, but I'd expect it to be in double digits if you drop the decimal. And you thought your stats were "out of proportions."
If you take into account that the global ratio doesn't cover the public tracker, it follows that it affects the global ratio less if you don't seed on the private tracker at all after leeching off the public tracker, and that seeding on the public tracker can reverse your effects on it.
A mod once discussed with me that global ratio is used to make some judgments about how BakaBT is doing as a whole. It skews that judgment and whatever decisions are made based on those judgments when people leech publicly and seed privately. So, yes, it does have adverse effects aside from making your own ratio meaningless. You may not think you affect it much, but there are tons of members that do the same.
On the community, this certainly is a place for people to chat. That doesn't mean you shouldn't uphold certain standards for your ratio, which is an entirely separate issue. Heck, you can have a membership here just to chat on forums and never use your account for torrents. If you never log in to the tracker, your tracker account gets pruned after 11 months, but you can stay on the forums forever.
Saikoro:
Thanks for explaining private torrents, i think i get it now. :D
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 02:22:45 PM ---The blacklist exists because certain companies send in C&D requests. Funimation is infamous for that. The companies that don't bother to do that don't get blacklisted. It's therefore not a question of fairness, but a means to avoid conflict and possible DMCA action.
--- End quote ---
Hm, i already knew that. As a us website of course baka bt has to abide by us laws. Still, someone getting special treatment isn't right, no matter the reasoning.
I know this means that in consequence, all other us-licensed shows would have to be removed too and that would suck. :-\
So... i really don't know, just wish something could be done about it.
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 02:22:45 PM ---As you may expect, the global ratio is quite large as a result. Only the staff know the current number, but I'd expect it to be in double digits if you drop the decimal.
--- End quote ---
I thought you were referring to this number:
--- Quote from: BakaBT main page ---Overall ratio of our pooled peers is 23.073.
--- End quote ---
Well, that would fit your estimate. xD
But as registered members are encouraged to seed, i don't see this number going down anytime soon.
I also wonder if freeleech is included in that, now that you speak of ways to get your ratio up. *thought of downloading some freeleech torrents to get some activity on my account*
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 02:22:45 PM ---And you thought your stats were "out of proportions."
--- End quote ---
I never said that, the thread starter did. ^^
But i wonder what my ratio is like, as i already did download one freeleech torrent and also seeded it a bit... wouldn't it have to be "infinite" then?
Quite out of proportions then, imo. ;)
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 02:22:45 PM ---A mod once discussed with me that global ratio is used to make some judgments about how BakaBT is doing as a whole. It skews that judgment and whatever decisions are made based on those judgments when people leech publicly and seed privately. So, yes, it does have adverse effects aside from making your own ratio meaningless. You may not think you affect it much, but there are tons of members that do the same.
--- End quote ---
Well... as a total noob (look at the questions i asked xD) i've no idea what to do about this "problem". Guess the best thing to do would be to not take those numbers too seriously (like making important decisions only based on such numbers). I mean, the mods probably aren't stupid, so it should be okay.
--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on June 25, 2013, 02:22:45 PM ---Heck, you can have a membership here just to chat on forums and never use your account for torrents. If you never log in to the tracker, your tracker account gets pruned after 11 months, but you can stay on the forums forever.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, i think i've had my account pruned once or twice already. I'd like to prevent that in the future, but not sure if it's worth it. After all, when i remake the account, my comments and stuff will be back again too, right? *not certain about this*
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