720p vs 1080p (for already-upscaled BD video)

[blind51de]

I'm hoping to shop my group's first offer at the end of September for JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. I found a much more experienced encoder for this, so I can't be as articulate about these issues as I'd like to be.

But from the looks of things, the BDs have video upscaled from a 720p source. After also considering the extremely rich amount of colors driving up the filesize, we decided to stick with 720p+hi10  (filesize ranges from 500-550 on the low end, 800+ on the high end. Don't even ask how fat the creditless OPs are).

I'm aware that changing the video back to 720p doesn't do the quality any favors, but how big a detriment would this be compared to another group that would be offering at 1080p?

[Al_Sleeper]

No detriment at all. 720p and 1080p offers do not compete because they are assigned to different slots on BakaBT.

[Southrop]

We generally compare the 720p to the 1080p releases to see if it's worth taking a 1080p release. Some studio upscales may not necessarily be animated at 1080p, but they could still be higher than 720p and would benefit from the higher resolution. But if there is no benefit compared to 720p at all, we would simply not take a 1080p release.

[herki]

There's definitely some 1080p content in JoJo (at least according to the person encoding it for Commie) so yeah...

[cold_hell]

After also considering the extremely rich amount of colors driving up the filesize

it doesn't increases the filesize actually
3things can increase the filesize
a)Noise (dithering, grain or whatever they can add to cover the banding)
b)Fast motion moments (no reference between frames)/To many new scenes (in animes you can see slideshows for mor than 30secs..) that is why openings are huge
c)bloat - low CRF values (I love it)
at least the TV airing was 720p
If you have BDMV you can quickly resize few frames to 720p and back to 1080p with lancsoz - if there are there is no difference it is most likely upscale (OP and EDs for some shows are produced in higher resolution - so check them as well)

1080p and 720p are in different slots  (there is slot D as well), so both can be offered and accepted but there must be a benefit from the 1080p video

[blind51de]

Got it, thanks. I guess it's not just color but motion that some of these episodes are heavy on. The worst one is yet to come, and these aren't even bloat settings.

I trust my encoder when he says the source is 720p, so if we're ever challenged on that then I'm sure he can roll off a few comparisons.

[Ziron]

Doesn't it make sense to always allow 1080p due to chroma subsampling?

If you download anything besides 1080p you are getting downscaled color information. A 720p encode only has 360p of chroma if it is using traditional 4:2:0 subsampling. I think the only group that has ever bothered  taking chroma subsampling into account when releasing a 720p is NP-Complete.

[cold_hell]

Doesn't it make sense to always allow 1080p due to chroma subsampling?

If you download anything besides 1080p you are getting downscaled color information. A 720p encode only has 360p of chroma if it is using traditional 4:2:0 subsampling. I think the only group that has ever bothered  taking chroma subsampling into account when releasing a 720p is NP-Complete.

1280x720 4:4:4 = 1280x720 chroma
1280x720 4:2:2 = 640x720 chroma
1280x720 4:1:1 = 1280x360 chroma
1280x720 4:2:0 = 640x360 chroma
Blu-ray 1920x1080 4:2:0 = 960x540 chroma
=> 1280x720 4:4:4  upscale
while it preserve the colors (especially the red one)better than 4:2:0 I would go with 1080p since it will look more like the source

[Desbreko]

Doesn't it make sense to always allow 1080p due to chroma subsampling?

In my experience, the difference in chroma resolution is mostly unnoticeable when the show is a 720p upscale, unless it happens to have lots of highly saturated colors with sharp edges.