Author Topic: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone  (Read 10399 times)

Offline sawakosadako

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #120 on: July 31, 2013, 09:14:33 PM »
The forum has back online after the attack. The link got more detailed information about the processors and its comparison to other phone. They said the edge would at least use 2.4GHz quad-core, any idea what they're talking about?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2164185&highlight=ubuntu+edge
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #121 on: August 01, 2013, 12:23:42 AM »
baytrail is only limited to 2.1Ghz, not to mention TDP @ 2.1Ghz is 8watts.
theres particularly no chance of baytrail @ 2.4Ghz to occur, nor will one fit inside a phone.

but on the other hand, ARM A57 does scale upwards to 3Ghz, so its possible for it to be as such, their target TDP at 3Ghz is 4watts so thats plausible at 2.4Ghz.

i suggest taking that image with a grain of salt.

edit:
i wonder what they meant by "optimized for photo-realistic colors and contrast" when the best IPS and AMOLED of such is already present in current handsets, not to mention full HD @ 4.7" or 5.0"
or are they telling us theres such a magical screen hidden somewhere in the market?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 12:31:53 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline mgz

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #122 on: August 01, 2013, 02:13:33 AM »
Pace seems to have slowed down pretty considerably. $32M just seems completely outta the question at this stage for crowd-funding.
yea pretty much what i expected its now down to a crawl. 32m isnt outta the question for crowd sourcing it is out of the question for a project like this however

Offline halfelite

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #123 on: August 01, 2013, 02:20:22 AM »
Pace seems to have slowed down pretty considerably. $32M just seems completely outta the question at this stage for crowd-funding.
yea pretty much what i expected its now down to a crawl. 32m isnt outta the question for crowd sourcing it is out of the question for a project like this however

I think they could hit if it they changed there pricing tiers up. ouya hit 8mill because at 99$ it was not a big deal if it never came through. If they had more 725$ options I think it would pick back up again

Online zherok

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #124 on: August 01, 2013, 03:42:30 AM »
Other than crowd funding efforts that have kept open indefinitely (Star Citizen for example) there aren't many that have topped the Ouya in total funding. If there's a project out there that can capture that amount of money, nothing's managed to do it yet in 30 days.

And the Ouya had a far lower production minimum than the Edge does. Plenty of projects have managed that minimum. Nothing yet has gotten even close to what the Edge requires.

I'm guessing this is far too niche, far too time sensitive (you're pre ordering a phone how far in advance?), and far too expensive to draw up what amounts to a fairly huge amount of backers for any project, nevermind one requiring a minimum of $725 to even get the product in question.

Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #125 on: August 01, 2013, 07:24:08 AM »
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/2284272/canonicals-crowdfunding-of-ubuntu-edge-stretches-credibility-to-the-breaking-point

That article brings up an interesting point about the 4GB RAM thing - the processor kinda has to either have PAE on x86 or be x64 altogether. I hadn't thought about that.

i wonder what they meant by "optimized for photo-realistic colors and contrast" when the best IPS and AMOLED of such is already present in current handsets, not to mention full HD @ 4.7" or 5.0"
or are they telling us theres such a magical screen hidden somewhere in the market?

I really wish you'd watch the video posted since day 1 or read the entire page at IndieGoGo before you open your mouth. Shuttleworth may be vague about a lot of things, but I think he makes his reasoning pretty damn clear about the screen and display and why they are the way they are.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 07:26:07 AM by Freedom Kira »

Offline kitamesume

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #126 on: August 01, 2013, 07:45:04 AM »
i wonder what they meant by "optimized for photo-realistic colors and contrast" when the best IPS and AMOLED of such is already present in current handsets, not to mention full HD @ 4.7" or 5.0"
or are they telling us theres such a magical screen hidden somewhere in the market?

I really wish you'd watch the video posted since day 1 or read the entire page at IndieGoGo before you open your mouth. Shuttleworth may be vague about a lot of things, but I think he makes his reasoning pretty damn clear about the screen and display and why they are the way they are.
i did, but i didn't hear anything about how they'll chase "optimized for photo-realistic colors and contrast" anywhere in the video in a sense that they'll end up being better than competition?
2:20~3:10 did mention about the screen, but thats what current competition is providing already.
so what are you getting into?

edit: no really, have you ever seen any panels thats better than a (calibrated or not) IPS or AMOLED?



edit: someone updated silvermont in wikipedia, Baytrail-T is back as a possiblity again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvermont_%28microarchitecture%29

although by laws of physics 2W SDP won't allow 2.4Ghz :P
if you look at N2805, it has 4.5W TDP @ 1.46Ghz

edit: now that i think about it, how do they sink the phone's CPU? do they all leave it bare or are some phone designs have some sort of heatsink that connects to the backcover?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 10:16:56 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline mgz

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #127 on: August 01, 2013, 10:36:43 AM »
Pace seems to have slowed down pretty considerably. $32M just seems completely outta the question at this stage for crowd-funding.
yea pretty much what i expected its now down to a crawl. 32m isnt outta the question for crowd sourcing it is out of the question for a project like this however

I think they could hit if it they changed there pricing tiers up. ouya hit 8mill because at 99$ it was not a big deal if it never came through. If they had more 725$ options I think it would pick back up again
yea even that wouldnt really help that much i dont think, cuz if your willing to pay 725 its only 105 more, at that rate if you want it you are buying it. They probably need a portion of them at 830 to actually make a little money

Offline sawakosadako

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #128 on: August 01, 2013, 12:39:28 PM »
baytrail is only limited to 2.1Ghz, not to mention TDP @ 2.1Ghz is 8watts.
theres particularly no chance of baytrail @ 2.4Ghz to occur, nor will one fit inside a phone.

but on the other hand, ARM A57 does scale upwards to 3Ghz, so its possible for it to be as such, their target TDP at 3Ghz is 4watts so thats plausible at 2.4Ghz.

i suggest taking that image with a grain of salt.

edit:
i wonder what they meant by "optimized for photo-realistic colors and contrast" when the best IPS and AMOLED of such is already present in current handsets, not to mention full HD @ 4.7" or 5.0"
or are they telling us theres such a magical screen hidden somewhere in the market?

Any chance for overclocking the processors? There's some talk on AMA about making the processors overclocked when docked. You could design the dock to disperse the heat and besides the power issue isn't a problem anymore since it's docked and there could be external power to overcome the battery usage.

You know what I think that could make this campaign moving again. The corporate backers, should take all the 100 bundles. That should give a message that there's companies behind Ubuntu Touch to make it a success.
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #129 on: August 01, 2013, 01:34:20 PM »
overclocking isn't usually possible with such chips, its already proven with current line sandybridge, ivybridge and haswell locked chips.

although in another case theres an update with silvermont baytrail, unconfirmed so take it with a grain of salt, since usually theres some trolls which puts values in the blank slates without basis.

edit: someone updated silvermont in wikipedia, Baytrail-T is back as a possiblity again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvermont_%28microarchitecture%29

although by laws of physics 2W SDP won't allow 2.4Ghz :P
if you look at N2805, it has 4.5W TDP @ 1.46Ghz

edit: now that i think about it, how do they sink the phone's CPU? do they all leave it bare or are some phone designs have some sort of heatsink that connects to the backcover?

theres some discrepancy i see on this one at the moment is it's vague max turbo clock, if you'd look the other baytrail lines above you'd conclude that 2.4Ghz isn't possible at under 8watts.
SDP @ 2watts could mean it'll run at 800Mhz, which is typical as well, but not much more.
the problem now is the missing TDP values, even if we estimate it being 8watts @ 2.4Ghz you'd end up melting solder-joins with sheer heat dissipation, considering passive 8watt-atom needed massive heatsinks to keep themselves running below 80c.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 01:39:58 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #130 on: August 02, 2013, 06:48:41 AM »
i did, but i didn't hear anything about how they'll chase "optimized for photo-realistic colors and contrast" anywhere in the video in a sense that they'll end up being better than competition?
2:20~3:10 did mention about the screen, but thats what current competition is providing already.
so what are you getting into?

edit: no really, have you ever seen any panels thats better than a (calibrated or not) IPS or AMOLED?

This article seems to think that the iPhone 5's display blows the S3's display out of the water, and this one finds that the S4 improved it to the point of matching the iPhone 5. There's always room for improvement though - none of these displays are perfectly spot-on. Whether or not Canonical can beat that really just depends on time and the constant pursuit for better display technology.

Offline kitamesume

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #131 on: August 02, 2013, 11:35:31 AM »
indeed, they're being unspecific to the point of it sounding like pure sweet-talk, the only way they can pull it off is if they go at it with utmost calibration.
but theres one problem, even professional screens charge huge premium for factory calibrated screens, specially ones that has less than 1% discrepancy.
on the other hand, who'd need that much of precision on a handset, usually professionals use bigger screens for those sort of purpose anyway.



i'm starting to think that all those paper specs were wishful thinking  :-\
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 11:44:58 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline sawakosadako

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #132 on: August 02, 2013, 01:51:50 PM »
Looks like they'll be $14 million short according to this projection.

www.openanalytics.e u/blog/using-kickstarter-data-predict-ubuntu-edges-success

There's an AMA session regarding Ubuntu for Android, http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1jqfce/we_are_the_engineering_team_behind_ubuntu_for/?sort=old
Looks like if the edge is fail, Ubuntu for Android became a closed project. It needs the edge to achieved its goal for it to be an AOSP.
Quote
[–]chizangUbuntu for Android 59 ポイント 5 時間 前

Hi, a clarification on what cwayne18 said.

If the Edge campaign funds, the Android piece will be based on AOSP, and our UfA patches will be correspondingly based. We will follow good development guidelines and our patches against AOSP should be easy to extract from our git trees. So it would be easy for any developers to take our work and build on it.

Now for commercial versions of UfA, where we work with OEMs, we will respect whatever rules the OEM asks us to follow. Since Android is BSD licensed, it would be unlikely that we would be able to open source the commercial versions.

Bottom line, the easiest way to see an open source version of UfA is for the Edge project to fund!
Looks like they're using a new trick to get the Android users to join the campaign.

Btw, this is a really cool GPU for mobile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJivWTHItjM
@mod: I got a new information that I want to post, but I'm the last person that posted here. Is this considered as a double post? If I've just edit the last post nobody will be notified, so I decided to double post. Let me know if it's not allowed. Thanks.

Duki3003 edit: Yes, don't double post.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 09:18:13 AM by Duki3003 »
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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2013, 06:01:26 AM »
Since your previous post was so recent, this thread is still on the first page of the Technology board, and therefore anyone browsing the Technology board would notice the "new" indicator on the thread name if you just edit your post. So yes, I believe it does count as a double post.

I think they're kinda too late with this AMA thing. They should have done this from day 1, when more people were interested and paying attention. Doing this now only got them a ~$300k boost.

Offline mgz

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #134 on: August 06, 2013, 10:09:39 AM »
Looks like they'll be $14 million short according to this projection.

www.openanalytics.e u/blog/using-kickstarter-data-predict-ubuntu-edges-success

There's an AMA session regarding Ubuntu for Android, http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1jqfce/we_are_the_engineering_team_behind_ubuntu_for/?sort=old
Looks like if the edge is fail, Ubuntu for Android became a closed project. It needs the edge to achieved its goal for it to be an AOSP.
Quote
[–]chizangUbuntu for Android 59 ポイント 5 時間 前

Hi, a clarification on what cwayne18 said.

If the Edge campaign funds, the Android piece will be based on AOSP, and our UfA patches will be correspondingly based. We will follow good development guidelines and our patches against AOSP should be easy to extract from our git trees. So it would be easy for any developers to take our work and build on it.

Now for commercial versions of UfA, where we work with OEMs, we will respect whatever rules the OEM asks us to follow. Since Android is BSD licensed, it would be unlikely that we would be able to open source the commercial versions.

Bottom line, the easiest way to see an open source version of UfA is for the Edge project to fund!
Looks like they're using a new trick to get the Android users to join the campaign.

Btw, this is a really cool GPU for mobile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJivWTHItjM
@mod: I got a new information that I want to post, but I'm the last person that posted here. Is this considered as a double post? If I've just edit the last post nobody will be notified, so I decided to double post. Let me know if it's not allowed. Thanks.

Duki3003 edit: Yes, don't double post.
at the rate they are going i doubt they will break 15 million things have literally just come to a screeching halt

Offline sawakosadako

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2013, 04:25:08 PM »
About double post, okay got that.

Yeah it's pretty obvious they're going to fail. They did an AMA session with Mark not long after the campaign.
Anyway I like how you could navigate with your phone screen while on desktop mode. This should solve the issue to bring a keyboard a long with you. It's just too shame if the source won't be available.

Using something like this for navigation also pretty cool. Just watch a couple minutes ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SkdfdXWYaI
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Offline Gh0st93

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #136 on: August 07, 2013, 12:40:34 AM »
Just for the device itself would be great imo you can have Linux and or android, with build quality like that of an iPhone but a bit cooler really a tougher screen. Combine that with that storage and you have an iPhone, nexus, iPod classic like device with Linux and direct desktop connectivity. This would be totally cool how useful I'm not quite sure how nice of a phone but really close to a "all in one" system.
(in reality I'm really not interested in this as a phone... lol)

But yeah it appears the funding isn't where they need it to be at so that's a real shame, maybe they can work out a new plan.
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #137 on: August 07, 2013, 06:02:11 AM »
Just for the device itself would be great imo you can have Linux and or android, with build quality like that of an iPhone but a bit cooler really a tougher screen. Combine that with that storage and you have an iPhone, nexus, iPod classic like device with Linux and direct desktop connectivity. This would be totally cool how useful I'm not quite sure how nice of a phone but really close to a "all in one" system.
(in reality I'm really not interested in this as a phone... lol)

But yeah it appears the funding isn't where they need it to be at so that's a real shame, maybe they can work out a new plan.
yeah sure, drop the price to $700 flat and it'll gain another $2M, but they still wont reach $32M, why? people are starting to realize how painful would it be to use such a phone.

reasons:
1) you need a docking station on the target location, otherwise you'll have to drag your own screen with you.
2) if you're planning on making a docking station why not just have a desktop or laptop.
3) processor capability is near crap, or in other words you're limited to which softwares you'll be able to fully utilize.
4) it costs an average of $775
5) too much vague specifications and answers.
6) they aren't targeting a much more specific market.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 06:04:18 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline sawakosadako

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #138 on: August 07, 2013, 11:03:06 AM »
reasons:
1) you need a docking station on the target location, otherwise you'll have to drag your own screen with you.
2) if you're planning on making a docking station why not just have a desktop or laptop.
3) processor capability is near crap, or in other words you're limited to which softwares you'll be able to fully utilize.
4) it costs an average of $775
5) too much vague specifications and answers.
6) they aren't targeting a much more specific market.
1) I don't travel a lot so I wouldn't careless about this. But I think for people who travels a lot you could always plug your phone to a screen on a business centre/hotel room.

2) It depends on how the docking station look like though. If it's not slim like a laptop yeah it's better to bring a laptop I guess. But then again when you bring a laptop you still gonna have to bring a charger, which basically like bringing a dock.

3) I don't know much about hardware, but most people who use phone as a desktop thing is probably business people who travels a lot. And the only apps they're going to use is probably just office's apps or use a thin client from their company's server since it's a lot safer. A day-trader probably could also use this in their arsenal.

4) I don't like using a lock device. So personally this wouldn't be a problem for me. But I could see people in the states have a problem with this since a lot of them use a subsidized phone from their carrier. And people in general forget that their phone is worth way a lot more than 200 - 400 dollars.

5) A vague is good for me though. It gives me hope, although it probably just false hope.

6) I don't get what you mean. There's no market, they only build this for the community. Anyway I think they should target this to Android community more though since they're the people who would lose a lot if this fail - Ubuntu community still has its convergence from the Ubuntu Touch but not true for the Android community, due to Android license Canonical will have to abide to what the OEM demands about Ubuntu for Android source code.
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Offline kitamesume

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Re: $32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone
« Reply #139 on: August 07, 2013, 11:36:49 AM »
look at it like this, they're targeting a non existing market between phone and tablet/laptop usage case, its not specific enough to be worth anything.

at $800 you could afford a $600 laptop and a $200 nexus, you get a vastly superior setup for the same price. you don't encounter docking problems on virtually every place you'd go to, be it on top of a mountain or under the sea.
approximately 90% of businessmen do their work at home or on-the-go, during transport to be more specific, on-site they only present data.
how do you think a client react if the businessman asks "do you have a spare monitor with you? i didn't bring one myself", what happens if the client doesn't have one? the meeting is cancelled?

to point out, theres 10" notebooks with decent specs for even heavy-workloads in it, a few of them has started going below $400 as well, with such a competition which do you think businessmen will go with? a phone that risks uselessness on some occasions, or a $400-less investment with higher usability to maximize usage scenarios?
do note that a phone's processor wouldn't be enough to crunch 3D rendering, nor having it do other heavy-workloads, they'll end up having another unit for doing the heavy stuff potentially its $800+$???.
from a businessmen's view, you'd see them wanting less investment with maximum profitability, so which of the two maximizes profitability?

you're deluding yourself to make it look worth it, think about it.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 11:46:28 AM by kitamesume »

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