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$32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone

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Freedom Kira:
You keep deluding yourself with the price, which renders your entire point moot. You can't compare prices of a pure OEM phone against a network-provided phone sold on contract, bundled with all kinds of weird software, and then locked to the network.

There is no smartphone of the Edge's estimated caliber at a price that low (the Nexus 4 is closer to $500), nor is there a smartphone of the same price that even begins to compare in specs.

Whether or not the phone itself will actually be worth the amount they're asking for is a different story, and I don't disagree that it seems like a bit much, but you can't argue the point based on a false price you give to an alternative.

As for that businessman asking for a spare monitor, in the future something like that may very well be as common sense as asking to use someone's computer or laptop today (which in turn would have been absurd a few years ago), if Canonical has the right idea of what the future holds. They're trying to build something that will move technology forward, so stop comparing it with what we do here and now.

sawakosadako:

--- Quote from: kitamesume on August 07, 2013, 11:36:49 AM ---look at it like this, they're targeting a non existing market between phone and tablet/laptop usage case, its not specific enough to be worth anything.

--- End quote ---
Yeah you could say they're trying to create a new market.


--- Quote ---at $800 you could afford a $600 laptop and a $200 nexus, you get a vastly superior setup for the same price. you don't encounter docking problems on virtually every place you'd go to, be it on top of a mountain or under the sea.
approximately 90% of businessmen do their work at home or on-the-go, during transport to be more specific, on-site they only present data.
how do you think a client react if the businessman asks "do you have a spare monitor with you? i didn't bring one myself", what happens if the client doesn't have one? the meeting is cancelled?

--- End quote ---
It's like saying there's no point to have a device with a wi-fi since there's less wi-fi hotspot in the past. This kind of thing will solves by itself if the idea proves to be a good thing.


--- Quote ---to point out, theres 10" notebooks with decent specs for even heavy-workloads in it, a few of them has started going below $400 as well, with such a competition which do you think businessmen will go with? a phone that risks uselessness on some occasions, or a $400-less investment with higher usability to maximize usage scenarios?

--- End quote ---
Ubuntu Touch is not just about the convergence story. It's still a phone. And it's still going to be released no matter what on an OEM device priced most likely less than $800 in the future. While for the edge it's only for the enthusiastic. First of all I wouldn't expect any businessmen would buy this, not unless he's an enthusiastic. But I think they could buy this when Ubuntu Touch is on an OEM device since it's going to be less expensive. (Clarification: respond to number 3 is about Ubuntu Touch [ie, the commercial phone] not Ubuntu Edge, so it kinda conflicts to what I said here.)


--- Quote ---do note that a phone's processor wouldn't be enough to crunch 3D rendering, nor having it do other heavy-workloads, they'll end up having another unit for doing the heavy stuff potentially its $800+$???.

--- End quote ---
Are you talking about 3d real-time rendering or not? If it isn't. Hell I wouldn't even do it on a high-end desktop. I'd rather do it on a farm it's just not worth it.
About real-time rendering, have seen the video I posted above? What do you think about it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJivWTHItjM


--- Quote ---from a businessmen's view, you'd see them wanting less investment with maximum profitability, so which of the two maximizes profitability?
you're deluding yourself to make it look worth it, think about it.

--- End quote ---
I'm not. I'm an environmentalist. I don't just buy device because it's the new thing. But then again maybe I am. Because I still want it to succeed since it would help Ubuntu Touch a lot if they do succeed. And I want Ubuntu Touch to succeed.

Edit:
@Freedom Kira: You're supporting this right? I just found this links. If you got some idea about the campaign, go to the blog and then the reddit thread below.
http://mhall119.com/2013/08/getting-through-the-trough-and-closer-to-the-edge-together/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1jqyas/submit_your_ubuntu_edge_campaign_perk_ideas_here/

kitamesume:

--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on August 07, 2013, 12:09:26 PM ---You keep deluding yourself with the price, which renders your entire point moot. You can't compare prices of a pure OEM phone against a network-provided phone sold on contract, bundled with all kinds of weird software, and then locked to the network.

There is no smartphone of the Edge's estimated caliber at a price that low (the Nexus 4 is closer to $500), nor is there a smartphone of the same price that even begins to compare in specs.

Whether or not the phone itself will actually be worth the amount they're asking for is a different story, and I don't disagree that it seems like a bit much, but you can't argue the point based on a false price you give to an alternative.

--- End quote ---
yeah you're right the nexus 4 was at $400, i dunno why but i had the nexus7's price on my head when i thought of nexus4, weird.
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Google-Nexus-Android-Tablet/dp/B00DB3SH2G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375883738&sr=8-1&keywords=nexus
http://www.amazon.com/LG-Unlocked-International-Version-Warranty/dp/B00ABPKHH0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1375883738&sr=8-5&keywords=nexus


--- Quote from: Freedom Kira on August 07, 2013, 12:09:26 PM ---As for that businessman asking for a spare monitor, in the future something like that may very well be as common sense as asking to use someone's computer or laptop today (which in turn would have been absurd a few years ago), if Canonical has the right idea of what the future holds. They're trying to build something that will move technology forward, so stop comparing it with what we do here and now.

--- End quote ---
how far in the future are we talking about? how about just going with the flow and only start there when things are already available? wouldn't things cost considerably less by then?
its like buying a DDR4 ram now for $800 when it'll take about a year before you can practically use it, by then the same type of ram would've cost half or even less, what did you aim to gain from buying again?
i mean, i doubt starbucks would start having docking stations by 2015, nor do i think most clients would have a docking station too, unless they're considerably rich and their establishment requires them to have it.

considering by next year there should be i5-type convertibles hitting the market at sub $500 prices, even atom silvermont type tablets have an estimated price of sub $200.
so yeah, you won't loose anything if Edge fails, by the time docking stations are a mandatory facility then you could say that dockable phones would be worth a try, but now or next year it isn't.

edit: by Q1-2015 broadwell at 14nm should start to step at the realm of phones, TDPs of haswell already started hitting sub 8watts, broadwell's die-shrink should make it a reality, a high performance phone i mean, then docking phones are practical.
its also conflicting though, by 2014 google-glass would be available throughout the global market, i'd estimate by 2015 there'll be a much more superior product that'll have a much more practical use for such device.



--- Quote from: sawakosadako on August 07, 2013, 12:46:06 PM ---Are you talking about 3d real-time rendering or not? If it isn't. Hell I wouldn't even do it on a high-end desktop. I'd rather do it on a farm it's just not worth it.
About real-time rendering, have seen the video I posted above? What do you think about it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJivWTHItjM

--- End quote ---
either, and well 3d non-realtime rendering depends on how big of a project are you trying to render, regardless of the case its time-bound.
the slowest processor can render it at a snail's phase, i'd imagine it taking a day or more to finish. for a laptop with capable specs, it'd take around a few hours.


--- Quote from: sawakosadako on August 07, 2013, 12:46:06 PM ---I'm not. I'm an environmentalist. I don't just buy device because it's the new thing. But then again maybe I am. Because I still want it to succeed since it would help Ubuntu Touch a lot if they do succeed. And I want Ubuntu Touch to succeed.

--- End quote ---
you don't have to pay anything to get ubuntu touch to succeed, try visiting their forums since you'll see there the communities that're developing ubuntu, ubuntu forums i mean.


edit: speaking of which, Edge's situation is like Gaming Laptop's situation 10years ago.
"why game on a laptop thats 3x more expensive than a desktop"
or simply put, gaming on a laptop wasn't practical at that time.

the laptops were slow, you needed $2K laptops to game at some reasonable settings.
while it takes only a $800 desktop to game at high-max settings.

it took the market 4years to start mitigating the difference in price, $1K laptop about 6years ago were decent enough to play at good settings(GeForce 9800M GS or GeForce 9800M GT).
the demand was there so it aided the progress by quite a lot, but only by around 2010 did the manufacturers took gaming laptops seriously(GeForce GTS 250M to GeForce GTX 280M).


the same thing applies to Edge, hardware have yet to catch up both in terms of price and practicality.
NAND flash is still too expensive to scale up to 128GB at the moment(uSD card of 128GB costs about $150).
RAM density isn't practical yet to squeeze 4GB on such a small phone(they'll need to put four 8Gbit chips in it[highest capacity available at the moment, used on 16GB sticks], that amount of die wont fit in the PCB).
CPU performance and power efficiency isn't enough to push a positive result on such a constricting envelope.
screens aren't developed enough for efficient mass-production of low-cost highquality screens(they only just started doing so).
even so pushing for $800 on a whim isn't practical either, we all agree to this anyway.

Saras:

--- Quote from: kitamesume on August 07, 2013, 06:02:11 AM ---5) too much vague specifications and answers.

--- End quote ---

Oh please, you can't hold that against them. It's not specific, because they don't know what they'll get. If they put down todays hardware, it'd be painfully out of date by the time the system is out. None of the engineers for products like this know the specific details. They know the price and what the system could handle tdp/size...etc wise. They've no idea as to what it is that they're going to get in the end.

Freedom Kira:

--- Quote from: kitamesume on August 07, 2013, 01:09:52 PM ---how far in the future are we talking about? how about just going with the flow and only start there when things are already available? wouldn't things cost considerably less by then?
its like buying a DDR4 ram now for $800 when it'll take about a year before you can practically use it, by then the same type of ram would've cost half or even less, what did you aim to gain from buying again?
i mean, i doubt starbucks would start having docking stations by 2015, nor do i think most clients would have a docking station too, unless they're considerably rich and their establishment requires them to have it.

--- End quote ---

How is anyone supposed to know how far in the future Canonical's vision should happen? It could be anywhere from 1 to 50 years. But they seem to be pushing for earlier rather than later.


--- Quote from: sawakosadako on August 07, 2013, 12:46:06 PM ---Edit:
@Freedom Kira: You're supporting this right? I just found this links. If you got some idea about the campaign, go to the blog and then the reddit thread below.
http://mhall119.com/2013/08/getting-through-the-trough-and-closer-to-the-edge-together/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1jqyas/submit_your_ubuntu_edge_campaign_perk_ideas_here/

--- End quote ---

I am, yeah, since I managed to get an earlier, lighter price. I receive updates from Canonical too because I'm a backer. Here's the latest:


--- Quote ---Bloomberg bets big on the Ubuntu Edge
The record-breaking Ubuntu Edge crowdfunding campaign has its first major corporate backer, Bloomberg LP.

Bloomberg, the financial information, analytics and news leader, pledged $80,000 towards the campaign in exchange for the Enterprise 100 perk, which includes a batch of 100 Ubuntu Edge devices and access to a range of Canonical workshops and technical support bringing Ubuntu for Android into the workplace.

"Bloomberg supports open innovation and initiatives, such as Ubuntu Edge, that align with our software development and business priorities," said Shawn Edwards, Chief Technology Officer at Bloomberg LP. "With this investment, Bloomberg developers will contribute to an open technology initiative that could benefit our clients and have a powerful impact on the future of mobile computing."

"Bloomberg's developers are already designing and building software for advanced devices because our clients demand a seamless experience from the desktop to the mobile platform," said Justin Erenkrantz, Head of Web Architecture, a division of Bloomberg LP's CTO Office. "Ubuntu's goal to offer a single-device solution for enterprise convergence and mobility is an exciting prospect and one that complements our vision for open development on the mobile platform."

The Ubuntu Edge campaign has already exceeded crowdfunding records -- it raised $2 million in the first eight hours -- and support from such a high-profile company is a boost for us and other backers looking to get their hands on the world’s first truly converged computing device.

The Ubuntu Edge will enter production for delivery in May 2014, if $32 million is raised before 11:59pm PT on August 21. It’s available exclusively via Indiegogo, and won’t be available to buy at retail. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge

--- End quote ---

Awfully optimistic, aren't they? Even with that 80K, they've been stuck at the 8M mark for a couple days.

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