$32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone

[xShadow]

Also, why are you comparing it to iOS? A person that didn't like iOS much in the first place wouldn't go for iOS to begin with. You should be comparing it to Android.

But it's an Android phone. It dual boots into Ubuntu Touch, but it still runs Android (which can run Ubuntu through its Android app). Not much point comparing Android to Android, right?

The point is that it's Android+Ubuntu vs just Android. No sane user who would even consider iOS as preferable to Android would consider buying Android+Ubuntu over iOS. You're paying extra for the "+Ubuntu" part of that string, plus some computing power. If it did run off of a processor other than ARM, that would make it a bit more interesting as a phone, because it might be able to handle 10 bit better... but who knows?

its a matter of statistics, if the estimated outcome has high profitability with only a marginal loss if it fails then its highly likely they'd do it.
not to mention its also what the CEO thinks of the project, if the CEO says "go do it" would everything else matter?

I believe a vast majority of the cost in these kind of industries goes into R&D... so if they have already done all of the R&D at this point but haven't thought of a backup plan in case their crowdsourcing doesn't reach that target... that would be kind of stupid.

Then again I've been pretty LAZY about reading any of the actual articles on this.

[mgz]

i feel like this phone would be really cool, however i cant see it reaching its goal with as quickly as phones become out of date which is roughly a 9 month life cycle before the next gen of upgraded processors and small improvements to touch things come in.
for 700$ its just not worth it IMO.

[sawakosadako]

But it's an Android phone. It dual boots into Ubuntu Touch, but it still runs Android (which can run Ubuntu through its Android app). Not much point comparing Android to Android, right?

I thought Kira's answer is enough. Anyway the reason is simple. I don't have Android. I use iOS. I like Android better than iOS. But if you ask me to choose between Android and Ubuntu\FOSS Project. I'd choose the others. Why because I don't trust Google, especially after NSA scandal.

I believe a vast majority of the cost in these kind of industries goes into R&D... so if they have already done all of the R&D at this point but haven't thought of a backup plan in case their crowdsourcing doesn't reach that target... that would be kind of stupid.

Then again I've been pretty LAZY about reading any of the actual articles on this.

From the reddit AMA, Mark said it himself if it doesn't reach the target he won't do anything about it. However if the goal is reached and it turns out it costs more than 32 million, he'll be willing to cover the rest.

[kitamesume]

@kitamusume
Mark Shuttleworth@ Reddit AMA

Q: There were some concerns raised about the specs saying the Edge would have (at least) 4GB of RAM, although currently 2GB is the maximum amount of RAM a device is able to use with an ARM processor.
What are your thoughts about this? Has this been carefully planned ahead, or is it more a find-and-solve-problems-along-the-way kind of project?
A: I've been told by the CTO of a very big mobile silicon manufacturer they could do it.

So ARM can handle more than 2GB? I guess ARM is out of the question then. Any idea on what the manufacturer he's talking about?

BTW, It passed 6 million now.

apparently ARM does support up to 4GB of RAM for the older models, recent 64bit ARM can support as much as what our current processor can.

the problem is mapping them with the OS tends to be quite tedious.
jellybean and ICS just had support for over 2GB due to demand from desktop ARM platforms, older android OS could support it but will have to be recoded from scratch.

[Freedom Kira]

The point is that it's Android+Ubuntu vs just Android. No sane user who would even consider iOS as preferable to Android would consider buying Android+Ubuntu over iOS. You're paying extra for the "+Ubuntu" part of that string, plus some computing power. If it did run off of a processor other than ARM, that would make it a bit more interesting as a phone, because it might be able to handle 10 bit better... but who knows?

Except Ubuntu is free and has always been free. I doubt any extra would be going towards Ubuntu, but rather towards the hardware. Note the specs, and compare to Samsung's GS4, which I think would be somewhat similar to the Edge. Then compare their no-contract prices. What do you notice?
[/quote]

[xShadow]

The point is that it's Android+Ubuntu vs just Android. No sane user who would even consider iOS as preferable to Android would consider buying Android+Ubuntu over iOS. You're paying extra for the "+Ubuntu" part of that string, plus some computing power. If it did run off of a processor other than ARM, that would make it a bit more interesting as a phone, because it might be able to handle 10 bit better... but who knows?

Except Ubuntu is free and has always been free. I doubt any extra would be going towards Ubuntu, but rather towards the hardware. Note the specs, and compare to Samsung's GS4, which I think would be somewhat similar to the Edge. Then compare their no-contract prices. What do you notice?

I believe someone had a relative price breakdown a page or two back (though I believe that phone was even more expensive than the GS4, although I wouldn't know for sure), go ahead and look at it.  Also, Ubuntu being free is true, but that doesn't not equate to what they're selling (Android+Ubuntu on a phone). Go ahead and figure out the numbers.

As for better specs... honestly I was more than satisfied with the 2GB of ram and the processor on my GS3. Both were more than enough. Most of the limits I was encountering were software/architecture related... throwing more gigs of ram or cores (of the same speed anyway) is especially pointless, considering Ubuntu can be fairly lightweight to begin with (well granted I work on a console interface Ubuntu). Plus, IIRC the screen is 720p... you're not gonna play 1080p on there anyway, even if it's able to. That's a bit silly. Plus, if they go towards more cores instead of faster ones, it depends on how well the parallel processing capability is taken advantage of.

Oh and did I mention the battery? Good god I hope this thing has an insane one, because it dual boots Ubuntu AND Android. Android by itself was a nightmare for me to contain. I had to root it and then weed out all battery-killing apps and bloatware and change the kernel to use LESS OF THE CPU, SINCE IT WASN'T EVEN NEEDED MOST OF THE TIME.


Point is unless you're actually going to use this thing to replace a laptop (which I wouldn't; aside from wanting Windows, my laptops have to be able to play video games... not Angry Birds or whatever the fuck it is people do on there), it's pretty pointless. I think you'd be better of splitting the money on a slightly worse phone and a good netbook/laptop (the latter of which you won't have enough money for, but it'll be a start). Perhaps it would be a good portable dev station, since you can put do SSL through it and code perl/php whatnot on it without much issue... supposing you can access your company's private network from somewhere. Eh. Don't see much point for it beyond that. It doesn't have the specs for even the Steam games that are on Linux.



Okay I think I've made it clear I see no use for this myself, that's just two my two cents (spread across 4 posts...).

[zherok]

Given it's a primarily Linux phone, and lacks a traditional carrier set-up, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume a fairly close to stock Android configuration for it?

Plus, IIRC the screen is 720p... you're not gonna play 1080p on there anyway, even if it's able to.

I think the point there would be to use the unit as a portable media player, not to watch 1080p video off a four and a half inch screen. Still likely not powerful enough to do it in 10-bit either way though.

[kitamesume]

Point is unless you're actually going to use this thing to replace a laptop (which I wouldn't; aside from wanting Windows, my laptops have to be able to play video games... not Angry Birds or whatever the fuck it is people do on there), it's pretty pointless. I think you'd be better of splitting the money on a slightly worse phone and a good netbook/laptop (the latter of which you won't have enough money for, but it'll be a start). Perhaps it would be a good portable dev station, since you can put do SSL through it and code perl/php whatnot on it without much issue... supposing you can access your company's private network from somewhere. Eh. Don't see much point for it beyond that. It doesn't have the specs for even the Steam games that are on Linux.



Okay I think I've made it clear I see no use for this myself, that's just two my two cents (spread across 4 posts...).

yeah splitting the load is more cost effective, but you sacrifice convenience while doing so.
plus at $600~$800 you can actually get a decent laptop, one with an intel i5 and a low tier GPU (GT620m~GT645m), branded to boot e.g. Asus, MSI or Dell.

a $200~$300 mostly-call-text phone with a few bonus features, plus an $600~$800 8" tablet with beefy dualcore Haswell CPU in it.

Plus, IIRC the screen is 720p... you're not gonna play 1080p on there anyway, even if it's able to.

I think the point there would be to use the unit as a portable media player, not to watch 1080p video off a four and a half inch screen. Still likely not powerful enough to do it in 10-bit either way though.

the high density screen's main worth is it's ability to create much sharper images and texts, try reading manga in it, 1080P 5.0" is much more readable than 720P 4.5" even without zooming in.

[zherok]

the high density screen's main worth is it's ability to create much sharper images and texts, try reading manga in it, 1080P 5.0" is much more readable than 720P 4.5" even without zooming in.

I meant connecting it to a larger screen, one with a higher resolution than the phone itself had. PMP was probably not the right phrase to get that across.

Also I'd be disappointed if a half inch larger phone weren't easier to read from. But that's also the size range where smartphones get exceptionally unwieldy.

[sawakosadako]

Q: One of the big unanswered questions about this device is the architecture being used. Intel's new bay trail looks really great in performance and power saving as well as allowing easy compatibility with Ubuntu software center purchases. Arm processors might be easier/cheaper to come by as well as friendlier to the mobile side of this device. Arm, though, will require lots of work on canonical's side to make the full desktop side software supported by third parties. I personally think Intel's processor should be the one used, but if architecture isn't decided yet, what items are making the decision process difficult?

A: We are waiting for two things - final specs and benchmarks, and a community of backers to help make that decision.

@kitamusume: Is bay trail the processors that you told me before? If it is, looks like they're considering it.

[Bob2004]

How many people here have actually read the Kickstarter pitch? All this discussion about backup plans, carrier support, etc is irrelevant. This isn't a Kickstarter for Ubuntu's mobile OS - that's coming regardless of the result of this, on phones manufactured by other companies (much like Android by the sounds of things). This Kickstarter is purely for this one prototype proof-of-concept phone they're putting together running Ubuntu OS. It's intended as a one-off limited edition thing - if you don't buy it during this funding period, then there will never be an opportunity to get another one again.

Whether or not it's worth the price, I can't say. I don't think anyone can until the final specs are confirmed and we've actually seen it in action. But a large part of the draw is the one-off limited edition nature of it, so being slightly more expensive than an equivalent Samsung, HTC, etc is to be expected.

[kitamesume]

yeah, baytrail-T
theres a few tiers of baytrail. baytrail-T (tablet), baytrail-M (notebook), and baytrail-D (desktop).
the atom silvermont of phones though is merrifield, in due date till 2014.

as for baytrail vs arm - http://www.extremetech.com/computing/160320-intel-bay-trail-benchmark-appears-online-crushes-fastest-snapdragon-arm-soc-by-30

PS: Silvermont is the architecture name, baytrail is like a code name similar to i3, i5, i7.

Whether or not it's worth the price, I can't say. I don't think anyone can until the final specs are confirmed and we've actually seen it in action. But a large part of the draw is the one-off limited edition nature of it, so being slightly more expensive than an equivalent Samsung, HTC, etc is to be expected.

twice as expensive to be exact, for it's worth in comparison to flagship phones. lets not talk about nexus phones as everything looks stupidly expensive when anything is compared to it.

i dunno why they're trying to charge such a premium though(more than 60% profit, really now).
they don't even need that much R&D for ubuntu OS since everything is practically done already, nor do they need to develop hardware from scratch since all they need is to assemble them.
my guess is that they're abusing the project to jumpstart their production line without investing themselves.

[Freedom Kira]

twice as expensive to be exact, for it's worth in comparison to flagship phones. lets not talk about nexus phones as everything looks stupidly expensive when anything is compared to it.

i dunno why they're trying to charge such a premium though(more than 60% profit, really now).
they don't even need that much R&D for ubuntu OS since everything is practically done already, nor do they need to develop hardware from scratch since all they need is to assemble them.
my guess is that they're abusing the project to jumpstart their production line without investing themselves.

Except the lowest tier Edge is comparable in price to the Galaxy S4, while aiming for superior specs.

And you do know that Ubuntu is completely free, right? Where else would they get the money? In order to "invest themselves" they need some amount of money to start with.

[sawakosadako]

@kitamusume: Yeah,  it's a possibility.  But let's not jump into conclusion without the final specs is available. Besides I don't think comparing price to other major device is wise.  I always think that major device are subsidized/cross-subsidized in one way or another.  Also even if they aren't subsidized comparing ubuntu edge to their price is still foolish.  You just can't compare a device with a quantity of only 40k with a device that has millions in production. Quantity effect production costs. Actually this is one of the reason why they choose this goal it's to lower the price.

[kitamesume]

twice as expensive to be exact, for it's worth in comparison to flagship phones. lets not talk about nexus phones as everything looks stupidly expensive when anything is compared to it.

i dunno why they're trying to charge such a premium though(more than 60% profit, really now).
they don't even need that much R&D for ubuntu OS since everything is practically done already, nor do they need to develop hardware from scratch since all they need is to assemble them.
my guess is that they're abusing the project to jumpstart their production line without investing themselves.

Except the lowest tier Edge is comparable in price to the Galaxy S4, while aiming for superior specs.

And you do know that Ubuntu is completely free, right? Where else would they get the money? In order to "invest themselves" they need some amount of money to start with.

where are you getting at? what you're saying is totally contradictory.

[Freedom Kira]

How is anything I said contradictory?

The lowest tier Edge (check the funding page again) is roughly the same price as the S4, but they are aiming for far better specs than the S4.

And Ubuntu is free. It's always been free. Because it's free, Canonical has no capital to fund this project, and no capital they can use to "invest themselves."

[kitamesume]

How is anything I said contradictory?

The lowest tier Edge (check the funding page again) is roughly the same price as the S4, but they are aiming for far better specs than the S4.

And Ubuntu is free. It's always been free. Because it's free, Canonical has no capital to fund this project, and no capital they can use to "invest themselves."

its contradictory as to say "i need $32M for a free proof-of-concept", ubuntu is free and all they're trying to do is do a proof-of-concept, not to mention they're trying to make a profit.

look at it like this, if they're only trying to test the unit out, why do they even have to overcharge for each unit? just because its a limited edition?


aside from ram amount and storage amount, what specs do you even see thats far superior than S4, i'm blind so i don't see them.

edit: ohh and for the record, why are we even comparing it to an old model thats soon to be superseded? Edge eta is may 2014, G-S5 would be out by then.

It runs a powerful Exynos 5 Octa processor from Samsung and uses 4GB of RAM to help power the device. It also features a 16MP camera with Xenon flash, a 5MP front-facing camera for improved video chats, a large 3,200 mAh battery, and Google’s Android 5.0 Key Lime Pie which should debut later on this year.

tl;dr - current paper specs is worth nothing over it's price, even at $600.

[zherok]

The OS is the proof-of-concept, and it's happening regardless of whether the phone crowd funding goes through.

[kitamesume]

The OS is the proof-of-concept, and it's happening regardless of whether the phone crowd funding goes through.

i can see it happening, you could even just root your existing android phone and boot ubuntu in it.

what i dont see being practical is paper specs over price, while being just a proof-of-concept do they even have to tag it a massive premium? $600 barely makes it doable, $800...

[zherok]

The cost may be higher due to the limited run. A comparably-priced phone wouldn't be aiming at a mere 40,000 units.