$32 million Crowd Funding for Android/Ubuntu phone

[kitamesume]

no, limited edition phones with the same price-point would have a more massive specs than Edge on top of limited production runs. look at Nvidia Titan as an example.

if we look at Nexus4, which has marginal profits (10%~20%) just to cover ROI and replacement units, their $399 is comparable to Edge minus 2GB ram and 112GB storage, this means chasing after Edge's paper specs would only hit an approximate of $550 (+$100 for 112GB more storage, +$30 for 2GB more ram, +$20 for other features ).

[zherok]

The Nexus4 has sold 25 times more units than the run they're planning with the Edge though. Not remotely as limited a unit.

[kitamesume]

i was explaining their profit margins were acceptable while having comparable specs to Edge, even if it were a limited edition phone i doubt having 70% of the price as pure premium is even acceptable.

also, Nexus4 did have a batch run comparable to Edge, if they limited it to only two batches then it would've been the same as Edge. you're looking at a phone from 2012 to boot.

[zherok]

The limited Nexus batch wasn't the end of the run though.

There's the possibility they're rolling R&D costs into the price of the phone too. And for a limited run you're never getting that investment back any other way but through the phone.

In any case I doubt it'll matter whether the thing's legitimately priced or not. There's almost certainly not 40,000 units worth of interest in it. It's a niche appeal to begin with, and whether greed, incompetence, or some other issue has the price as high as it is it's pretty unlikely to hit the goal at this rate.

[kitamesume]

demand broke in too much so it got continued even though the limited batch was already over.

R&D cost of what? ubuntu? the phone? are they even developing hardware?
google nexus's R&D is through android development, most R&D of other manufacturers were on ARM cortex research and design.
not to mention most of the manufacturers are developing their own set of features and perks, Sony = bravia engine and water-proofing, samsung = exynos, LG = low-cost screens.

i dont see anything they'd even be pouring R&D on, other than developing the phone's design and structure, which isn't even worth 50%~70% of premium.

thats why i've been saying it isn't worth much at it's target premium.


one last time, my hypotesis of why they're charging such a premium is to jumpstart their own fabrication line.
e.g. they're trying to build their own factory from scratch without investing their own pocket money.
then the $32M makes sense, no?

[zherok]

Maybe, but consider that if doesn't hit 32M they don't make the phone at all. I think until they actually put final specs you're kinda speculating a lot on the actual hardware costs.

edit: I'm perfectly willing to consider that they're being exceptionally broad about their hardware costs. From the AMA it kinda feels like building a computer from a high end site, where you just drag down till you get the most expensive components because hey they must be better. The "pure sapphire crystal" they're using for display is probably not cheap, but an AMA question was whether hardness mattered as much as flexibility. No one stabs their phone. And the response was pretty much, "we'll see how it works out in drop tests." It's one of the few specific details so far and they're not sure how it performs yet!

[kitamesume]

regarding the sapphire screen, its too rigid for it's purpose. if their target is to mitigate scratches then it may work, but the problem isn't just scratches but more on drops.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57581976-85/sapphire-phone-screens-not-as-strong-as-you-think-says-corning/

on the other hand gorilla glass is manufacturing a stiff but flexible sort of glass which has a high resistance to scratches, it doesn't shatter upon impact as well.
if they were serious on developing the most effective screen though, it would be something of a very thin film (thinner than a hair) bonded onto gorilla glass as an entire structure, best of both worlds.

they're assuming they'll make things right thats worth at least $830, if it was that easy someone would've made a flagship worthy of that premium.
but no one is targeting such space since cost efficiency already became null due to competing hardware on that price bracket, like tablets as an example.
price brackets are there for a reason, they're over-stepping the boundaries thats making things more complicated.
if they were so sure of the $830 price point it should be a beast that can compete against things of the same price bracket.

[zherok]

They're not phone guys, and the AMA sounded a lot like a wish-list sorta approach. In a way I'm reminded of Double Fine's adventure Kickstarter. They're both heavily focused on some vague concept rather than a strict idea of what it's going to end up like.

As for the test, Gorilla Glass has been fairly well proven as a technology, but I'm not sure it's creators are necessarily the most objective source for data against competing technologies. What kind of real life scenario does applying a huge circular pressure onto the face of the screen model?

In any case I doubt it's worth the current market premium. And given the possibility that it might not prove to be a worthwhile technology, this premium or bust mentality might help ensure the phone never gets made.

[kitamesume]

What kind of real life scenario does applying a huge circular pressure onto the face of the screen model?

its a stress-test to test compressive strength of the glass, meaning its a simulation of how much the glass can withstand before breaking, or in worldly scenarios something like dropping it or having something dropped onto it.
impact force is also multiplied by speed, which means a drop's impact force can exceed hundreds of pounds.

edit: why they didn't do a weight-drop test is one of the question, maybe its to show-case pressure limits.

[zherok]

That's not an impact test though, but steady mounting pressure.

I'm not advocating the technology in any case.

edit: why they didn't do a weight-drop test is one of the question, maybe its to show-case pressure limits.

Could simply have been because their test of choice would allow not having to show their unit breaking. A realistic drop test would likely have been a more subjective matter of which of the two broke less (even if it favors their product, it would still likely break.)

[rugerp89]

I think the ubuntu phone is going to change the way we look at phones motorola try to make a dock-able phone that turns into a computer but if the ubuntu phone is running a complete linux system i think ill out perform droid or apple.

[sawakosadako]

As far as I know, Vertu is the only one that use saphire on its phone. Anyone has one? Wanna drop it to test it out?

[mgz]

no, limited edition phones with the same price-point would have a more massive specs than Edge on top of limited production runs. look at Nvidia Titan as an example.

if we look at Nexus4, which has marginal profits (10%~20%) just to cover ROI and replacement units, their $399 is comparable to Edge minus 2GB ram and 112GB storage, this means chasing after Edge's paper specs would only hit an approximate of $550 (+$100 for 112GB more storage, +$30 for 2GB more ram, +$20 for other features ).

you are also talking about large conglomerates that are making these special edition phones where most of the parts are the same as another phone being made with a slight change. The design cost and shit and having contacts and production contracts setup with companies with the capital to buy 1 million units up front knowing you will see 10x as many in the first 6months or so.

They are pitching to get paid for the time they took working with the OS and researching and designing a nice phone with cool functionality. The price is roughly the same as other premium phones when bought outside of a contract.

Other big downsides, this phone is not insurable, if it breaks your out of 700$ and cant pay 100$ to get a new one. If shit is wonky and not working right you wont get your phone swapped for something in hopes it will fix it. If software is acting strange you can complain and hope they try and fix it.

Like i said before this kind of stuff i feel like is wasteful as a whole, with the advancing pace of tech in the cellphone field its truly a waste to spend 700$ on a phone like this when by nature everything will be on par with specs or better within a year. And you likely can replicate its software things through fiddling and knowledge

[sawakosadako]

Other big downsides, this phone is not insurable, if it breaks your out of 700$ and cant pay 100$ to get a new one. If shit is wonky and not working right you wont get your phone swapped for something in hopes it will fix it. If software is acting strange you can complain and hope they try and fix it.

What warranties apply to the Ubuntu Edge?

A standard manufacturer warranty will apply. If you are not happy with the product, you may return it within 28 days of receiving it for a full refund. Please note, Canonical can not cover the cost of the return postage and packaging.

Well at least you can still return it if you don't like it and get a full refund.

[mgz]

Other big downsides, this phone is not insurable, if it breaks your out of 700$ and cant pay 100$ to get a new one. If shit is wonky and not working right you wont get your phone swapped for something in hopes it will fix it. If software is acting strange you can complain and hope they try and fix it.

What warranties apply to the Ubuntu Edge?

A standard manufacturer warranty will apply. If you are not happy with the product, you may return it within 28 days of receiving it for a full refund. Please note, Canonical can not cover the cost of the return postage and packaging.

Well at least you can still return it if you don't like it and get a full refund.

its usually around 3-4 months of having a phone that i start to get weird shit happening when it does. Ive never had to return a phone in the first month

[sawakosadako]

Found this this virtual ubuntu edge.
http://sketchfab.com/show/c1d2b84d880741b189577ef5698112b0

[xShadow]

Hey, look! It looks pretty much just like every other touch screen phone out there!

What I'm more surprised about is that we have a site that allows you to put models up on there like that now. Never seen that site. The PS4 one is interesting.

I think the ubuntu phone is going to change the way we look at phones motorola try to make a dock-able phone that turns into a computer but if the ubuntu phone is running a complete linux system i think ill out perform droid or apple.

One thing I just realized when you said that is this: there's no way in hell that thing can be a replacement for a tablet or laptop. Why? Because you would have to lug around a fucking monitor, keyboard, and mouse to use it like one, or you'd have to be sure there is a monitor at your target destination every time. Everywhere else it's just a small phone screen that also has another OS on it that you probably can't use half the features of properly. I don't think it's gonna change how we look at mobiles, but I do think it's going to make us understand that trying to put a full OS into a phone doesn't really work.

[kitamesume]

you're forgetting that ARM processor is still like half of what atom processor for laptop is, if you already find an atom to be slow as fuck, i wonder what would you say about an ARM thats even slower?

[Freedom Kira]

I don't get your obsession with ARM. Nowhere is it mentioned that the phone will use an ARM processor.

[sawakosadako]

What I'm more surprised about is that we have a site that allows you to put models up on there like that now. Never seen that site. The PS4 one is interesting.

Same here I just found about this.