Author Topic: Anime generations?  (Read 1304 times)

Offline Osmo

  • Member
  • Posts: 988
Anime generations?
« on: September 26, 2013, 12:16:01 PM »
When I look at anime from the 90's and early 2000, it seemed alot more adult in its themes and concepts, as well as the animators themselves in the way they the characters were drawn (skinny stick figures atm) and the directions they wanted to take the anime, the generally quality was alot better, with alot more thought put into it.

Nowadays all I see are these shitty kids programs, almost all anime I see when I try to find something good to watch is geared towards kids, main characters are usually boy becomes teenager or just full of pubescent girls, constantly being churned out lacking real art just standard repetitive drawing styles.

Anime's from the past that I base this on are generally...; gundam wing, berserk, ninja scroll, cowboy bebop, ghost in the shell, evangelion, akira, perfect blue, dragon ballz, grave of the fire flies...etc

Don't get me wrong there are still some cool anime out there, it's just hard to find with this plethora of garbage aimed at kids. I mean there are anime out there nowadays that have adult themes yet the main characters are still kids...with annoying teen problems.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 12:20:33 PM by Osmo »
You think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted it.
I was born in it, built in it.
I didn't see the light until I was a man, by then, it was nothing but blinding.
The shadows betray you because they belong to me. - Bane

Offline AceHigh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12840
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 12:36:42 PM »
It's geared towards whatever market pays off most. This shows us that the vast majority of the market in Japan are sexually frustrated Beta basement dwellers who revel on some shitty harem fantasy.

Also is this the right section for this thread?
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline logos

  • Member
  • Posts: 919
  • Steel is my body, and fire is my blood
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 01:29:14 PM »
pro troll thread


Offline AceHigh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12840
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 02:19:47 PM »
Shhh!!
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline VicViper573

  • Member
  • Posts: 648
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 03:39:35 PM »
It's geared towards whatever market pays off most. This shows us that the vast majority of the market in Japan are sexually frustrated Beta basement dwellers who revel on some shitty harem fantasy....

It makes you wonder whether anyone in Japan notices this growing problem in their society, especially the ones with the moe-themed body pillows.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 03:41:49 PM by VicViper573 »

Offline Tatsujin

  • Box Fansubs
  • Member
  • Posts: 15632
    • Otakixus
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 04:17:44 PM »
When I look at anime from the 90's and early 2000, it seemed alot more adult in its themes and concepts, as well as the animators themselves in the way they the characters were drawn (skinny stick figures atm) and the directions they wanted to take the anime, the generally quality was alot better, with alot more thought put into it.

Nowadays all I see are these shitty kids programs, almost all anime I see when I try to find something good to watch is geared towards kids, main characters are usually boy becomes teenager or just full of pubescent girls, constantly being churned out lacking real art just standard repetitive drawing styles.

Anime's from the past that I base this on are generally...; gundam wing, berserk, ninja scroll, cowboy bebop, ghost in the shell, evangelion, akira, perfect blue, dragon ballz, grave of the fire flies...etc

Don't get me wrong there are still some cool anime out there, it's just hard to find with this plethora of garbage aimed at kids. I mean there are anime out there nowadays that have adult themes yet the main characters are still kids...with annoying teen problems.
I got you wrong there. I have no fucking idea what you've been watching but you need to expand your choices. There is a good reasonable amount of stuff aimed towards teens, young adults and mature. Also, old stuff is old - you can compare the characters and the stories, but the music and graphics can't be compared. I really like the generations since 2009. They have been doing a hell of a better job on story telling and developing unique characters.


¸¸,.-~*'¨¨¨™¤¦ Otakixus ¦¤™¨¨¨'*~-.,¸¸

Offline jaybug

  • Member
  • Posts: 5627
  • Go Ducks!
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 05:54:04 PM »
Osmo is more or less onto something here. It's a similar pattern that all consumer markets of entertainment experience. As an example, CBS (Central Broadcasting System) of the US had many shows that were primarily aimed at elevating the consumer's cultural awareness. They had what you might call very high-brow shows. The writing, acting, and dramas were all of the highest caliber attainable. But eventually CBS learned that if they wanted to keep in business, they had to appeal to the low-brow masses the other networks had been doing. So after many long years in the depths of Nielsen rankings, which determine the prices networks could charge advertisers, CBS changed. It went from "Kukla, Fran and Ollie" to "Scooby-Doo". Which coincidentally first aired the same year as Sesame Street on PBS. The high brow cultural television has now been relegated to the public broadcasting, where Nielsen ratings do not affect which shows get aired, and remain on air; because advertising rates do not affect their funding as it does the other networks.

Luckily in Japan they do thing a little differently than in the US. There, instead of catering solely to the market, which would only produce shounen and ecchi shows, they have a way other than having a public broadcasting system show all the equally alienating high brow shows that would not increase anime viewership, but would show a generally higher quality of anime. There is NoitaminA, a tool to garner female viewership, without completely alienating the predominant male audience.

As long as there continues to be a strong demand for better shows, the anime creators will not throw up their hands and give us only insipid, vapid, vacuous, inane, banal, vulgar, and idiotic material that appeals only to the lowest common denominator audience which is what passes for a market in the US. Aside from my spending my evenings working, why do you think I watch anime instead of Prime Time TV?

Even Naruto has better lessons for young boys and girls than any US program that airs concurrently that I can think of. That show has a lot more in common with  "Fat Albert" than it does with whatever mindless drivel is spewed on the air today.
Timing is everything in comedy!

Offline Bob2004

  • Member
  • Posts: 2562
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 06:09:16 PM »
There were just as many crap shows in the nineties as there are now. All that's happened is they've mostly been forgotten - because they were crap - and all people remember, and care about, now are the classics. The more recent you go, the more people remember more of the shows that aired, and thus the more crap shows are remembered - thus making it feel like there are more crap shows now than there used to be.

In practice, the number of great shows being released each year is basically the same as it always has been.

Offline VicViper573

  • Member
  • Posts: 648
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 06:20:19 PM »
There were just as many crap shows in the nineties as there are now. All that's happened is they've mostly been forgotten - because they were crap - and all people remember, and care about, now are the classics. The more recent you go, the more people remember more of the shows that aired, and thus the more crap shows are remembered - thus making it feel like there are more crap shows now than there used to be.

In practice, the number of great shows being released each year is basically the same as it always has been.

I suppose that will be the fate of all Generic Moe Animes with young girls in them?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 06:23:42 PM by VicViper573 »

Offline Ozzaharwood

  • Member
  • Posts: 1490
  • Eater of children's souls
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 06:45:34 PM »
There were just as many crap shows in the nineties as there are now. All that's happened is they've mostly been forgotten - because they were crap - and all people remember, and care about, now are the classics. The more recent you go, the more people remember more of the shows that aired, and thus the more crap shows are remembered - thus making it feel like there are more crap shows now than there used to be.

In practice, the number of great shows being released each year is basically the same as it always has been.

I suppose that will be the fate of all Generic Moe Animes with young girls in them?

Bob is definitely on to something here. There are just as many "good" anime being released now then there were in the 90's. Look at Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica, Seirei no Moribito, Steins;Gate, Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood. You can't remember any of the crap anime from the 90's just because of that, they are crap.

It just "seems" as if anime is crap now because it's more popular than it's ever been, and so the production rates have gone up. Because of that, there are more anime being released per season, and it's a lot easier to just claim that everything is crap, rather than sorting out the good from the bad.

The generic moe anime will most likely be forgotten, but there will definitely be some that will be remembered as the best of this time, such as Madoka Magica. At least that's what I think.

Offline Zalis116

  • Box Fansubs
  • Member
  • Posts: 4297
    • ReDone-Subs Founder & Sole Member
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2013, 12:39:48 AM »
Quote
Anime from the past that I base this on are generally...; gundam wing, berserk, ninja scroll, cowboy bebop, ghost in the shell, evangelion, akira, perfect blue, dragon ballz, grave of the fire flies...etc

Yet the two bolded shows were aimed at kids, meant to sell toys, models, and manga.

And while I wouldn't say it the same way, AceHigh has the right general idea -- most of these shows are aimed at 18-35-year-old otaku who can afford 8900-yen Blu-Rays.


Got any old fansubs on HDD/DVD/CD? Please take a look at this thread.

Online Zel47

  • Member
  • Posts: 96
  • 水に流す
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2013, 01:02:21 AM »
When I look at anime from the 90's and early 2000, it seemed alot more adult in its themes and concepts, as well as the animators themselves in the way they the characters were drawn (skinny stick figures atm) and the directions they wanted to take the anime, the generally quality was alot better, with alot more thought put into it.

Nowadays all I see are these shitty kids programs, almost all anime I see when I try to find something good to watch is geared towards kids, main characters are usually boy becomes teenager or just full of pubescent girls, constantly being churned out lacking real art just standard repetitive drawing styles.

Anime's from the past that I base this on are generally...; gundam wing, berserk, ninja scroll, cowboy bebop, ghost in the shell, evangelion, akira, perfect blue, dragon ballz, grave of the fire flies...etc

Don't get me wrong there are still some cool anime out there, it's just hard to find with this plethora of garbage aimed at kids. I mean there are anime out there nowadays that have adult themes yet the main characters are still kids...with annoying teen problems.

There was plenty of terrible anime back in the 90's, it's just that only the good stuff got subbed/dubbed or aired on cartoon network. Plus there was just less anime produced in general. I would guess we get about the same ratio of high quality to chaff anime as we always have, possibly slightly worse since a lot of iffy shows are green-lit now to meet the industries demands. More anime broadcast = more chances to make money. Even if the quality of some of them is a bit dubious. This is why almost everyone has moved away from 24 episode seasons, they can just air 12 episodes of twice as many shows, then order additional seasons accordingly based on profit.

All that being said, I do have a stronger attachment to a lot of the shows referenced in the above, but that is likely because of the age at which I watched them and the nostalgia they invoke- not due to a lack of quality today. Even then some anime I used to really enjoy in the 90's/early 00's is almost unwatchable now, with way more interesting things being done in the same genre, and in MUCH prettier fashion.

It's also funny that the anime you listed is mostly action packed shounen, while most of the "teen problems"/ecchi/rom-com/etc anime you refer to as "aimed at kids" is actually seinen. xD

*edit* All my main points ninja'd by Zalis, in one tenth as many words. =P
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 01:04:19 AM by Zel47 »



Offline Fool010

  • Member
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »
Art always gets worse when the general population becomes involved.

Bullshit, art has always been about entertainment. 'Higher art' is merely aimed at some snobbish 'elite'. Either everything is art, or nothing is. Aesthetics, or you liking some of it is irrelevant to the matter.

About the topic at hand, when looking back there's an obvious bias. You'll be only watching the 'best' shows, leaving out all the crap that's been made at the time. There was just as much crap in the 90s as now, main difference is stuff has gotten much easier to get. There's also a tendency to believe there has been a lost golden age in the past for any form of entertainment, and anime is no different.
Besides, mentionning any Gundam iteration or Dragon Ball for being above the cut just makes me cringe. If anything has ever been scraping the bottom of the barrel it definitely is Dragon Ball, no matter how influential that crap managed to become. One thing Osmo's clearly missing is, anime is essentially aimed at kids, or more precisely at teenagers. There is seinen or josei stuff around, but it isn't -and never was- the main focus.
Cherrypicking is nice, but when trying to discuss things seriously, one has to stay objective.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 11:28:38 AM by Fool010 »
There's no one in the world I'm interested in surpassing, excepted for myself.

MAL               last.fm


Offline Volusus

  • Member
  • Posts: 295
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2013, 11:46:49 AM »


Art is never about entertainment. I have no idea how you could think something like art, which is to do with essence of the most vertical and spiritual, has anything to do with something as subjective and mudane as 'entertainment.' The genius of someone like Debussy is not predicated on how well he is subjectively liked.

Schuon said it best when he claimed that modern art is forever lost because it is disconnected from the objective qualities of forms, colours and dispositions of the material used to create such art. It is aimed at the material, to represent the material, instead of looking toward the spiritual, the Divine, the Logos.

Online JoonasTo

  • Member
  • Posts: 5939
  • Upholding traditional values
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2013, 11:52:15 AM »
I got you wrong there. I have no fucking idea what you've been watching but you need to expand your choices. There is a good reasonable amount of stuff aimed towards teens, young adults and mature. Also, old stuff is old - you can compare the characters and the stories, but the music and graphics can't be compared. I really like the generations since 2009. They have been doing a hell of a better job on story telling and developing unique characters.[
WHAT?

Because we can!

Offline AceHigh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12840
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2013, 12:26:47 PM »
Art always gets worse when the general population becomes involved.

Yes, because the art in renaissance was so much worse than in the dark ages. You know, that age triggered by the societal change to commerce, liberty and diminished cultural monopoly among nobility and church.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Fool010

  • Member
  • Posts: 1133
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2013, 01:23:24 PM »


Art is never about entertainment. I have no idea how you could think something like art, which is to do with essence of the most vertical and spiritual, has anything to do with something as subjective and mudane as 'entertainment.' The genius of someone like Debussy is not predicated on how well he is subjectively liked.

Schuon said it best when he claimed that modern art is forever lost because it is disconnected from the objective qualities of forms, colours and dispositions of the material used to create such art. It is aimed at the material, to represent the material, instead of looking toward the spiritual, the Divine, the Logos.

Art gives substance to inanity at best, all those nice words and concepts thrown around when talking about it are merely a smokescreen to make it seem headier and important. Art has the ability to elicit emotion which is already enough, imbuing it with mystic virtues is nonsense. One should not give too much value to philosopher's speak, as they're masters in cloud sculpting, abstraction and disconnection  being common amongst them.
Your quote is about some guy who sees only the aesthetics of art, therefore completely missing the purpose. Trying to salvage an incomplete view with a nice wrapping of fancy words doesn't cut it. I would've have bought it a couple of years ago when I still gave credit to 'great thinkers', with time passing I started to see them for what they really are : posers in love with their own greatness and eloquency, on a crusade to bring enlightenment to the inferior masses because ... well, gives their ego a boost.

It's quite funny you mention Debussy, as he's been blasted by the guardians of the Holy Grail of Artistic Integrity in his lifetime for not adhering to the ruleset of traditional euphony.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 10:06:40 PM by Fool010 »
There's no one in the world I'm interested in surpassing, excepted for myself.

MAL               last.fm

Offline Osmo

  • Member
  • Posts: 988
Re: Anime generations?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 12:59:57 AM »
It's geared towards whatever market pays off most. This shows us that the vast majority of the market in Japan are sexually frustrated Beta basement dwellers who revel on some shitty harem fantasy.


Pretty much, sex will always sell. Even now I still pick up an old anime and I'm loving it. ecchi shows aimed at teenagers, with the main male lead being a masturbating virgin is all i see.
You think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted it.
I was born in it, built in it.
I didn't see the light until I was a man, by then, it was nothing but blinding.
The shadows betray you because they belong to me. - Bane