New PC - Xeon or Opteron?

[kitamesume]

how about splitting the workload then? soundcard + recorder, its not like $160+$40 or so is any more expensive than the other $200 cards.

[Pentium100]

A separate digital recorder (though IIRC they are more expensive than $40)? Yea, if I need high quality, I can record to my MD recorder (in uncompressed PCM mode of course) and then transfer to PC, the only limit here is the ~30min length limit if I record to standard MD (in Hi-MD mode) and Hi-MD disks are expensive. However, what I also like it listening to music while playing a game (if the game has no background music or I do not like the in-game music).
If you are talking about a USB audio input device, then the problem becomes that USB has a lot of latency (not good if I want to record video).

[Pentium100]

The members of another forum (audio related) suggested I buy a ESI Juli@ XTe card - it costs a bit more than Creative ZxR, but they say it is much higher quality. Well, when the time comes to choose (not this month) hopefully I will choose wisely

[kitamesume]

the design is quite, umm, unique. and the color theme is sooo cute.
is there a technical review on it though? because their paperspecs seems to be a bit on the disappointing side, specially when its over $200.
on a side note, why did they use a VIA envy24HT...

[Pentium100]

They said the main thing of the "pro" sound cards is the fact that they do not use sample rate conversion and sync to the input instead (with optional SRC done in software in case two source with different sample rates are playing). However, it looks like the ZxR also can do it (Stereo Direct mode, though whether it is only for 192kHz sample rate I do not know). My current X-Fi can be switched to any sample rate.

As for the VIA chip - as I understand the Juli@ is an old design - for the PCi-e version they just added PCI-e to PCI bridge.

[Pentium100]

OK, I now have all the parts, will build the PC during the long weekend (11-01 is a day off here).

CPU: 2x AMD Opteron 4238 (6 cores 3.3GHz, turbo up to 3x3.7GHz)
MB: Asus KCMA-D8 (got a crappy sound card with it, will most likely use it until I buy the proper one).
RAM: 32GB PC10600 Registered ECC (got them relatively cheap from work, planned to initially get only 16GB)
VGA: AMD Radeon 6870 (will pull it from my current main PC).
HDD: Seagate 1TB (borrowed a semi working one from work until I buy the 15kRPM one, SSDs are too expensive and with 32GB RAM may not actually be that much faster).
PSU: Corsair HX750 (Nippon Chemi-Con caps FTW, while I can repair broken PC power supplies, I do not want any downtime on my main PC and PSUs with active PFS have a nasty failure mode).
CPU cooler: CM Hyper TX3 EVO (one of the few that would fit and were available for immediate order, they should be OK at least for winter, later I may replace them with old Zalmans (Socket C32 is compatible with Socket 940 coolers))
Case fan: 2x Sunon EE80251B1-000U-G99 - 69.7m^3/h (no, silence is not my main concern)
Case: Chieftec (IIRC) 4U rackmount case (will move an old PC to another rackmount case to free this case for the new PC).

[Honemi]

SSD will almost assuredly be faster even with ridiculous amounts of RAM. Noticeably so. But if you can't afford, you can't afford it.

[Saras]

Well, a RAM cache is faster than an HDD or an SSD. So it depends on how he intends to use the share amount of RAM he has.

[Honemi]

I doubt anyone will be running their OS off a RAMDisk, though. (Ignoring those Puppy Linux users).

That probably matters a lot less in Pentium's case since he's planning to turn this machine into a server anyway.

[Pentium100]

I doubt anyone will be running their OS off a RAMDisk, though. (Ignoring those Puppy Linux users).

That probably matters a lot less in Pentium's case since he's planning to turn this machine into a server anyway.

It won't be a server for a while though.

As for SSD - the main advantage of SSD speed is faster boot (not a problem as I will keep that PC on all the time), and that programs start faster (again, I will probably keep my most used ones launched all the time - I kinda do that now with 3GB RAM). Sore, games would load faster, but an SSD would have negligible effect on FPS. Also, if other programs don't use up all the RAM, Windows will cache most accessed files to the rest of it (probably resulting in a slow PC just after boot and a faster PC a while later). Also, programs that access a lot of data (but not too much) would work faster, but I rarely use those (like video encoding etc).

I think a 15kRPM HDD is a good compromise between an SSD and a 7.2kRPM HDD.

[kitamesume]

i dunno if its a fact but i think an SSD has a major advantage in multi-tasking, imagine dozens of apps accessing the drive all simultaneously.

[Pentium100]

i dunno if its a fact but i think an SSD has a major advantage in multi-tasking, imagine dozens of apps accessing the drive all simultaneously.

Yes, if they all access the drive a lot. SSD would help a lot even if one program was accessing the drive a lot. However, if they don't access the drive a lot, then the advantage of SSD is reduced to just a faster start of the program.

For example, a game usually only accesses the drive a lot when loading a map. SSD would help there. However, after the map is loaded, the drive is usually not accessed a lot, so a SSD would not improve FPS by much. SSD beats a spinning drive a lot in random reads, so even if a program is loading a big file sequentially, a SSD would not help a lot there (not as much as if the access was random).

In my current PC, the hard drive is usually accessed a lot when I run out of RAM. Or a game is loading a level. Or when I open the sound editing software (but I edit sounds rarely).

[kitamesume]

yes indeed, but if its a game like minecraft or dorfs i'm pretty sure an SSD would help, due to the fact that they frequently load/save chunks of their data.

[Pentium100]

yes indeed, but if its a game like minecraft or dorfs i'm pretty sure an SSD would help, due to the fact that they frequently load/save chunks of their data.

OTOH, minecraft (client) runs quite well on my current PC too, so while SSD might speed it up even more, is is fast enough even without it.

[kitamesume]

vanilla minecraft, when set to ultra-far view can make HDDs croak, it load/saves 16x16 chunks in realtime :O
on the other hand, that settings crashes minecraft due to insufficient ram, well its because of the 2048MB ceiling of java.

edit: speaking of heavy HDD games, are there even anything else? although game servers do access the HDD quite often.

[Lillymon]

Handy list earlier in this topic. I'll be putting it here to clear my head and because I could do with some help.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?

Mostly anime viewing, YouTube, and a fuckload of torrenting. Also hoping to do a decent amount of video encoding and at least a bit of low-to-mid range gaming (I've never been a huge PC gamer). I've found before that RAM and hard drive space tend to be the main bottlenecks for me.

2) What's your budget?

A 'hard' £1000. Which actually means a soft £1000, i.e. up to about £1100-1200 if that's what it takes. Ideally though, sticking to £1000 would be best.

3) Which country do you live in?

United Kingdom. Specifically, I recently moved to Stoke-on-Trent.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? (Do not put all, please be specific.)

Motherboard, RAM, CPU, video card, hard disk drive(s), fans, chassis. Effectively an entire tower unit. I could reuse the current chassis but I'd rather keep my current PC intact until my new one is fully up and running.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?

Fortunately, all the peripherals (monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, external FDD) are newer than this PC, so they can all be kept. It's just the tower unit that needs replacement.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I never have before and I don't intend to start now.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor?

1920x1080

8 ) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Maybe later this year but I would prefer to wait until after Christmas, if my current (five year old) PC will oblige.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?

This is a problem. I've been asked this question before and my response was a blank stare. I really don't know. I want a high-end Core i7 CPU and I want 16GB RAM but I don't know what motherboard I'll need for that. So I could do with help on this one as it just stumped me I'm afraid.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?

I use Debian GNU/Linux. I'll burn myself an install DVD grab the applications I need from the repositories. Unless I have hardware support issues (I'll ask other Debian users before making a final decision on components) or this new Secure Boot crap gives me trouble, the OS shouldn't be an issue.

[Saras]

1) What will you be doing with this PC?

Mostly anime viewing, YouTube, and a fuckload of torrenting. Also hoping to do a decent amount of video encoding and at least a bit of low-to-mid range gaming (I've never been a huge PC gamer). I've found before that RAM and hard drive space tend to be the main bottlenecks for me.

You haven't written anything that would warrant anything on the scale of an i7. An 8320 should do you just fine if you want to rely on the CPU to encode, if you're willing to go OpenCL/CUDA go with an APU and a slightly higher than midrange discrete card.

In either case, what you described doesn't really warrant a tower that'd cost 1000GBP.

What concerns torrenting, use your old system for that. Hell, if my Athlon 3000+ is good enough for that, your system will be too. Chuck in a few hard drives and make a nas out of it to boot.

[Honemi]

Use PcPartPickerUK

You want your memory at 1866MHz or more (assuming Haswell). Just pick the cheapest you can find from a reputable site and manufacturer. You should be looking at motherboards with B85 or H87 chipsets. They'll lack some features you don't need since you're not overclocking (like overclocking). A good cheapie is to look at is the ASRock H87M Pro4. Good onboard sound, 6 SATA3 ports, 4 USB3, and 4 DIMM slots. Everything you need?

You probably don't need a R9-280X/7970 or 770 for what you're planning to do. Heck, even a 760 or 7950 may be overboard. I'd take a look at the price of the 760 or 7950, and if it looks like something you could abide, get one of them. Otherwise, look at the 7850 and 650Ti Boost and find the best price among them.

If you got with the 7850/650Ti Boost, you'll only need something like a 450W PSU. Rosewill Capstone, any SeaSonic (and the rebrands of it like XFX's units), and Antec Green Earth series are good. The Corsair RM series looks nice, too. Pick any of them.

If you want one of the higher cards like the 760 or 7950, pick up something at +550W. The above series are good.

Most harddrives have similar performance, but if you do a lot of encoding, WD Blacks may be worth it. Otherwise, anything with 7200RPM is going to be decent.

Pick up a SSD. Look at 240~256 models. The Samsung 840 EVO is the preferred drive at the moment. It offers good performance at a good price.

The Deep Silence 1 is a good case, but if you do a mATX motherboard, you can try looking at mATX cases, too. The Define Mini seems to be a good case.

[Lillymon]

You haven't written anything that would warrant anything on the scale of an i7. An 8320 should do you just fine if you want to rely on the CPU to encode, if you're willing to go OpenCL/CUDA go with an APU and a slightly higher than midrange discrete card.

Well I was going with standard practice of a high-end CPU early on to keep the system relevant for a long time (it's worked twice for me so far), but it's nice to know about other options. What would the price difference between an i7 and the more modest CPU you suggest be do you think?

In either case, what you described doesn't really warrant a tower that'd cost 1000GBP.

If I can get away with less than £1000 that would be very nice, but I had expected my new system to cost about as much as my last one. If it does turn out to be possible though, my mum will love you for it.

What concerns torrenting, use your old system for that. Hell, if my Athlon 3000+ is good enough for that, your system will be too. Chuck in a few hard drives and make a nas out of it to boot.

I don't want to keep my current system running indefinitely, space and noise concerns are pretty prohibitive. I'd like to be doing everything with one system, as I currently am and retire this system (being built in summer 2008 and running almost continuously since with only one minor upgrade and no repairs, I figure it doesn't owe me anything). I do hate just getting rid of old technology, I'd rather reuse everything, but this current system just feels like it's had enough.

Use PcPartPickerUK

You want your memory at 1866MHz or more (assuming Haswell). Just pick the cheapest you can find from a reputable site and manufacturer. You should be looking at motherboards with B85 or H87 chipsets. They'll lack some features you don't need since you're not overclocking (like overclocking). A good cheapie is to look at is the ASRock H87M Pro4. Good onboard sound, 6 SATA3 ports, 4 USB3, and 4 DIMM slots. Everything you need?

Certainly seems like it. I was hoping to switch to onboard sound (I'm currently on a Sound Blaster X-Fi, which seems superfluous to my needs) and the rest is comparable to what I have now, which has proven suitable.

You probably don't need a R9-280X/7970 or 770 for what you're planning to do. Heck, even a 760 or 7950 may be overboard. I'd take a look at the price of the 760 or 7950, and if it looks like something you could abide, get one of them. Otherwise, look at the 7850 and 650Ti Boost and find the best price among them.

If you got with the 7850/650Ti Boost, you'll only need something like a 450W PSU. Rosewill Capstone, any SeaSonic (and the rebrands of it like XFX's units), and Antec Green Earth series are good. The Corsair RM series looks nice, too. Pick any of them.

If you want one of the higher cards like the 760 or 7950, pick up something at +550W. The above series are good.

This is a lot of jargon at once, you might want to slow down a bit.

Most harddrives have similar performance, but if you do a lot of encoding, WD Blacks may be worth it. Otherwise, anything with 7200RPM is going to be decent.

Yeah, I think I want to prioritize capacity and reliability over speed. I'm currently using a pair of 1TB HDDs and was looking at a pair of 4GB HDDs for my new build. Some may call it excessive, I say there's no such thing with HDDs, especially with 100-150GB torrents at this site.

Pick up a SSD. Look at 240~256 models. The Samsung 840 EVO is the preferred drive at the moment. It offers good performance at a good price.

Everyone seems to say this. Everyone. I've been sceptical so far but if this build does prove cheaper than I'm expecting then I'll have some money left over for this. Why are SSDs such a good idea? What improvement would I see with one? I'm open to the idea, but I need a good reason to make the leap.

The Deep Silence 1 is a good case, but if you do a mATX motherboard, you can try looking at mATX cases, too. The Define Mini seems to be a good case.

Small is good I suppose. The case is really unimportant. I keep my tower unit in a closed cupboard in my desk so I hardly every look at. It's very much a case of functionality over looks.

[Saras]

You haven't written anything that would warrant anything on the scale of an i7. An 8320 should do you just fine if you want to rely on the CPU to encode, if you're willing to go OpenCL/CUDA go with an APU and a slightly higher than midrange discrete card.

Well I was going with standard practice of a high-end CPU early on to keep the system relevant for a long time (it's worked twice for me so far), but it's nice to know about other options. What would the price difference between an i7 and the more modest CPU you suggest be do you think?

In either case, what you described doesn't really warrant a tower that'd cost 1000GBP.

If I can get away with less than £1000 that would be very nice, but I had expected my new system to cost about as much as my last one. If it does turn out to be possible though, my mum will love you for it.

What concerns torrenting, use your old system for that. Hell, if my Athlon 3000+ is good enough for that, your system will be too. Chuck in a few hard drives and make a nas out of it to boot.

I don't want to keep my current system running indefinitely, space and noise concerns are pretty prohibitive. I'd like to be doing everything with one system, as I currently am and retire this system (being built in summer 2008 and running almost continuously since with only one minor upgrade and no repairs, I figure it doesn't owe me anything). I do hate just getting rid of old technology, I'd rather reuse everything, but this current system just feels like it's had enough.

Use PcPartPickerUK

You want your memory at 1866MHz or more (assuming Haswell). Just pick the cheapest you can find from a reputable site and manufacturer. You should be looking at motherboards with B85 or H87 chipsets. They'll lack some features you don't need since you're not overclocking (like overclocking). A good cheapie is to look at is the ASRock H87M Pro4. Good onboard sound, 6 SATA3 ports, 4 USB3, and 4 DIMM slots. Everything you need?

Certainly seems like it. I was hoping to switch to onboard sound (I'm currently on a Sound Blaster X-Fi, which seems superfluous to my needs) and the rest is comparable to what I have now, which has proven suitable.

You probably don't need a R9-280X/7970 or 770 for what you're planning to do. Heck, even a 760 or 7950 may be overboard. I'd take a look at the price of the 760 or 7950, and if it looks like something you could abide, get one of them. Otherwise, look at the 7850 and 650Ti Boost and find the best price among them.

If you got with the 7850/650Ti Boost, you'll only need something like a 450W PSU. Rosewill Capstone, any SeaSonic (and the rebrands of it like XFX's units), and Antec Green Earth series are good. The Corsair RM series looks nice, too. Pick any of them.

If you want one of the higher cards like the 760 or 7950, pick up something at +550W. The above series are good.

This is a lot of jargon at once, you might want to slow down a bit.

Most harddrives have similar performance, but if you do a lot of encoding, WD Blacks may be worth it. Otherwise, anything with 7200RPM is going to be decent.

Yeah, I think I want to prioritize capacity and reliability over speed. I'm currently using a pair of 1TB HDDs and was looking at a pair of 4GB HDDs for my new build. Some may call it excessive, I say there's no such thing with HDDs, especially with 100-150GB torrents at this site.

Pick up a SSD. Look at 240~256 models. The Samsung 840 EVO is the preferred drive at the moment. It offers good performance at a good price.

Everyone seems to say this. Everyone. I've been sceptical so far but if this build does prove cheaper than I'm expecting then I'll have some money left over for this. Why are SSDs such a good idea? What improvement would I see with one? I'm open to the idea, but I need a good reason to make the leap.

The Deep Silence 1 is a good case, but if you do a mATX motherboard, you can try looking at mATX cases, too. The Define Mini seems to be a good case.

Small is good I suppose. The case is really unimportant. I keep my tower unit in a closed cupboard in my desk so I hardly every look at. It's very much a case of functionality over looks.

Here. For all intents and purposes, that's pretty much a high-spec gaming rig. http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/1W6Vn
To add to that, I don't really see any real reason why'd you'd need the 7950, a 250 gig SSD or 16 gigs of ram.

The haswell i7 costs about twice what 8320 costs. What concerns encoding, the only thing your system will do that's CPU intensive. The difference in performance is less than 20%. Current intel motherboards are also more expensive.

The 7950 is pretty much a gaming card that will max out everything at 1080p. For "light gaming", you can basically cut down to something like a 7850/650ti without any real worries. Saving about 100 quid again.

An SSD doesn't add anything at all, what concerns performance. What it however does, is make you less pissed off at your system for it feeling slow. You're not going to get a single extra FPS out of it, what you will get is the feeling of a computer that's running really fast and is responsive. If that is not important to you, feel free to chuck it out altogether and get some 4-6 tb of space instead. You can also cut back down to a ~120 gig model. Now that I think about it, you probably should, as it doesn't seem like you'd be keeping a lot of games on the os drive. However, you should keep the 250 one if you feel like gaming a lot.

16gigs of ram, is imo, overkill. Especially if you do stick with the SSD, quite frankly it's fast enough to where using a bit of page file if by the off chance you ever do run out of the 8 gigs won't be too much of an issue. Halving the price again.

Feel free to use the extra cash on space. Feel free to chuck out anything for a cheaper alternative.

To be perfectly honest, for what you described. You could pretty much get something that's good enough for less than 600 quid. If you aren't going super enthusiast. There really isn't that much of a reason to go for a really powerfull system nowadays. The rate of progress in a lot of the things has slowed down quite a lot. Quite frankly, a pc built three years ago with a 2600K and something like a 580 is still basically top of the line, what concerns the average user.

Also, final thing. What concerns performance. You're better off building a 600 quid rig now and another 600 quid one 3 years down the line, rather than spending a grand now. An extra 40% over that is not going to give you an extra 40% in performance.